Tweets of the PAX Panel

Your absolutely right, but knowledgeable players getting the word out that people looking for 3 filler powers that cost no slots and benefit you solo* and especially teamed will improve penetration.
*solo benefit comes from either sticking in 2 lotg's and/or activating tactics when perception/tohit debuffed.

Veng makes everyone within a country mile flash bright red for 2 min. The 'wow' factor of veng is just fine. It's not inferno, but it is better than most powers.
That isn't a fault of vengeance it is a fault of assault/manuev/tactics being 'boring'. The stats on veng are eye popping and the description is easily enticing enough to be desirable. Much more so than many other powers and probably more so than any other power pool pick.

"The loss of a comrade enrages the team. When a teammate is defeated in combat, activate this power to grant you and your teammates a bonus to chance to hit, Damage and Defense to all attacks. A Vengeful team has no fear, and Vengeance protects you and your Teammates from Fear effects. It also gives you and your team great resistance to Sleep, Hold, Disorient, Immobilize, Confuse, Taunt, Placate and Knockback. You must be at least level 20 and have two other Leadership Powers before selecting Vengeance. This power does not stack with multiple castings."

Maybe. Veng, much like stamina is the jewel of the set that requires 2 'boring' powers to unlock. Hardly anyone takes it because common conception is that you need stamina and most people pick 1-2 addition travel related power pools (ie leaping+hasten), or flight, or whatever. The simple fact is that many builds lack the room for 3 leadership powers and just picking 1 or 2 out of the pool isn't a great return for most AT's.

What is a 'meaningful amount' though? after this change there will be 9 power pools to choose from. If I'm saying you really only need 1/8 players on a team to get this improvement (though more is always better) and you have a 1/9 shot of picking leadership as a power pool... Random distribution of players amongst the existing power pools supports what I'm saying. People looking for 3 powers that require no additional slots supports what I'm saying in favor of some of the other more demanding power pools. And even people looking to min/max solo supports what I'm saying as you gain 2 lotg slots and a perception buff that supports one's toon in situations that might otherwise defeat you (though admittedly concealment probably gives the best solo return for no slots).

Like I said, I wouldn't have said what I did if it wasn't so easy to back up

=O_O=

Woohoo! \m/=>_<=\m/


Hmm, so Regens could have level 1 or 2 Stamina, then Quick Recovery at 4? =o_O=

It's both. Tighter on slots and looser on power picks. It is a good thing though for the most part. I mean the respec process is pretty bad, so there is that headache that will affect different people in varying amounts.

I'd like to lend my support to the idea of a dynamic mode respec. Also I'd like a quick respec mode where it opens your hold build as it is and you can work backwords where if you take away a slot it sticks the enhancement down into the storage tray. So it is more like when you open up mids and tweak with an already complete build.

Same issue at play as the old Defender Vigilance I think.

Folks don't like powers that reward you when you 'fail'.

I personally don't take it on my MM even though I have the requisite power selections for leadership anyway, for that reason.

If it helps think of it as slot crunch. Less slots to use per power. I'm not sure how much slot crunch will impact "casual players" and people that just use SOs, but people that attempt to squeeze the maximum performance from every slot will definitely notice it.

But I think that is a good thing. It will force people like me to look at our builds in different ways to see how best to take advantage of suddenly having three more powers. When making builds like that, every slot is important. Personally I welcome it with open arms.

I'm going to enjoy the challenge.

Well really, it's only tighter on slots in that you're defining slot 'tightenness' as a straight slots/powers ratio, which means be definition those two states are going to move in opposite directions. Oddly enough that also makes for the scenario where if they just added two free Anywhere slots, that would result in power diversity, relative to powers/slot would decrease. Probably why the slots/power isn't a good measure to look at in this regard. At least it is for me.

I think its funny how people assume that when someone says 'tighter build' that it is a complaint. Can't it simply be an observation?

Quite simply you have less slots to use per power. As far as slotting goes, it is a tighter build. That is a fact. However, I don't see that as a bad thing. Primarily because there are so many other benefits to three more powers, including the LoTG IOs you mentioned.

I've been part of an ad hoc organization dedicated to making everyone in the game rich since I9 added the market to the game. We even have our own forum.

We've succeeded so spectacularly that the devs have to keep thinking up new ways to hand out rewards because too many player can't be arsed to print their own money using our detailed instructions and buy them on the market.


You can proselytize all you want, people won't take a power they don't want to just because it's good.


people have to take it, get on a team, have someone die, remember they have it and fire it off for that to happen.

That's about three steps further than most players are willing to travel for a payoff.

You haven't backed up anything, you've just explained why it makes sense for people to take Vengeance.

I'm not disagreeing it's a good idea, I'm saying they're simply not going to do it.

I will gladly be vengeance fodder for any team I'm on. Or you could just invite a blaster.

HEY!!

I posted like 5 or 6 times (that all happened to be in a row, because I was responding to people) and I posted "so much" when guys like TamakiRevolution and NiceTry (no offense, just that you've posted a lot NT) posted about 20 times or so, ok, sure that makes sense.

Obviously they know what their ACTUAL player base wants, because they've done nothing but GIVE us what we wanted since they took over from Crypic. Perhaps not immedeatly, and not everything, but there's no denying that's what they did

It wasn't done "six years ago" because of the Jack Emmert/Cryptic era and his enforced "vision" people weren't supposed to *need* Stamina, they used it when they didn't have a "perfect" team with one of every AT and a few extra meleer's and blasters.

They're not "waiting and rationing anything out for "god knows how long". It's no different than I1s clearing up issues from launch, i7 clearing up issues from CoV's release. But what do you know you like PvP, you covered the issue right there in your own post.

You aren't the only one who has to 'find their end-game content elsewhere for the time being' we ALL do. In your case, you futely "bang on the walls of Reality" in favor of PvP, while I just RP and create new characters and ideas. Once Incarnate starts to materialize, we'll have "end game content." Wait, or get out.

They attempted to "fix" PvP by inviting 90% of the "PvP Community" into serveral beta's, most of which I was present in, so I watched how they acted. They ran rampant over the other discussions, willfully broke the NDA, and generally acted like 5 year olds, and/or bulls in a china shop depending on how you look at it. It was SO bad that after that, betas got a heck of a lot smaller, and less people were asked in. Ex Libris and Lighthouse worked very hard to try to work with and appease a minority that frankly never should've existed to any real extent beyond an afterthought in this game anyway, and all they got for it was crap. Enough so that both are no longer with us (probably moreso in LH's case than Ex's). It was repeatedly thrown at them that they failed to actually test anything and/or work within the framework of what the Devs decided needed to be done. They left wiggle room, but the PvPers would have none of it, and this is what they ended up with. Nothing.

To an extent, we're all "paying guests" in the Dev's vision of the game. They've given a lot of "wiggle room" on a lot of things, many of them things we directly asked for: Power Customization, Inherant Fitness, Beginner's Luck, Villain access to APPs, side-switching, more moral choices and sub-factions in Praetorian Content. Incarnates. Safeguards. I could keep going, but I doubt it would sink in. It's true that if you ignore your subscribers, you lose customers, to a large extent they've not done that, they've only ignored the ones that earned it, or didn't frankly matter. I'm a heavy RPer too. I want an enforced RP server and more name policy enforcement,clickable chairs, a lying down emote like Bobcat's. I also don't expect them to give me everything I want, because I'm a minority who doesn't matter as much as the majority.

When you act like that, that's what you get. To clarify: I spoke in broad terms. I know that not ALL PvPers acted this way, or act this way, but a large majority of them *at the time* did exactly this. It cast the entire group/community/subculture/whatever in a negative light that will likey persist until the day CoH's servers shut down. Serves them right.

I actually do PvP on occasion on Virtue, and am not half bad at it. It's a side mini-game, not a focus of CoH, it never will be.

Deal.

This is the last I'm saying on this particular subsection of a topic, it's been covered. Let's move on.

He said that the change makes tight builds tighter. Which is not true.

The change does not force you to distribute your slots any differently than you do now. There are many powers that are useful with zero additional slots.

For a build to become tighter with this change, it will only become so if the player chooses to change the way they distribute their slots.

I think this pretty much sums up why people min/max and don't like to RP.


this really doesn't mean anything. since assuming you're talking about a tank, since you mentioned RPD, all you need to pvp is taunt and hp.

*shrugs* Takes more than that, to do anything with a Tank, PvP or otherwise if you're halfway decent at it; but as I've come to realize, 4 out of 10 Tanks suck and 5 out of 10 are marginally competent. I'm the other 1 out of 10. Again, PvP is a mini-game to me (and likely most everyone else, if they even do it at all). It's possible to be an RPer AND a Min/Maxer. Within reason, my build is pushed to it's utmost, because it *is* part of my character's concept, by the same token though I won't do something "just because" character is king, and all must fit in that framework. Doesn't make your view of the game wrong, just different than my own.

I didn't think you would be the type of person that would fail to see the difference between learning and utilizing the market and clicking a single power while playing. It is what it is though. Especially when you consider that this game is almost entirely combat focused. Many people don't want to take any time away from that to earn stuff, no matter how 'easy' it is.

I haven't insisted otherwise, this again is you making an argument against something that wasn't said, just like earlier where you guys were attacking imaginary people that said this change was negative.

I'm saying random distribution of people choosing new power pools is almost enough to satisfy my statement. Add to that people that seek to improve their gameplay by a large amount with minimal investment and voila.


The thing is while we both believe the average player isn't very intelligent, I don't believe they are quite as stupid as you depict.

The notion of tackling +3's with the ease of +1's is tantalizing enough where I think even the most - as you describe them - 'stupid' players can be convinced. Luckily they don't have to be though to satisfy what I said.

Also, people die in this game...all the time. If they aren't dying then guess what you don't need to click vengeance. But you can turn around and suggest you tackle arachnos next mission for fun and when they gripe you say 'don't worry' it will be fine. And it will be. Fun.

ok. I'm not going to explain it again or go over why the simple math supports what I'm saying, or why simply rationality supports what I'm saying. You have made the decision to go into the infamous 'goat mode' where nothing is going to get through. That's fine.

it really doesn't. taunt and webnadez/fossilze. its pretty amazing how stupidly easy it is to pvp with one (and by extension, every other AT)


as for your OP, i got the impression that you were infact implying that that way of play was wrong, rather that we are all idiots for not having a concept and Rping.

It must be a perception thing. I have 67 slots to add now, and I'll have 67 slots to add when I19 goes live. I put the slots where I think they'll do the most good, knowing that I'm not going to be able to fill up every power with the maximum useful slots. As far as I'm concerned, placing the slots won't be any tighter or looser than it is now, and I'll have more options to work with.

OR

The change does not force you distribute your slots the same way you do now. There are many powers that are next to useless with zero additional slots.

For a build to not become tighter with this change, it will not become so only if the player chooses not to change the way they distribute their slots.


See, I can use spin to make irrelevant points too.

Except you can put the same slots in the same powers as now, which means that no build will be tighter. The addition of three power choices doesn't mean you have to rob slots from your current build to slot them.

edit: this change is an unqualified boon.

Then you are projecting. Though the more you go on, the closer I get...

time to go do something else, I think.

*goes to play Ma...err..a sci-fi SP RPG.*

I'm not saying its a bad thing at all. I'm simply saying one has less slots per power, that is how I defined tighter build. To me the term 'tighter build' is simply an observation, it is neither negative or positive by itself.

In this case I think it's a good thing because, like you said, we'll have more options.

I think people are getting hung up on the term 'tighter build' and automatically associating that as a negative. Which it's not a bad thing, at least in this case.

Actually you will have 71 slots. The base slots in those extra powers count to.

Oh look, you can swap positive for negative in a sentence. Now that you've demonstrated some grasp of language, can you actually make an intelligent argument?