What is the general consensus on server emptyness?
By
3dent,
Posted on: 2010-07-09 07:05 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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people keep saying this and I keep wondering WTH they're on about.|
Originally Posted by Redd35
Hello all, this is not intended as a "merge teh servars!" or "this game is dead" thread, but it really saddens me to see the emptiness on some of the servers. I recently moved my toons over to freedom because there was just not as many people on as there used to be.
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I've played on Triumph my entire CoH career, hero & villain, and haven't noticed it emptying out to any meaningful degree.
I also have characters on Freedom, which is as clogged with humanity as ever, and Virtue, which if anything seems to have increased its population over the last year or so.
Maybe there are servers out there that have suffered some sort of catastrophic population die-off, but the ones I play on are doing great.
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Most problems seem to be people not using server channels (mostly out of ignorance). I've pointed that out in many threads over the past couple years, and even made sure to add a "Welcome to Victory" thread to help out people with those on my home server.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
people keep saying this and I keep wondering WTH they're on about.
I've played on Triumph my entire CoH career, hero & villain, and haven't noticed it emptying out to any meaningful degree. I also have characters on Freedom, which is as clogged with humanity as ever, and Virtue, which if anything seems to have increased its population over the last year or so. Maybe there are servers out there that have suffered some sort of catastrophic population die-off, but the ones I play on are doing great. |
When most people find out about those, the problem is almost always solved.
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In my experience the people that make these "the servers are dead" threads are the ones who have been put on everyones ignore list on whichever low pop server they are on. We actively use tools like /hide, /gignore, and Notes to avoid players that are a pain in the butt.
The smaller the community the easier it is to tick everyone off. It's also one of the reasons Freedom has a larger share of obnoxious players. The jerks move there to find people who don't know them.
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Way to completely miss the entire point.|
Originally Posted by Camper
Funny how all the experts on how terrible it is to be on a low population server never actually play on the low population servers, isn't it.
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Reading comprehension fail.
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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um. Smurch. He called that correctly.
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Originally Posted by Smurch
Way to completely miss the entire point.
Reading comprehension fail. |
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Most problems seem to be people not using server channels (mostly out of ignorance). I've pointed that out in many threads over the past couple years, and even made sure to add a "Welcome to Victory" thread to help out people with those on my home server.
When most people find out about those, the problem is almost always solved. |
The thing is that many (IMO) people don't see that as a valid argument because in there opinion its not something the developers intended the global channels to be used for. Mostly based on the fact that its not automatically set up. They see it as something extra they shouldn't have to do to get a team. There for the servers should be merged. As far as weather or not that is right, well... probably not but it doesn't matter that's how they see it.
(Or that's how I see them as seeing it...)
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EVE online did it right *for them.* They are based around PVP. Single server = target rich environment. AION is merging servers not least for that same reason. |
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
Eve Online did it right. Single Server for every one that plays the game. This gives you the best sense of cohesion and community. It also solves a number of problems inherent in MMO's. For examtople playing with your friends is easier if theirs only one server its. Its also better for the devs so they can do big events. Unfortunately at this point all our servers are too well-established to effect a server merge, people would scream bloody murder.
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COH? That emptiness you feel?
- Teleport to mission
- Use base teleporters
- Get teleported
- Fly high overhead so you can AFK and get a drink
- Almost everything instanced
That contributes quite a bit to the "emptiness," as you don't see everyone going to kill the same 100 bats to get 7 Bat Nostril Hairs to turn into Bat Control Girl to progress on your quest to get to the Dragon of Diarrhea and end the flow of reinforcements besieging Tolkeintown etc etc etc. Of course, the instancing of everything also means you don't have to stand in line to be Team 27 waiting to kill Boss #174 or rescue Hostage 18 from the Cage of Cinnabons or whatever.
I play on every server. My opinion on my Freedom experiences is easy enough to figure out when you see those are my *least* played characters. I transferred characters *from* Freedom during the free transfers. Freedom contains most of my worst teaming experiences. I play most heavily on Victory and Pinnacle, not high-pop servers, and don't have issues getting teams as desired. Of course, I also don't insist that "team" has to equal "6-8 people of the perfect AT mix," either, since pretty much *any* mix is going to be fine with a group of even moderately-aware players behind the keyboards.
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| I'm sorry, but I don't believe that you actually like being one of the only 14 heroes/villians on your server at that time. I can understand these people that make these statements are defending the game and reassuring themselves, |
Stupid statement to make, OP.
Edit: Oh, and the copypasta:
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Why server consolidation is not a good idea. 1. Just because YOU like living in New York City doesn't mean I can't like Kansas. Yay, you love having huge lag spikes as you get near the black market/wentworths and a busy broadcast. Congrats. Enjoy Freedom. Some of us - many of which you will get replies from with this subject - like *low population* servers. If we *wanted* to be on Freedom, we'd *be* on Freedom. I have characters on Freedom. I rarely play them (and actually moved a character OFF of Freedom to finish leveling it to 50) because *I DON'T LIKE FREEDOM.* I dislike the banality of broadcast, the high percentage of *horrid* teams I've come across there, the lag around any gathering point- and I've got a decent connection and system. For much the same reason, I typically startin Galaxy City instead of Atlas Park - I don't *want* to log in to a costume contest with several 50s spamming powers and nonsense arguments in broadcast. Some of us *like* nice, quiet servers. 2, Kansas, part 2. In addition, servers have their own personalities. No, I don't mean that literally, there's no AI to worry about if you start hearing "Daisy, Daisy" over your speakers or headset. Freedom's a crowded mess. Virtue is the RP server. Pinnacle is the "Drunk" server. Others have specific communities, such as those from Australia/NZ, Europe, etc. 3. "I only saw one other person. World of Conancraft has eleventy billion!" So what? We don't run around camping spawn points in this game. People are in missions. People are spread across many zones. Search on a map or do a /whoall and you'll miss those in missions, as well as those who are, for whatever reason, on /hide. Your "search" there didn't give you a full picture, not in the least. I understand the "feel" of things being "not very populated," but take a good look around when you're in game. Typically, you don't really have a lot of visibility. Standing in steel canyon, there could be multiple, full 8 person groups surrounding you, and it's likely you'd never see them. We have buildings, walls, architecture, trees and more limiting our visibility. Yes, it can make you feel more alone... but that's rarely the case. Add to that that the population is spread between many, MANY zones, most quite large, and among two sides... well... 4. "I put up my LFT flag and nothing happened!" Learn to search. Don't just wait. Form a team yourself. 5. "I AM SPARTACUS!" No, not any more. Remember logging in and seeing all those slots? Everyone has those - some buy more than the base 12, you get an extra one each year, you could have a total of 36 on any server. Everyone does. Every one has a character with a unique name. Maybe not a *good* name, but a unique one. Every one has a character with a unique name. Maybe not a *good* name, but a unique one. Now merge servers. Suddenly, CoolBlasterDude from server 1 is getting merged with CoolBlasterDude from Server 2. Who gets to keep their name? Nobody has been able to answer this with any degree of satisfaction. Add a number? But I am NOT CoolBlasterGuy1. And what if the name's too long? Does the older character keep it? What if they're not as active? People are *VERY* attached to their names. They are, quite obviously, part of their character. 6. "This Is SPARTA!" Sorry, Sparta exists already. You are GenericSG 8734 287 9798. What else has a name? Supergroups. And I can *guarandamntee* that the same name is in use on multiple servers. Sometimes it's 'branches' of the same SG, sometimes it's coincidence. But with *everything* involved in an SG - from its identity and reputation on the server, to everything stored in the database about what it owns, what its base is like and such, this would be a disaster in the making. And no, auto merging them when the servers merge, even if they have room to, is not an option. This, of course, assumes that they *CAN* move supergroups as a unit. More than likely, it'd just be a mass character move, with bases, prestige, anything stored in bases and all SG affiliations just gone forever. 7. "I am... where'd Spartacus go?" Remember all those slots? Well, you start with 1/3 of the available ones. You can buy up to 36 total (24 on top of the ones you get initially.) Now, what do you suppose would happen if you merged two servers, and someone has, say, 20 characters on each? Not unusual. In fact, before those extra slots, I had *filled up* several servers. Do those characters just disappear? Do they move? Free move to another server sounds great, right... well, except you now kick them from their supergroup, remove them from their friends lists and more. This makes for angry and unhappy customers. Or rather, ex customers. 8. I will play where I damn well want to. And you can too. And that should be blunt enough. If I want a crowded server, I'll go to Freedom. If I want an RP server, I'll go to Virtue. I do NOT want to be shoved onto another server I *don't* like. If I wanted to go there, *I'd be there.* If the server you're on isn't "busy" enough for you, you have two options that won't bother anyone else. (A) If it's low enough, reroll. You have a ton of character slots for a reason. (B) If you don't want to reroll, server transfers are available, and relatively cheap. They also finish fast - you should be up and running and being spammed to join someone's SG on the new server in a few minutes, in most instances. So YOU can go to the server of YOUR choice without screwing ME over. 9. "It'll free up server hardware for Freedom!" No, no it won't. Freedom, because of the load it tends to have, already has more resources dedicated to it than other servers. And ALL of the servers have been upgraded multiple times. The servers are not allocated exactly the same. The servers that handle less of a load have less dedicated to them. So this argument doesn't fly. 10. DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! Last but not least (at least until better points come along to be added,) server consolidation is widely viewed in the industry as an MMO going on life support. No, we don't have WoWs numbers (and you should actually pay attention to when and how they got those.) They're an abberation in the MMO industry. COH has had and does have a very successful, sustainable population even at its lowest points, so there's no economic need to combine anything. The flip side of that, of course, has been suggested above - you crowd people together, break up their SGs and friends lists, cause characters to go missing and poeple definitely *will* quit, both out of annoyance and a sense of "The game is almost dead!" In conclusion.... As stated before, when it comes to server consolidation... HELL NO. |
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Easy.|
Originally Posted by Defenestrator
And what would you propose doing if:
--The merger of two or three specific servers puts a player over the cap of allowed characters on that server? --Characters merging into a server have the same name? Who gets to keep the name? |
1) We all get our maximum toons per server raised to 72.
2) Each gets generic'ed and a rename token. First one to log in and grab the name they both had gets to keep it.
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Prove this is "easy." Especially with being told very recently that, no, the max characters per server would not be raised. Otherwise, SCR upon you. |
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Easy.
1) We all get our maximum toons per server raised to 72. |
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| 2) Each gets generic'ed and a rename token. First one to log in and grab the name they both had gets to keep it. |
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Agreed. Of course nothing other than your last point explains why someone would feel increased degrees of emptiness compared to the past as those features have been in play for years in most cases. Additionally since inventions the chances of seeing people traveling in zone (at least near the associated hubs) has increased on paper and should counteract many of the causes of emptiness. At the very least people playing in vig/rogue status will add some warm bodies to the available pool. Other than that, hopefully another round of free transfers will satisfy the remaining people that missed the first wave of musical chairs. Assuming of course they open up the option 2-4 months after GR launches, which I'm hopeful they will.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
COH? That emptiness you feel?
- Teleport to mission - Use base teleporters - Get teleported - Fly high overhead so you can AFK and get a drink - Almost everything instanced - Lowest all time subs |
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rep: Gee, think they changed FROM that for a reason?|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
I think if they just flipped the load order from highest to lowest that would naturally help the several hundred to a few thousand new players that will be showing up soon lean toward a more "player rich" experience. As much as that is possible any way.
Aside from that I prefer to view the non freedom/virtue servers as 2% full rather than 98% empty. Just perspective. |
Yes I do. Come out of from the shadows and I'll happily discuss it. At any rate when they did it the solution wasn't what they implemented. The solution was to randomly list them.
Anyway, time to change back. I'd feel terrible for any new player starting a MMO and encountering what greets you on any of the servers that tend to top the server list. Imagine running the tutorial and not knowing it was an open instance rather than a private one. And that's just the beginning of it all.
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I seriously don't see how that would be of some big importance at all. I mean, sure, there's an advantage to knowing it's an open instance if you want to team for Isolator (something a newbie wouldn't know anything about unless they'd been doing some study), but other than that, the tutorial might as well be a private instance. Otherwise, it'd only be a curiosity. "Oh, other people can be in this tutorial too? OK."
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Frosticus confuses me: Imagine running the tutorial and not knowing it was an open instance rather than a private one. And that's just the beginning of it all. |
Dec out.
Here's the thing I don't understand. I usually play with /hide from search on and yet if there are fewer people playing then ever before why is it I'm seeing a rise in the number of invites being sent to me even tho I'm using the /hide from searches.
Because you dared to actually make friends with people and be part of a community instead of consistently depending on teaming with random strangers? 
Dec out.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Here's the thing I don't understand. I usually play with /hide from search on and yet if there are fewer people playing then ever before why is it I'm seeing a rise in the number of invites being sent to me even tho I'm using the /hide from searches.
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Due to the lower population people resort to looking at whos in global channels and put every one they see on there friend lists. So that they have people to ask when they are trying (desperately) to get a team going. Also I thought /hide stopped all incoming tells any way.
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"Hypocrisy, the human inherent." "Let not this work be wasted, apply yourself always."
As far as I know, they still get them, but the sender gets told they're on hide or not online. I have friends I have /tell conversations with all the time while they're on hide.
Dec out.
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Unless they're compulsively checking global names for what characters are on, you can't friend a global name without the other person accepting it. If the other person accepts it, it's not a desperate move.|
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
Due to the lower population people resort to looking at whos in global channels and put every one they see on there friend lists. So that they have people to ask when they are trying (desperately) to get a team going. Also I thought /hide stopped all incoming tells any way.
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/hide doesn't stop incoming tells. There is an option to hide from tells, but you still get them, and the sender gets told you aren't online or are hiding.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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That entirely depends on the game. I can hide just fine in EVE. In fact...there are systems that practically never see another human soul.|
Originally Posted by BlackArachnia
I hate Hate HATE single server games!!
Laggy as all heck and you can't hide from the pests. Never mind that you have your global showing at all times. Ugh. |
Yeah there is lag. But there is lag on multi-server games as well.
I actually had a nice trade route setup through a 5 system cluster that was surrounded by low sec space. I could spend a week in there and see maybe one or two players pass by.
Please refrain from generalizations.
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Originally Posted by Smurch
I originally played on Protector. When I came back to the game after a hiatus a year ago January, Protector was dead. All the SGs I knew: gone. Streets: Empty. Pocket D: Vacant 99% of the time.
I moved to Virtue, and things were much better. Recently, a player we knew from the old days logged back in after a couple years break and said Protector was so dead, so he moved to Virtue too. I understand having loyalty to your chosen server to a degree, I do, but honestly, many of the servers are seriously underpopulated these days, especially compared to how they used to be. To pretend the populations haven't been steadily shrinking because you have "no problems" finding a team is sticking your head in the sand. Sooner or later, the devs are going to need to cope with the fact that some servers have populations that are drying up. As someone pointed out, it's not good for the game for a new player to log in the first time, select a server at random, and see no one else around. Eventually, something will need to be done: a server merge, a single-server solution, something. You can stick your fingers in your ears all you want but there is a reality that while you might enjoy playing on a server where you can usually pretend successfully that it's a single player game, this is not good for a business, and a business decision is likely to be made at some point that is probably going to make you very unhappy. It'd be alot more productive to talk about real solutions to dwindling populations on some servers and thus have at least some voice in shaping that eventual solution than to keep asserting that everything is fine and nothing needs to change, ever. Because like it or not, that's probably not true. |
Not everyone who disagrees with merging the servers are blind to shrinking populations. I for one am not yet I am still against it. I am against it because of issues that will arise as pointed out due to character and SG naming.
I will quit the game when they start merging. I'm not saying this as a threat but, as a fact of what will occur. What that tells me is that they are entering into a maintenance mode because the subscriptions are below a cost effective point to maintain them. That and if I lose character names (some of which I have had since weeks after launch), I will be quite displeased. I might be alone in that. So, the real question becomes is that a good business decision to lose customers as a result of that decision? I am not about to predict numbers but, if we went down to less then half the servers we current have as suggested up thread, there may be a fairly signifigant number who feel the same way as I do. If that occurs, is the remaining population large enough to be cost effective to pay for those servers?
--Rad
/whereami:
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No.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Easy.
1) We all get our maximum toons per server raised to 72. 2) Each gets generic'ed and a rename token. First one to log in and grab the name they both had gets to keep it. |
You have earned Negative Rep for this Fail.
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It's not important in the sense that you are depicting, but rather in the sense that if a new player were to pick any server from the top...say +/- 6 servers on the list they are more than likely going to run the tutorial alone. Not necessarily a problem in and of itself, but they then roll the die and if they pick Galaxy they will load in and again see no one (this is the case even on Freedom usually). Is that really presenting a MMO in the best light?|
Originally Posted by Decorum
I seriously don't see how that would be of some big importance at all. I mean, sure, there's an advantage to knowing it's an open instance if you want to team for Isolator (something a newbie wouldn't know anything about unless they'd been doing some study), but other than that, the tutorial might as well be a private instance. Otherwise, it'd only be a curiosity. "Oh, other people can be in this tutorial too? OK."
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I rolled up a blaster about a month ago on my original server (Infinity). I ran the tutorial, chose Galaxy, then went to Kings, then went to Steel. I didn't see another player until I was level 11 ninja jumping my way to Valkyrie. If I was a new player and experienced that there would be zero chance I'd continue playing this game because frankly there are better single player superhero games on the market.
*why not choose atlas? because there is a 50% chance of not choosing it and I was pretending I was new to the game so I chose a server I have no idea of any channels and no friends to look me up.
I don't really care one way or the other who likes to play on an empty server and who likes to play on a less empty server in this game. But can anyone honestly say that a new player is going to get a good MMO experience if they pick a server like Infinity?
*The reason I mentioned the tutorial in my last post was nostalgia. It wasn't until I reached the end that I remembered it was an open instance and then I fondly remembered running it around other lvl 1 newbs.
I think when GR launches they should disable starting in Paragon City or the Rogue Isles with a new character on any account that is less than 1 month old. Think about it for a second. All of us are going to be in Praetoria. Can you imagine how bad (ie deserted), even compared to now, that your starting experience would be if you didn't choose to start in Praetoria? I mean you probably wouldn't see anyone else even on freedom during that period. Imagine the other servers. If they want any new player to stick with the game, pray they select Praetoria with their new toon. If you can't make it the only option for new players at least put some big flashing arrows pointing to it so they know they should pick it.
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Oh yes, limit new players' options. That'll keep them playing.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
I think when GR launches they should disable starting in Paragon City or the Rogue Isles with a new character on any account that is less than 1 month old. |
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Limit their options to the best face the game has to show. You know the whole new world that is being designed especially to attract new players. Yes that will keep them playing. Or at least give a much better chance of keeping them playing.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
Oh yes, limit new players' options. That'll keep them playing.
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Or let them pick the rogue isles when 90% of the sub 20's are in praetoria and another 8% are in paragon city. Kiss that new account goodbye - unless they were looking for a single player game.
I get that you guys have blinders on and that's fine when dealing with the existing population that will likely be here until they shut down. If anything it is entertainingly cute. It's not ok when talking about the expansion. Ignorance is bliss for you guys and it can be bliss for new players too. A new player wouldn't know that you are supposed to be able to start in paragon city/rogue isles and wouldn't think twice about being gated into the amazing new starting zone. Probably not the right place to discuss this kind of stuff though, I've seen how you guys get whenever population is mentioned. Logical isn't the word used to describe it.
Feel free to present a noteworthy reason why you wouldn't want new players pushed as heavily as possible into praetoria when GR launches. I am a logical person, so a compelling enough reason will convince me to change my stance. Thanks
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Practicing to be a politician trying to misattribute things? Let's see, where did my list REALLY stop... oh...|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
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Originally Posted by The original, unedited Memphis Bill
COH? That emptiness you feel?
- Teleport to mission - Use base teleporters - Get teleported - Fly high overhead so you can AFK and get a drink - Almost everything instanced |
My already low personal opinion of you has shot down even farther, for presenting that as dishonestly as you did. "My" last point as you put it there was certainly not mine, as anyone can see from the original quote, and yet you add it and then say it's mine? I'll not have someone skim through and see that misrepresentation as the fact of what I said.
Since you wish to be immature and call that my quote, let me put this a way you may be able to understand. "Liar, liar, pants on fire."
Now, as far as lowest subs - here, let me put it at your level again - "Duh." It's a six year old (and change) game. MMOs tend to go through a population bleed - either rapidly, a la Tabula Rasa, or slowly - like us. That said, I'm still running into new people with regularity (and they don't seem to be having all too many issues with "where is everyone," understanding instancing and getting teams,) on top of our various cycles and subscription rises and dips (time of year, resubbing for new features, playing, then going to another game.)
As far as your later, foolish "Force new players post-GR to start in Praetoria?" Yes, the zone shows off the latest tech, assuming the new player's system can handle ultra mode. But this is a game about choices. You can *choose* archetypes and a wide variety of powersets instead of being pigeonholed into narrow playstyles. You can choose to go nuts with costumes or stay in the first one. You can choose to PVP or ignore it completely. You can choose to IO out a character to the gills or run solely on SOs. Removing a choice - especially, by the way, when EATs must start in their "native" zones - goes against all that. If I *want* to start out as a villain, I should have that - here's that word again - choice. If I know my character's heroic from the top of his head to the tips of his pointy boots, I shouldn't have to start in a "grey" area. I should be able to head to Atlas or Galaxy - whether on my multi-year-old accounts or a brand new, five minute old one - and spout off heroic cliches and be an overgrown boy scout from XP 0 on up.
--The merger of two or three specific servers puts a player over the cap of allowed characters on that server?
--Characters merging into a server have the same name? Who gets to keep the name?
The servers do not need to merge. If you feel the need to play on a more populated server, move to Freedom.
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