Do you post your build?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-07-20 04:25 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
But some of us are not skilled enough to really do it. You can give me all the training in the world and I'll never play the violin in any way that doesn't make you want to throttle me or shoot me to get me to stop.
I've tried to modify builds. But really, I can tweak a given power in a complete vacuum. that's the limit of it. Making it fit a concept or contribute to the whole? Totally outside my skillset. What helps me play and have fun is when someone just gives me a build and says "pick these, slot these, here's your attack chain". Really, you don't want to know how bad it gets when I try to modify things or do it myself. I end up with things like my stalker who has the Serendipity Endurance reduction and no other pieces from the set in hide. Or my cold/ice defender who runs out of endurance on one spawn of two -1 level minions and sometimes gets killed by them. And I've been playing for two years now. I'm a bit better now, but not much. I appreciate the help because i'll never stop trying to get better, but I really prefer the cookie cutter along with the help. |
This is where guides come in, if you want the best character then read the guides and perhaps do further homework. I had a fight with Dreck with my Trick Archer. It taught me to slot a certain way, his limits are common anyway. If you make something for yourself then you gain, learn by doing, learn by mistakes.
You can ask how people work out what to do with their builds. How is the attack chain worked out? How much recharge can you gain without gimping the rest of your build?
Guides are alright as they suffice in getting people started but that's it. Guides should try and give you something to get started from not finish the game with and have no need to know more.
I prefer other people to do a build to see what they favour, get a rough idea of their limits inf wise and then round it off how I would "without it being the very best I or they can do". Sometimes I may not say where I have rounded it off. Looking at mids should tell people, info is plain to see.
I posted a near finished Dark/Dark defender once of mine, it was near done but not quite.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I share with SG mates. We have a huge library of build dating back about 5 years. I'll do builds for friends when they ask. I almost never post a build here. Most Min/Maxed toons are so far above what average players use they don't even understand them. Its like coaching a new player every time they join the SG about Building. They resist, finally cave and then crap when they finally play what we helped them build. Typically their performance triples what they were playing. The hardest part is getting people to understand the concept of pocket 50's and specialist toons. A farmer isn't a speed runner isn't a hami raider. Then again I don't think most people care about having a 50 for every occasion.
"If a system can be exploited, it will be exploited. And if a developer thinks their system cannot be exploited, it'll be exploited like a new actress in her first porn movie." Sanya Weather MMORPG Examiner
I post my builds anytime it might help a fellow player. I've taken some ideas from other players and have certainly illuminated players in return. I enjoy the reciprocal environment that this creates on the forums.
People that treat builds as closely guarded secrets are welcome to do such, but the truth is that they are probably missing out by not participating in the ecosystem.
Sharing my marketeering "secrets" with anyone who cares to peruse the market forum enhances my enjoyment of the game. If I had any interesting builds to share I'm sure the same would be true of posting and discussing them with my fellow players.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Once I asked for someones build when I was on a villain and he was on a hero in a PvP zone, so I can get ideas for power choices on my AT with the same primary and secondary powers. He told me to "**** Off !!!" I logged off my villain and logged onto a hero and just did a screenshot of his power choices and built my AT with his power choices and I did my slotting. I guess I slotted better than he did because later on I won 2-0 on a duel.
Yes I post mine as I love to get feedback from others on them. Maybe someone has a trick that will help make it better.
I dont share mine here, however i have been tempted sometimes to share my lesser toons build. but some i dont like to share here. but happy to give advice/share it to mt8s in pms etc.
i dont know why excatly but i do feel like a build (if its really good, awesome) is meant to be kept a secret. i worked hard on it why should others just get it for free/ease.
lol sound silly i know
What makes you think your build skills are so much better than mine?
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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This is pretty feelings on the topic too. This belief that there is some sort of secret build is pretty funny. If you're experienced with Mid's, you can pretty much lock down the most optimal combination. Often times I think build variations come down to personal preferences versus what's truly optimal. |
Originally Posted by Smurphy
I can respect not wanting to share one's build. However, the concept of "I'm not telling anyone so no one will figure it out" is quite ludicrous and amusing. There are no "secret builds". There may be billions of possible build combinations mathematically but there are very few options realistically once the general direction of the build is understood. "Secret Builds" simply don't exist.
*Unless one intentionally makes sub-optimal choices to throw people off the trail to their "secret build". That right there is a cunning plan. |
I've personally posted dozens of builds and have had many players use them. I know of probably a couple of dozen players out there that are using some variant of one of shield scrapper builds or fire/kin builds.
The only thing that bothers me is when someone claims they came up with a build on their own when it is clearly designed by someone else. I'm flattered when someone uses one of my builds; I'm a little upset when someone claims that one of the builds I posted is something they came up with all on their own.
I don't even necessarily want an author credit, but something along the lines of "I found this build, and I like it. I'd like to adjust it to my preferences..." Instead I see a lot of "I made this build and I want it to pwn +4/x8 settings." Usually, the latter is from players who don't have any understanding of the builds that are posted and are just going to power level it so they can farm for uber lootz.
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Heh took the words right out of my mouth.
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Originally Posted by Dr_HR
lol sound silly i know
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I don't. Mostly because I don't have the patience to type it all out(I've never used Mids). |
Originally Posted by Theron
I had a discussion recently with a player about builds. The person has not and would not (ever) give out their build, which got me thinking: are builds meant to be a closely guarded secret?
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I do try to be original is I can, and don't share often to keep the originality(perhaps only imagined originality). I seldom use others' builds for that reason too.
The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
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There's a couple builds i haven't shared despite requests because i never used Mids' while making them and keep on putting off taking the time to enter everything into Mids'.|
Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot
I don't. Mostly because I don't have the patience to type it all out(I've never used Mids).
I do try to be original is I can, and don't share often to keep the originality(perhaps only imagined originality). I seldom use others' builds for that reason too. |
Otherwise i have no problem sharing my builds if someone asks. For the most part i tend to make generalist builds in that they might focus somewhat on a specific role, but i almost never build around a single attribute/bonus.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
I just see it as silly if anyone thinks this game is important or hard enough to worry about it. lol-elitism
A game like WoW I could *almost* understand wanting to keep secrets, since min-maxing gear, enchants, gems, and most of all, talents, can make the difference between you and your team succeeding in end game content or failing. However, WoW nips all "secrets" in the bud completely by making everything about your character extremely public. Back in the day you could keep some secrets because all you could inspect was people's gear. Now though everything is out there and easy to inspect and copy if you so choose.
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It doesn't matter to you if your build skills are better or not does it, the fact is, whatever, you have you worked it out, you developed it. People should contribute to their own goals.
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Originally Posted by Dr_HR
I dont share mine here, however i have been tempted sometimes to share my lesser toons build. but some i dont like to share here. but happy to give advice/share it to mt8s in pms etc.
i dont know why excatly but i do feel like a build (if its really good, awesome) is meant to be kept a secret. i worked hard on it why should others just get it for free/ease. lol sound silly i know |
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I have posted builds multiple times either when I was looking for feedback or as an example build for someone using the same/similar powerset combo. I have no reason to believe that my builds harbor some secret knowledge known to few (in fact I'd go the other way, I'm idiosyncratic in my builds and they often sacrifice some power for "what I want"). I've gotten ideas from builds other people have posted and I in turn hope people get ideas from my builds (or at the very least a good laugh).
I feel like nobody should hesitate to post their builds because there is no good reason not to (exception: PvP). It also makes me sad to see how many people in this thread are uptight about holding onto their build, or worse, advising 'half-way' builds, expecting someone who could potentially be new, to figure it out on their own.
Some people don't like to number crunch. If you have a really powerful build, why not share it? What's there to do with it that would make one so upset? If someone soloed an AV, GM, or TF or something, does it really matter? It's not like it hasn't been done before. So if someone questions what your build is, and you feel like helping someone out, why not share it?
Edit: And after reading more of this thread, I think Stratos worded it best; this is a game, and I really don't think anything here is worthy of being defensive over.
I don't personally have any desire to keep any of my builds 'secret'. For me this is a non-competitive game, and I feel no qualms about giving anyone any advice they want. My own personal builds in particular (as opposed to a build made in answer to whatever question is being asked) don't usually end up coming up as I don't feel they offer much in the way of insight into anything other than my personal preferences, but when they do I have no issues sharing them.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
I post lots of builds (mostly for feedback when I crunch 'em in mids' 
) but oddly very few of my high level live characters have their exact builds posted anywhere online. That's not out of secrecy or anything, just that I'm too lazy to open a build in-game then copy it over to mids' when I could be doing something fun like RPing or murderizing mass waves of npcs. So even if I did post a variant of a live build, it'd only end up being a "close enough for gov't work" version.
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I don't consider anyone that stupid that they can't develop their own builds. People should do most of the work for want they want to achieve as they are the ones who will play it and know exactly what they're looking for at the end of the day.
There is no defensiveness really as I think some of us can look back to the days when firetanks looked identical and everyone followed the same rules and thought boring. Same old.
If some people do not wish to post their builds there is no point coming up with a single reason why they don't as it is likely to be wrong. Personally I think it is fun to have something to figure out, ergo I wouldn't go here is my build to others. I have an Inv/SS, and lets say you wanted help with an Inv/Mace and a Ice/SS I would help with them, amalgamate the two as in Inv/SS and it could be damn close but still wrong so it don't matter.
I remember doing a stonetankers build for him, he made it ingame to every detail, I said to him "Good build" and he replied along the lines of "thanks I did it myself". If people are gonna take some credit for even the knock on results then contribute to it me thinks. It takes some people no more than 60 mins to knock up what a beginner might take a couple of days to work out, but we were all beginners once, if we happened to appreciate the learning curve then perhaps we happen to appreciate leaving that for others. If people get good at building for themselves one build then they will get faster and better at their others.
Days of having a mother to wipe the chocolate of ones face should of been long over.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Fantastic statement! I couldn't agree more. To add to that, recipes are made to be shared, tweaked and improved. I feel the same way about builds.|
Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
A build is like a recipe. You can give the same recipe to 100 different cooks and no two dishes will taste the same.
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Originally Posted by macskull
I realize that people want different things from their builds than I do (for example, I fit in Hasten/SS and Hurdle/CJ in almost every one of my builds simply because that's the best way to get around 99% of the time, for me, even in PvE), so I'll mention that when I post a build. Generally if someone asks for a build I'll say "post your own" in order to get an idea of what they're thinking, and then I'll tear that build down and change things up a bit. I'm more than willing to share my builds with people that ask, but I encourage people to build their own and compare the two.
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Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
But some of us are not skilled enough to really do it. You can give me all the training in the world and I'll never play the violin in any way that doesn't make you want to throttle me or shoot me to get me to stop.
I've tried to modify builds. But really, I can tweak a given power in a complete vacuum. that's the limit of it. Making it fit a concept or contribute to the whole? Totally outside my skillset. What helps me play and have fun is when someone just gives me a build and says "pick these, slot these, here's your attack chain". Really, you don't want to know how bad it gets when I try to modify things or do it myself. I end up with things like my stalker who has the Serendipity Endurance reduction and no other pieces from the set in hide. Or my cold/ice defender who runs out of endurance on one spawn of two -1 level minions and sometimes gets killed by them. And I've been playing for two years now. I'm a bit better now, but not much. I appreciate the help because i'll never stop trying to get better, but I really prefer the cookie cutter along with the help. |
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Originally Posted by Solo_One
i give out my builds in the hopes that someone else can make it better, thereby making me better. after all information wants to be spread, its the basis of the internet.
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Originally Posted by Dr_HR
i dont know why excatly but i do feel like a build (if its really good, awesome) is meant to be kept a secret. i worked hard on it why should others just get it for free/ease.
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I don't see builds as proprietary information. I see my builds as open source.
never!!!!
mine... all mine!!!
muhahahahaha
Definitely!
I think I post up every single toon I get to 50 before I do their final respec to slot purples. Do I need to because of a lack of confidence? Not really but I always wonder if there is some detail I've forgotten. I do this in particular because these toons of mine have only just hit 50 whereas other people have been playing and enjoying the same powersets for years in some cases. I assume they have more knowledge and love hearing feedback on my builds.
I see no reason too. What, maybe they use my build and are better than me? Haha. Fat Chance.
Anyway, I usually will read what their issues are, try to give some advice if I know anything about it, and then if I have a build similiar to what they want to do, share it as a sort of guideline they can work from. I've learned a lot about looking at other people's builds that don't necessarily have anything to do with the character I plan to build. I used to search Umbral and Werner for builds they had posted to see if I couldn't gleam anything when I was bored.
The other interesting thing was the person had obviously spent billions on this build so even if you were to get ahold of it, its doubtful most people would have the resources or inclination to duplicate it.
*Unless one intentionally makes sub-optimal choices to throw people off the trail to their "secret build". That right there is a cunning plan.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.