Do you post your build?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

I had a discussion recently with a player about builds. The person has not and would not (ever) give out their build, which got me thinking: are builds meant to be a closely guarded secret?


 

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I have come across players like that also. Their builds are the most secret things in the world to them. Especially for PvP builds.

But IMO, after 6+ years, and programs like Mids, every possible primary/secondary has been played by someone, people have number crunched countless times for max rech, def, HP, etc., and solo'd most the hardest content (AVs, TFs, GMs, etc.). With other information like the Wiki, you have access to all the numbers, IO sets, and powers, so it is not like there are mysterious extra powers or IOs these players have access too and not letting us know about.

So, in other words, I find it hard to believe some players have found such an uber build that is has remained secret after all this time. But I do understand PvPers like to keep their builds secret and I respect that. I really don't care if people know my build or my set bonuses. My toons are not either the worst or best I have seen.


 

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I'd say it depends, i usually don't mind but sometimes i think twice about it. Not much about the "secret" thing than the fact some random peoples can come in and copy the build while not understanding anything about it, then end up boasting about a character when they won't have put any work for it in the way of searching and understanding game mechanics.

And a build is a "single player" think as a good build for me is a build that fits the playstyle, theme, and power expectations i have. Almost all my builds have some room where i drop a bit of min/maxing for something i like that fits the theme or character, or just powers i find useful because of how i play.

Ideally i think we should help peoples to make their own build, rather than feeding them with our own builds. I always found discussions like "how to slot that power" always more interesting than "give me XX/YY build pls !".


Dark armor lover.

The Claws/DA Scrapper guide.

 

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Yeah, I'd post if asked for any examples.

I agree with PennyPA, I don't think there's really anything new you could do with a build to make that huge a difference.

Once you understand the basics of the game mechanics, and look up the info for IOs and powersets its all fairly straightforwards to figure out how to max out certain aspects of your character or balance between various aspects.


 

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A build is like a recipe. You can give the same recipe to 100 different cooks and no two dishes will taste the same.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
I was hesitant to, but I eventually posted the build for the tank from my video.
Yeah it feels like you are giving up the recipe to Coke. But, as others have pointed out, its easy to replicate a build with the power listing, set bonoses displayed, and Mids (if you have the time and patience!).


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theron View Post
Yeah it feels like you are giving up the recipe to Coke. But, as others have pointed out, its easy to replicate a build with the power listing, set bonoses displayed, and Mids (if you have the time and patience!).
It helps that I still believe that my success as a tank is due as much to my skill as my build.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theron View Post
Yeah it feels like you are giving up the recipe to Coke. But, as others have pointed out, its easy to replicate a build with the power listing, set bonoses displayed, and Mids (if you have the time and patience!).
Recently I posted three of my builds for people to see. I figure if it helps one person, it was worth it.

I do agree with Dechs, player skill is in addition to the AT and build.


 

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I don't hesitate to share builds when asked. Being good with Mids isn't something worth lording over people imo.

Besides all my builds are customized to what I like to play so the chances of someone else using the build in the same way or even as well are reduced. Actually come to think of it I wouldn't care if someone took a build I posted and broke the game so to speak. Good for them I say.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
It helps that I still believe that my success as a tank is due as much to my skill as my build.
Oh, I would agree with that too. It is like giving the keys to a top of the line Indy race car to some one who knows how to drive the family sedan.

I think DrMike2000 has a good point in that what more could someone add to a build - HP, def, res, etc. - that could make such a difference?
And if you could make a difference, what would you do with it - solo a TF or AV, defeat a GM - that hasn't been done already?
I won't exclude the possibility that there might be some really awesome thing a player could come up with for a build, but if it so incredible, how is it staying so secret for so long?

Again, if players want to keep their builds to themselves, I respec that. But, I see more often players coming to the forums and posting builds, so eventually their build maybe discovered and revealed, even if they don't admit it.


 

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The only reasons you don't see me post a build is not because I feel it's some closely guarded secret. It's usually just out of "No reason to." If I needed to to illustrate something, or ask "Can I do something better here," I wouldn't have an issue doing so.

... though come to think of it, I think I have done so to illustrate a use for dual builds.

Besides, most of mine end up being SO-based. The main issue I have with build posting? Someone asks for help with a build and gets sent a multi-billion INF build - which isn't too helpful before 50 most times. (Contrast with the Huntsman guide in the player guides, which gives three slotting schemes - SOs/common IOs, sets, purples, as I recall. Need to see that more.)


 

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If I am asked, i post.

I do so because sometimes I NEEDhelp on a build too, and would hope to get the same kindness.


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Unless it's a pvp build, I see absolutely no real good reason to keep a build secret.


 

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I've received much generous help from others- Werner, for instance, gave me two builds to demonstrate the difference between a really top-end build and a cheap build.

I tend to personally be the guy who, when you ask what time it is, tells you how to build a watch. So I'm more likely to ask a bunch of questions and then try to custom-create something around what YOU want.

Which is to say if someone came up to me and said "What's the build for Fulminator?" I'd tell them. But they'd probably get better results building their own thing. (Especially since Fulminator is a fire/elec blaster, and that's all play and no build.)


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I certainly don't mind posting builds. I'm too lazy to fire Mid's up (from it's flash drive) and do it that often. I rarely respond to the "I need a xx/xx (usually fire/kin) elite build naow!" posts. But if someone has specific questions and is willing to state what they want the character to do and how they intend to play it, I'm happy to try to work out a build for them.


@SBeaudway on Pinnacle, TaskForce Titans Supergroup.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theron View Post
I had a discussion recently with a player about builds. The person has not and would not (ever) give out their build, which got me thinking: are builds meant to be a closely guarded secret?
I very seldom post exactly what I'm playing on live. Most of the time I'll post something that is similar to what I'm playing with some key differences, largely because I don't like doing all the work for someone else.

I've had people tell me "That build sucks!"

....Of course it does, that's not the exact build, because you should do at least SOME of the work yourself. Figure out what it's missing and fix it

But that's with MY builds that I actually play. I have no problem at all posting a build just to show someone what I might do with a particular powerset, or if they ask for help with theirs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
I very seldom post exactly what I'm playing on live. Most of the time I'll post something that is similar to what I'm playing with some key differences, largely because I don't like doing all the work for someone else.

I've had people tell me "That build sucks!"

....Of course it does, that's not the exact build, because you should do at least SOME of the work yourself. Figure out what it's missing and fix it
I don't guard my personal builds like they're trade secrets, but I really like this. I should have done this when posting my tank's build. I guess, technically I have. I respec'd the power choice order recently to make it even more exemplar friendly.

When it comes to forum posts asking for good builds: I've never been one to just post a build when someone asks for a "good x/y" build. I will revise, edit, and improve for people. I will not create. Put some work into it yourself.


Where to now?
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The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

I can respect not wanting to share one's build. However, the concept of "I'm not telling anyone so no one will figure it out" is quite ludicrous and amusing. There are no "secret builds". There may be billions of possible build combinations mathematically but there are very few options realistically once the general direction of the build is understood. "Secret Builds" simply don't exist.

*Unless one intentionally makes sub-optimal choices to throw people off the trail to their "secret build". That right there is a cunning plan.


 

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I realize that people want different things from their builds than I do (for example, I fit in Hasten/SS and Hurdle/CJ in almost every one of my builds simply because that's the best way to get around 99% of the time, for me, even in PvE), so I'll mention that when I post a build. Generally if someone asks for a build I'll say "post your own" in order to get an idea of what they're thinking, and then I'll tear that build down and change things up a bit. I'm more than willing to share my builds with people that ask, but I encourage people to build their own and compare the two.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurphy View Post
I can respect not wanting to share one's build. However, the concept of "I'm not telling anyone so no one will figure it out" is quite ludicrous and amusing. There are no "secret builds". There may be billions of possible build combinations mathematically but there are very few options realistically once the general direction of the build is understood. "Secret Builds" simply don't exist.

*Unless one intentionally makes sub-optimal choices to throw people off the trail to their "secret build". That right there is a cunning plan.
Part of the secrecy may be the fact that before ED, IOs, and set bonuses, builds used to be simpler.


 

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I remember one dude, a scrapper I think, that was soloing AVs before it was the cool thing to do, that wouldn't even share his attack chain.

I've occasionally shared builds, but for the most part I'm like others that will just provide feedback on builds others provide. Not because it's a closely guarded family secret, more that I don't think my own builds are so much cleverer.


Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)

 

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i give out my builds in the hopes that someone else can make it better, thereby making me better. after all information wants to be spread, its the basis of the internet.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theron View Post
I had a discussion recently with a player about builds. The person has not and would not (ever) give out their build, which got me thinking: are builds meant to be a closely guarded secret?
If you're a pvper in a balanced game where only a slight bit more skill/luck is what it takes to keep winning and your build has a certain flexibility that people just haven't thought about then you could be suspicious about giving away your build as it would be like exposing your flexibility so others can share it and expose all your build vulnerabilities so people can have a better pop against it. However in one pvp fight you get a combat log and ingame you can read peoples powers to get a good idea of someone elses build. I have practically remade peoples builds after pvping them once but I don't pvp seriously, barely ever do I.

Then there is the cookie cutter factor, some people are proud to offer their builds and have several different copies of what they took the time to thoroughly min/max about whilst others prefer to be completely unidentical for concept individually and/or perhaps have a niche.

Believing in people playing the game as it is meant to be played, ie a player runs into challenges and learns to overcome them themselves or as part of a team is another reason.

If you were to get given a complete guide on what to expect and what to do, would there be much point in playing the game? It'll be like mowing the lawn to me. I was into getting to know the numbers but the game has lost its magic from knowing them (but atleast I don't feel dumb in teams). Once you know the magic trick, the magic is gone.

It is better for players to be self sufficient in creating any build for themselves. Better to teach someone to fish and all that.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dawn View Post
It is better for players to be self sufficient in creating any build for themselves. Better to teach someone to fish and all that.
But some of us are not skilled enough to really do it. You can give me all the training in the world and I'll never play the violin in any way that doesn't make you want to throttle me or shoot me to get me to stop.

I've tried to modify builds. But really, I can tweak a given power in a complete vacuum. that's the limit of it. Making it fit a concept or contribute to the whole? Totally outside my skillset.

What helps me play and have fun is when someone just gives me a build and says "pick these, slot these, here's your attack chain".

Really, you don't want to know how bad it gets when I try to modify things or do it myself.

I end up with things like my stalker who has the Serendipity Endurance reduction and no other pieces from the set in hide. Or my cold/ice defender who runs out of endurance on one spawn of two -1 level minions and sometimes gets killed by them. And I've been playing for two years now. I'm a bit better now, but not much.

I appreciate the help because i'll never stop trying to get better, but I really prefer the cookie cutter along with the help.


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