Yeah, Blasters really don't have any Natural-type secondary. Devices is the closest thing, and that's a pretty hard-core Technology set.
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Yes this has been suggested before and it's still a great idea IMHO. Katana or Dual Blades would also be good, since we have Archery. The sets might need tweaking to fit the blaster model, but that doesn't seem like it'd be hard to do.
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Originally Posted by streetlight
Isn't it about time Blasters got something that fits a "Natural" origin a bit better? Martial Arts is a melee set that seems perfect for a Blaster secondary. Has there ever been any discussion on this?
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It's been suggested, and shot down, multiple times because it's a horrible idea made by players that don't have the first clue about what the blaster secondary sets are designed for.
The developers have never said "never" to doing a martial arts themed manipulation set. Then again, the developers rarely say "never" to anything.
They have, however, expressed the opinion that the melee heavy Energy Manipulation is an aberration within the blaster secondary sets and, and that any future manipulation sets will be based more on the Psionic Manipulation model with limited straight melee attacks, more ranged attacks, and a greater focus on soft-controls. It has been stated that due to the cottage rule, Energy Manipulation won't likely be revamped to make it into more of a manipulation set.
The developers have also indicated in the past that blasters will not be receiving any native damage reduction powers outside of Epic / Patron pools, nor will blaster's be receiving any anti-mez powers outside of the current Defiance model.
So, if you can come up with a manipulation set that only has at most three straight damage attacks, at least one ranged attack, maybe a weak stun / damage pbaoe, some soft control, has an immobilize for the first power that has to be taken, and includes build-up, then hey, feel free to pitch something that features a punch and a kick at it's base.
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This is almost Martial Arts, as it is. |
Originally Posted by je_saist
So, if you can come up with a manipulation set that only has at most three straight damage attacks, at least one ranged attack, maybe a weak stun / damage pbaoe, some soft control, has an immobilize for the first power that has to be taken, and includes build-up, then hey, feel free to pitch something that features a punch and a kick at it's base.
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three straight damage attacks - Thunder Kick, Storm Kick, Crane Kick
at least one ranged attack - um... Hadouken!
maybe a weak stun - Cobra Strike
damage pbaoe - Dragon's Tail
some soft control - Eagle Claw
has an immobilize for the first power that has to be taken - Crippling Axe Kick
and includes build-up - Focus Chi
I haven't seen the idea ever shot down, and there are plenty of ways to make such a set work. I have also seen a lot of interest in the idea. Seriously, je saist, you can state your opinion, but you state your opinion like it's the hand of god speaking and there is not room for debate. Ever.
Personally, I'd love to see this. Blasters need another secondary, and I think this would be the best and most obvious choice to add in (not to mention that it should be fairly easy, since you could grab a lot of existing powers to make it work).
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Originally Posted by HeroJunkie
Yes this has been suggested before and it's still a great idea IMHO. Katana or Dual Blades would also be good, since we have Archery. The sets might need tweaking to fit the blaster model, but that doesn't seem like it'd be hard to do.
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The only issue with having weapon sets as a secondary for Blasters would be redraw. It's a BIG issue though, I'm afraid. Really wouldn't be worth the time invested due to the outcry from players forced to redraw constantly.
Martial Arts on the other hand might be interesting. Blaster secondaries are indeed lacking. It could be turned into more of a mitigation set and less damage pretty routinely. Personally I'd prefer a Radiation or Sonic secondary though.
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Kinda harsh. Not only is it really easy to make a Martial Arts type secondary that isn't just all punching/kicking for blasters, but I don't think the developers are against the idea. Haven't you played in Praetoria yet? 90% of the Resistance members you play with (I'm not sure about against) use Assault Rifle/Energy Manipulation.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
It's been suggested, and shot down, multiple times because it's a horrible idea made by players that don't have the first clue about what the blaster secondary sets are designed for.
The developers have never said "never" to doing a martial arts themed manipulation set. Then again, the developers rarely say "never" to anything. They have, however, expressed the opinion that the melee heavy Energy Manipulation is an aberration within the blaster secondary sets and, and that any future manipulation sets will be based more on the Psionic Manipulation model with limited straight melee attacks, more ranged attacks, and a greater focus on soft-controls. It has been stated that due to the cottage rule, Energy Manipulation won't likely be revamped to make it into more of a manipulation set. The developers have also indicated in the past that blasters will not be receiving any native damage reduction powers outside of Epic / Patron pools, nor will blaster's be receiving any anti-mez powers outside of the current Defiance model. So, if you can come up with a manipulation set that only has at most three straight damage attacks, at least one ranged attack, maybe a weak stun / damage pbaoe, some soft control, has an immobilize for the first power that has to be taken, and includes build-up, then hey, feel free to pitch something that features a punch and a kick at it's base. |
Why do you think it is that they all use Energy Manipulation? Because it looks like ordinary hand-to-hand fighting aside from the glow.
It could easily look something like:
Crane Kick (Knockback Kick)
Storm Kick (Damage Kick)
Dragon Tail (AoE Kick)
Focus Chi/Build Up
Concentration (+ToHit/Perception/Range toggle)
Cobra Strike (Stunning Punch)
Intimidating Gaze (Cone Fear)
Resurgent Chi(?) (Recover Endurance, AoE Disorient)
Eagle's Claw (Slow Damage Attack)
I don't think a straight port of MA would work well, but if you grabbed a few MA abilities and a few of the Ninjitsu abilities (the utility stuff, not the +def) and then filled in the blanks, then you might have something worth checking into.
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Conceptually it sound like a great idea! I'd love to run a DP/MA blaster but I think Ninja/MA hybrid might be an easier one to adapt. Give players a few MA strikes and a few ranged attackes with poisoned throwing stars to cover any ranged control effects.
Also I wish they would break the mold a little bit more often personally I hate having a single started immobilize in a set that has caltrops which I feel does a much better job keeping foes away from me.
A Martial Arts-like set, sure. Martial Arts itself with anything like its current numbers would be pretty overpowered on a Blaster, wouldn't it?
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WTF is this ******* thing I see all the time that assumes blasters aren't blooming allowed to have good damage powers?
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
A Martial Arts-like set, sure. Martial Arts itself with anything like its current numbers would be pretty overpowered on a Blaster, wouldn't it?
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
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Threw this together only because I agree. Tear it apart all you want, let's get it "perfect" and then submit it for consideration! I know, I know "Boo! No Buildup!". I just want it to be very unique.
| Focused Strike | 1 | Melee, Minor DMG(Smash), Foe Disorient |
| Distract | 2 | Ranged Foe Confuse (Mag 1 very short duration) -DEF |
| Body Kick | 4 | Melee, Moderate DMG(Smash), Foe Knockback |
| Keen Sight | 10 | Toggle: Self +To-Hit, +Perception, +Range |
| Sweep Kick | 16 | Melee PBAoE Moderate DMG (Smash) Knockdown, Foe Disorient |
| First Strike | 20 | Auto: Self+Special (Undamaged enemies get double[?] damage) |
| Quickness | 28 | Auto: Self +Res (-Recharge, -SPD), +Recharge, +SPD |
| Blinding Powder | 35 | Ranged (Cone), Foe Sleep, Confuse, -To-Hit, -Perception |
| Vital Blow | 38 | Melee, Superior DMG(Smash), Foe Hold |
No build up is fine with me I like it when the power sets are unqiue. Cookie cutter power sets are dull.
Edit:
I like that is start off with a melee strike rather then an single target immobilize but I think Disorient is probably a bit strong for a 1st tier secondary. Usually you are doing pretty good to have a sleep move or a knock back.
I think you should add percentage change for some of these secondary effects to trigger. For example:
| Focused Strike | 1 | Melee, Minor DMG(Smash), Foe Disorient 20% chance |
| Distract | 2 | Ranged Foe Confuse (Mag 1 very short duration) -DEF |
| Body Kick | 4 | Melee, Moderate DMG(Smash), Foe Knockback 50% |
etc. etc.
I still think Dominators need a "natural" set way more than Blasters. Gun-fu anyone? A mix of Dual Pistols and Martial Arts fit into an Assault model?
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I that would be good but what primary would that go with?
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Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
I still think Dominators need a "natural" set way more than Blasters. Gun-fu anyone? A mix of Dual Pistols and Martial Arts fit into an Assault model?
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I dunno. But at least Dominators will have ONE natural option. Blasters already have Devices, Pistols, Rifles, and Archery.
Originally Posted by Mr_Frost
I that would be good but what primary would that go with?
Dominators literally have zero natural powers.
Besides, a Mind Manipulation/Pistol Assault would be perfect for my particular character concept! 
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I'd rather see a Gun Blade Assault powerset--a pistol in one hand and a katana in the other. |
Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
I still think Dominators need a "natural" set way more than Blasters. Gun-fu anyone? A mix of Dual Pistols and Martial Arts fit into an Assault model?
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Then again, you can't really complain about the lack of natural secondary powers on an AT that has no natural primary powers...
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
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/Energy Manipulation fits a natural theme very well, too. Just take BU, Boost Range, Power Boost, and Conserve Energy. You'd have to argue skipping Aim if those wouldn't work in the "theme."|
Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
I dunno. But at least Dominators will have ONE natural option. Blasters already have Devices, Pistols, Rifles, and Archery. Dominators literally have zero natural powers. Besides, a Mind Manipulation/Pistol Assault would be perfect for my particular character concept! |
It's also worth remembering "Natural" is also the origin of aliens and other non-humans. Peace Bringers are natural, after all. Not everyone who uses that origin has to be a regular old human, who happens to run Olympic speeds and take bullets to the face.
Something like MA would be nice for Blasters, but it could also use animations from Super Strength. Just a few punches and kicks, the usual BU, and then one or two thematic powers... like a click that gives you defense for a bit or a ninjitsu style placate.
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It's an idea made by players who don't follow the outdated Statesman model of how to play a Blaster. it's made by players who like Blaster melee because they've actually learned how to play it and know how powerful it can be in the hands of someone who knows how to use it.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
It's been suggested, and shot down, multiple times because it's a horrible idea made by players that don't have the first clue about what the blaster secondary sets are designed for.
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Maelstrom tried to Crane Kick me yesterday. So now I want Martial Arts for a Blaster too.
Single-target immobilize: possibly a Web Grenade-like power. Personally I'd like to not have a single-target immobilize, and instead have something more like Power Thrust, which I find much more useful at high levels where enemy ranged attacks will pound you into the ground just as easily as melee attacks and if you want to stay out of melee you can kite without spending the animation time firing off your immobilize and rooting yourself so the rest of the spawn can close to melee. So I'd like a Power Thrust clone, with the Crane Kick animation.
Thunder Kick: Use the Energy Punch damage scale.
Storm Kick: Use the Bonesmasher damage scale. No Crippling Axe Kick because I hate it.
Focus Chi.
Old Cobra Strike, using Stun numbers.
Eagle's Claw: Tier 9, similar to Total Focus.
Dragon's Tail.
Blinding Powder.
Smoke Flash.
Voila, a quick and dirty secondary. No new animations needed, just some number tweaking. I'd play it in a heartbeat.
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Dominators: I'd rather see Gadget Control as a Natural power for them.
Blaster Martial Manipulation:
1: Axe Kick (Medium, Immob)
2: Palm Strike (Low, Knockback)
3: Feint (Low Dam, Self +Acc/+Dam)
4: Shuriken (Ranged attack, -Def)
5: Storm Kick (Medium, % Stun)
6: Caltrops
7: Flash Powder (-Acc, -Range)
8: Cobra Strike (High, Stun)
9: Blinding Powder (AoE Placate & 4 sec Confuse)
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Hey, fine by me. I admit mine looks a bit overpowered without numbers. I just don't want a "quick'n'dirty" set based entirely on existing powers (no offense intended to prior posters). If we're going to get "Martial Maniuplation" I want it to really stand out.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Frost
No build up is fine with me I like it when the power sets are unqiue. Cookie cutter power sets are dull.
Edit: I like that is start off with a melee strike rather then an single target immobilize but I think Disorient is probably a bit strong for a 1st tier secondary. Usually you are doing pretty good to have a sleep move or a knock back. I think you should add percentage change for some of these secondary effects to trigger. For example:
etc. etc. |
Edited to add: Maybe Distract should have Sleep instead of Confuse, actually. Somehow that status effect slipped my mind, and it seems to fit the idea of "Hey look over there!"
Martial Manip it is, I approve of this message....
Oh a side note, don't ever listen to Je, just laugh. His/her post are to die for.... XD
Maelstrom uses DP/MA so this wouldn't be an entirely outrageous request.
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Like most scrapper sets, it would be UNDERPOWERED on a Blaster. |
Originally Posted by Sailboat
A Martial Arts-like set, sure. Martial Arts itself with anything like its current numbers would be pretty overpowered on a Blaster, wouldn't it?
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Blaster typical good melee attack (Havoc Punch, for instance): damage scale 2.6, 1.5 seconds, available at level 10.
Eagle's Claw: DS 2.65, 2.67 seconds, available at level 32. It has a 100% of large stun and increased critical, true, but that's the top of the freakin' line for MA scrappers.
Mental manip does not have big melee attacks in the secondaries, true, but that's the only new blaster secondary in six years. They could do ANYTHING THEY WANT.
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Isn't it about time Blasters got something that fits a "Natural" origin a bit better? Martial Arts is a melee set that seems perfect for a Blaster secondary. Has there ever been any discussion on this?