Informal Art Poll

A vote here for option 1 as well.

As for the non-animated tails... No, I currently do not use them on any of my current characters. HOWEVER, I have used them for characters who did not have a real tail, like say a normal human girl dressing as a catgirl for a costume party. Her tail isn't real, so it should be stiff! As also mentioned earlier, I'd like to see the shorter (curled, chopped, whatever you want to call them), non-animated tails added back. The ones you got with trench coats, the bolero, etc. If we had those again, I would be using one of them in place of an animated tail because, simply, the animated one clips like crazy with the magic bolero and the long non-animated one isn't much better.

I personally prefer option 2, at least at first. It's difficult to predict exactly what people use costume pieces for, after all.

If, over time, it becomes clear that no one uses costume piece X anymore, then you can start combing out the legacy pieces.

However... for just updated textures? Option 1 isn't -so- bad.

bAss!

I'd go for option one - sharpen up the textures on the old stuff, and don't clutter up the menus with un-needed sub-menus.

I vote for Option 2. I would much rather have to scroll through extra options rather than having options taken away. Option 1 wouldn't necessarily ruin the game for me, but it would lock whatever toon is using the legacy pieces into that look forever.

To answer one of your earlier questions, my main toon still uses the unanimated cat tail because he is locked into several legacy options on the face. The original glowing eyes face with the short/sharp pointy ears just can't be reproduced with the newer stuff. If I had those old options back I'd switch to the animated tail in a heartbeat though.

This is why I'll always vote for Option 2 in any poll such as this one.

Option 1 please.

Cheers

Any chance we'll see the first fruits of this labor in i19? What about the conversion of enemy costume piece for player use?

Option 2

I'd like to see the menus reorganized a bit with more subcategories in place regardless, so I don't think that is development time wasted nor just for this very dynamic of updating textures.

Here's my reason for going with option 2:
While some pieces may be completely the same, but better detail, any additional/new detail basically changes what already existed.
It's unavoidable.
What is less detailed now (Or even possibly blury) leaves some doors open as to what exactly the piece/fabric/source may be. And this allows greater imagination to take form.
I think those original headband wings are a great example.
Yes, they can be fixed up.
However, it is how an artist goes about doing it that would tell if Option 1 or 2 were better, because if they were made to look more like those (great) valkyrie head wings, then they no longer can pass for anything else. The lack of etching detail in those original wings allows them to be used as a few different ideas, perhaps not even metal wings.

I completely understand, as an artist's viewpoint, you'd rather have the best quality representation of each and every of these concepts... However, we know the reality is that you cannot cover each and every concept for each and every piece someone could imagine putting together for these costumes.
The desired community rule has always been, add, do not replace and I see no reason to vote against that in this case.

While the forum rules say we're not supposed to discuss other video games anymore... This is a classic case of it being valuable to do so.
A game I played a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away... once "upgraded" the player character textures... While all they did was "give greater detailed textures" it completely (completely) changed the way many existing player characters looked.
It took some characters and made them appear as though the actor that had played that character for the past 3 years had been replaced with another actor.
I have pictures/screenshots that I could send you, if you wish.
Sure, they had new and better detailed textures... But you replaced Nathan Fillian with Adam Sandler.
Regardless of who/what someone else might prefer... when it is the character that you've come to love for years... that's not cool.

I highly suggest you shoot for Option 2.

As someone else said... even the tank top example... When people use the tank top on tights... sometimes people use it as a color pattern on their tights.... sometimes people use it as a separate layer of tights and others may use it as an actual tank top over tights.
If you make it clearly a tank top over tights, it is no longer flexible and cancels out two other options people have been using all this time.

It's not worth it. Go with option 2 and maybe get the UI team to work on more submenus as you do it, because those would already be a welcome development in the tailor screen anyway.

It's not that I don't trust your artistic ability and careful eye to make things right... But it is just reality that different is different... and better detail becomes more defined... and more defined means less wiggle room and less wiggle room means less pieces to use for varied concepts.

Either way, best of luck, David!
I do love the job that you do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Valkyrja I'm voting Option 1. And I concur with Bill about the pieces that have associated patterns, that specific pieces pattern should be at the top of the list not the bottom. It's rather annoying to select Bio-Organic head/chest/etc and the have to scroll to the bottom of the pattern list for Bio-Organic.

I think someone else beat me to it, but just in case, you can just hit backwards and go right to the last detail option. That's how I go to those specific options.

Also, on non-animated tails, I have to admit that I was surprised there was not a non-animated tail option for the wolf tail that came with the Mutant Booster Pack.
The non-animated tails work great for fake costume animal tails (And probably for some other costume ideas for other people).
I had thought about putting the non-animated wolf tail on a hunter type that had it hanging off their belt as a bit of a trophy decoration.

Just another example of how older stuff isn't always worse. And a bit of a request for a non-animated wolf tail

I prefer option 1, as long as we're not talking dramatic changes (like altering the neckline, sleeve length - stuff like that). If the overall shape/structure is staying the same, but it is getting finer detail, I think that's the way to go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noble Savage Possible grist for the mill: --non-animated tails were left in Costume Creator when Animated Tails were added. Do any of you use the non-moving ones at this point?

And this is where I think the old items should stay. Some people use stationary tails intentionally as they have designed their toon as 'someone wearing a costume' rather than 'someone who has a tail'. As the most extreme example - the vast majority of those using the bunny tail intend it as a 'costume' item and not an actual tail.

I don't think there are huge numbers who use the other stationary tails intentionally but, for those who do, having only an animated tail completely destroys their concept.

I vote for option 1.

I do not see a need to have older textures in the game if they are not needed. If all that is happening to the costumes is a graphic makeover than I really don't see why this is even being presented as a question.

Now if the costumes were going through a design makeover, I would then go for option 2 and then have the option for legacy, silver age, or what ever you all choose to call it.

I'd say option one. Stuff like the 'Psyche' pattern is just, horrifically ugly versus some of the new, sleeker options with modern tech/knowhow.

I'd rather the old ones be updated into cleaner versions than have two of everything. Steampunk for example is gritty, looks like it's 32 bit or something... I cant imagine many people wanting stuff that looks like it's made in a sprite editor, even if it is 'legacy'

Option 2 sounds best.

I've already had costumes "just right", then after an update logged that character in to find one of the costume pieces no longer matching the feel of the rest of the costume because it stands out like a sore thumb with its super reflectiveness, when I was going for an overall leather look for example.

Having the option to continue using the old costume version would have been very helpful in quite a few cases already.

Edit: I now read the rest of the thread and see that metalic finishes would be considered seperate. As for just older blurry textures that do not match the new higher quality ones, sure, option 1 seems fine.

It is when changing geometry, like when we lost the good ol' thigh high boots for the new ones, where I think it hurts to lose the old versions, but blurry textures I can't think of a reason to keep.

Also, I do use the non animated version of a few tails on a few characters. On one large cat character, the new tail looks very tiny compared to the original with his large frame, and looks more like a little noodle, the old tail is larger and looks more like a tail in spite of it's bent straw look. He is also more reserved and not likely to have his tail lash about. But it is the exception, most have the new tail versions.

I down for option one. Why wouldn't people want the same costume part SAME with BETTER textures. Just do it to make the costumes up to date with the world thats being updated.

I've been waiting for updates to the old hair styles since the new ones have been added and I'd love to see updates to the old costume pieces also. In my opinion, the only way to do this right would be add new updated pieces while keeping the "Legacy" pieces as well. That way, everyone wins. We get our new updated costume pieces and we still get to keep the old ones as well.

NS,

As an art director who has to go through the whole "client approval" process, I applaud you for taking on the frustrating idea of doing the "committee approval" route. And committees are good at one thing, not agreeing on anything.

I'm going to say Option 1. Take the old art, remaster (but not change) and replace the low-res pieces that clash with the cleanness of the rest of the game. And let's face facts, cluttered menus do nothing to help the player experience.

I'm glad you want to hear the player base opinions, it's what makes you a fitting part of the dev team. But in the end, I hope you go with what YOU consider to be the right thing. You're going to get complaints no matter what you do, so stay true to your design philosophy.

Either way, can't wait to see some remastered costume pieces!

I vote Option 1, especially if it means updated textures on old medieval armor (and not metallic which would ruin the well-worn look)

I prefer Option 1, but only if the art team tried their hardest to keep it as similar to the original as possible, just using higher quality textures. A perfect example of this would be the Head Option for the legacy Wings and the newer Valkyrie Wings. The only reason I mention this is because when they legacy hair options were updated there were a few styles that varied a little too much from the originals. If this were to happen again, I would request that you be sent to the Master Control Program for immediate deresolution. Just sayin'.

Option 1. Scrolling through some costume sections is already getting to the point of ridiculousness. You can't please everyone and I'm all for the 'greater good' aspect.

I'm voting for OPTION 2

The "cleaner menu" argument doesn't hold water; even with option 1 you need to clean up the menus, they're a disaster.

It's more about how people use the legacy items (remember the base beaker stand?). Sometimes, the lack of texture actually works to the advantage . Yes, a bikini with "real strings" would be great, but then it would destroy the "bare" illusion I can get when I put it under an open jacket, like so:



As for the tails... I have not "upgraded" to the animated ones. I find them a little distracting.

And as a side note on hair.... I was VERY disappointed not to be able to use 2 colors for my resistance hair. Shading is all well and good, but I love the ability to use 2 colors to get a unique (and sometimes more realistic) hair color.

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I've got to say that the new "Tank Top" on females, which clearly has stitching around the edges and very detailed straps, looked very nice on one of my characters, and I switched right to it on her. It just seemed to fit with her look perfectly. So adding that kind of detail to some of the existing Tops with Skin designs really seems like a good idea to me.

On the other hand, I can see where some folks might want the "body paint" option as an actual body paint option. Or at the very least, some sort of material that wouldn't have seams and would look skin tight. So honestly, I think the best solution would be a sort of combination of 1 and 2, replace the option where it is obviously an improvement graphically over the original, but keep the original (or even improve it) if there's a conceptual difference.

I suspect Tops with Skin is where the duplicates would show up most often just on principle.

As for non-animated tails, I would say definately leave them, for instances where that animation is going to be mutually exclusive with something else. I believe you can mix a tail with wings or a cape (I hope this means one day the animated hair and butt cape combo of Ghost Widow becomes available for players ) but I don't know if trenchcoats (and butt capes, for that matter) can be combined with tails.

Anyway, in some case a non-animated tail can be better than no tail at all, just as the non-glowing Glowing Eyes face option, even though it's not better than a Glowing Eyes aura, is better than no glowing eyes at all, and can be combined with other auras.

6 years playing this game, hours creating toons, tweaking costumes and you guys still think we need sub-menus and stuff? I got all memorized!
I also want devs to take hair "to the next level" (WW favourite phrase) and they give us animated hair like Belladonna Vetrano. I got a crush on her