Tanks....To Taunt or not?
Speaking as a frequent squishy, it's criminal not to take it.
{unless you're soloing, in which case nobody is relying on you to get the aggro}
One more here for the "useful, but not essential" pack. Personally, I always take it on my tanks simply because it's a ranged power, which most tanker sets lack until you can unlock ancillary pools. I'm also lazy and use it to make the three guys standing over there come over to the bunch I'm about to attack instead of jogging by them or smacking one of them.
Also, some of the Taunt IO sets have nice bonuses and are usually cheap. Can't wait for the purple one
True, but the can and do often fill the same role very well. Almost all of my Brutes tank.
Punchvoke on Tankers works quite well, my Brutes and Tanks will often favor a punch to get the attention of a single target over Taunting them. Still, Taunt is extremely useful for the -Range compenent, pulling things in close, and the ability to very quickly grab aggro of those not near you, 5 at a time. |
but back on topic I agree with the folks that say - it depends. it depends on what power sets you take (my ice tank may pick it up very late but holds agro pretty darn well with his other powers), it depends on whether you play with the same people most of the time (friends, SG, etc where play style may or may not need a taunting tank), it depends on your personal view of a tank and their role on a team.
personally, using the criteria above, almost all my tanks have taunt. but I don't slam others that don't take it. if I don't think they are pulling their weight in a group, I may not play with them but their choices are their choices. it is one of the main premises of the game and one of the reasons I have been enjoying it for several years.
ATs aren't locked into roles here and tanks don't have to be an aggro monkey.
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I've been on teams where an AR blaster [and it's always an AR blaster] thinks they're the tank. I've been on teams where the Tank thinks they're a scrapper. Defenders as blasters. Controllers as scrappers.
Know your role.
As I, who sometimes plays a fire blaster, needs a tank with taunt to do my best work. I can dish it out, but I can't take it. That's my role. Aggroing half the earth with AoE is an issue if I don't have anyone to help me, and I will aggro half the earth.
Taunt is a very good tool for a tank. Only thing better is holds or mucho killer debuffs. Best is all.
I always take taunt. I feel more efficient and better equiped with it than without it. I am always leary of a tank without it. If a tanks job is getting and keeping agro, taunt is his best friend. imho
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
It's only important if you want to take and hold aggro like a good tank.
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While each AT or powerset might have a certain role, it doesn't have to be overplayed. If somebody wants to make a "pure Emp" or a "taunt-bot", they certainly can. Everybody has the right to choose their own role for their character. This is also were dual-builds can come in very handy. You might pick different powers for solo/duo situations where a "pure Emp" or a "taunt-bot" wouldn't always be very useful. This is there your personal and team playstyles will decide what you should pick next.
Somebody else's build might not work for you. Everybody is different. That's part of the whole concept of this game.
I'm one of the players infamous on the forum for stating that tanks without taunt are bad players, period. A lot of other players in the game don't like that I say this.
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OP, there are scenarios where Taunt can really come in handy. But they're not that often and shouldn't make Taunt a make-or-break power for you. My advice as an avid Tanker: If you find yourself in that situation, use your second build for the trouble spot. You can still be a great tank without it. I know I never get complaints on my taunt-less tanks.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
Taunt is a tool, just like any other power. Take it if you like it, don't if you don't want to.
I tend to take it, map it to the ~ key and use it as part of my attack chain. As I don't usually build for extreme recharge (and almost never take Hasten), I've usually got a small gap in there somewhere to throw in a quick Taunt just to pi** off the mobs even more.
That said, I've got non-Taunt tankers that are just as viable. They tend to be a bit more Scranker type builds though, with more focus on personal damage output.
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I tend to take it, map it to the ~ key and use it as part of my attack chain. As I don't usually build for extreme recharge (and almost never take Hasten), I've usually got a small gap in there somewhere to throw in a quick Taunt just to pi** off the mobs even more. |
I like doing this also, and if you have a couple of spare slots to stick in there for Procs, you can even get a bit of damage at no endurance charge
A good tanker can hold aggro well, with or without taunt. But, taking taunt will make any tank instantly better at holding aggro. I happen to like old-school aggro tanking, which means I like taunt. I also like its slot-friendly, endurance-friendly nature.
As at least one other has pointed out, if you're aiming to build a scranker, then there isn't a good reason to take taunt.
It comes down to what your objectives are for the character you're building.
It's worth noting that Taunt only gets 5 enemies max per use. So all you Blasters who "strip the aggro off a Tank without Taunt" are going to strip 11 of his 16 targets off him even if he does Taunt.
I'm all over the map myself -- some of my Tankers have it six-slotted (great set bonuses are available), some don't have it at all. One has Taunt and Provoke (Granite Tanker, got tired of wishing Taunt had recharged). One determinant is how squeezed I feel for power choices; another is (sometimes) concept.
Also, when I do use Taunt, people who attack before I Taunt, or at the same time as I Taunt, get the aggro just as surely those who attack before I use Gauntlet or before my aggro aura ticks.
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actually, I find that Master Minds can fill in as the pseudo tanker red side as well as, or better than, brutes. several of mine have taunt powers from the power pool.
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Even without a Tankermind build, Masterminds are generally better at absorbing an alpha strike than Brutes are.
I was going to wait until I'd read everything here, but this is wrong.
I've been on teams where an AR blaster [and it's always an AR blaster] thinks they're the tank. I've been on teams where the Tank thinks they're a scrapper. Defenders as blasters. Controllers as scrappers. Know your role. |
The archetypes do have a default role, sure, especially heroside. But with a little bit of planning and skill, any AT can really fill any role.
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I have it at its base slot on any character that takes it (tank/brute), and the base slot has chance for psi damage in it. I like Taunt when it's slotted with that proc. It's almost an attack that way. It almost always hits at least one dude taunted, if not more than one. More damage is more damage! It finds its way into a regular rotation in my attack chain.
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Of course, promoting this use means the cost of the taunt proc is gonna go up now. Thanks, Aggy.
Of course, promoting this use means the cost of the taunt proc is gonna go up now. Thanks, Aggy.
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On a side note, I actually 4-slot it:
Perfect Zinger: Taunt
Perfect Zinger: Taunt/Recharge
Perfect Zinger: Recharge/Accuracy
Perfect Zinger: Chance for Psi damage
Not all four are really necessary, and maybe the accuracy doesn't really even do anything, but I went to 4 to get the set bonuses. Now that I think about it, maybe the Taunt/Range would have been a better choice? Anyway, 3 from that set give you 10% regen, and slotting 4 grants 5% global recharge bonus. Yum. lol
Seconded, basically a somewhat-inaccurate ranged AoE that costs no END. And taunts as a bonus.
Of course, promoting this use means the cost of the taunt proc is gonna go up now. Thanks, Aggy. |
Well, for Tanks anyway. I don't remember if it's auto-hit on brutes and I'm too lazy to look.
edit: unless you're talking about the proc being the actual AoE, in which case, yes.
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If you are having fun and you don't want it, then don't take taunt. This shouldn't be about us, but about you and your moment of glee.
Now the only reason I absolutely have to take taunt on my tankers is because I LOVE to herd. I am the crazy tanker that rushes ahead and continuously grabs 3-5 rooms worth of foes and brings them all back for the Big Ol' Smackdown. I am the type of tanker that wants all 4 AV's on my sorry butt near the end of STF, just to see how long I can last. I am the type of tanker that feels gratifying to steal aggro from all other other visible tankers from the fighting GM. Taunt only helps me accomplish my goal better, and faster.
This tactic isn't for everyone but the feeling of withstanding 30+ foes and your whole party lives to tell about it is enthralling for me. Despite the aggro cap limit, yes, I feel I still handle 30-50 mobs well with little to zero deaths just because of mixing my taunt, my aura, and gauntlet to manage my aggro. Also, I don't consider myself a taunt bot; I feel far from it cause how active I get when I herd.
I am the tanker that relies on tanks / scrankers (and scrappers) like you without taunt for when I get too crazy, and it does happen much like others' blind fury rage on villains. They are there to help me keep the mobs centralized for the AoE's. They are the ones that get secondary aggro before the squishes. They are usually the tankers with higher damage and / or great AoE. You're not just a backup tank, you're my best teammate. For this I thank you for making your tanks.
I'll reiterate what people have been saying: Taunt is only a tool. Use it if it'll improve your play style, otherwise leave it alone and have fun.
I'm one of the players infamous on the forum for stating that tanks without taunt are bad players, period.
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Both groups are idiots. Any blanket statement grouping or excluding everyone is automatically suspect. There is tremendous variation in players and powersets.
Taunt is a tool. Some powersets benefit more from it for aggro control than others. (Willpower seems to be brought up as an example of this quite often.)
My suggestion? On your first tank, take it. See how it works. |
I've taken tanks to 50 both with and without Taunt. I have an invuln built for tanking AVs and GMs. Taunt is vital there, even if I had never intended to tank Hamidon (which I have). If you're a hardcore soloer, it's a complete waste. Somewhere in that middle ground between 'built for GMs' and 'built to solo' is where most of the playerbase falls.
Based on your comment that you "avoid it at all costs", I would say you are making a mistake. Taunt is a significant and unique power - and you have no clue how it works. Oh sure, you may know the numbers on it. You may have seen it in action and had people explain it to you. Not good enough. If you even DREAM of being a serious tanker, you must understand Taunt through personal experience. Then you can judge how important it is for you in relation to various powersets, your playstyle and team participation.
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I was going to wait until I'd read everything here, but this is wrong.
I've been on teams where an AR blaster [and it's always an AR blaster] thinks they're the tank. I've been on teams where the Tank thinks they're a scrapper. Defenders as blasters. Controllers as scrappers. Know your role. |
"Role" is not synonymous with "AT". A controller can buff the team. A scrapper can tank. You see, in this game, tank is both a noun and a verb. The person 'tanking' doesn't have a BE a tank.
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I usually take taunt on my tanks and always on my scrappers.
Having a ranged attack that you can slot that uses 0 end is pretty useful, even solo, but especially if you play +2x8 or x4 or anything else that generates a goodly mob.
Nice to be able to pull. Most scrapper sets don't have a decent range attack.
I tank all the time with my willpower scrapper. Rise To the challenge and taunt and you can really fill the role if you don't have an actual tank.
See, it all depends on the makeup of the team whether this is useful or not. A small team doesn't need me to tank, so I can lay into the bad guys. A bigger team might, depending on what powersets are there. If there are lost of squishies with AOE's I'll off-tank and pick any strays the tank loses and pull them off the beleagured.
Whether is is useful is situational and based on play style.
Are you are a cautious player who thins the herd before charging?
Do you barrel in battle all guns ablazing, using inspires and everything you've got?
Taunt is clearly useful in the first and not so much in the second.
But you ask a hundred people a question and you will get about 70 different answers. Try it, you might like it. If not you can always spec out of it.
Taunt comes down to two things: the player and the build.
Depending on those two factors, there is no wrong answer.
(Although I'd recommend new tankers take it until they get more proficient with aggro management).
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If you haven't joined a global channel, you're not really looking for team.
A number of people will say things like, "Every tank needs Taunt." while others will say, "No tank needs Taunt."
Both groups are idiots. Any blanket statement grouping or excluding everyone is automatically suspect. There is tremendous variation in players and powersets. |
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If you haven't joined a global channel, you're not really looking for team.
For the record, I love tanks, and have only taken it once ever. I asked because the other night I was on, and one of the people on the team was like you gotta get it and I thought, no, I don't but I was like yeah, gonna pick it up soon. I have no problem running into mobs and then let the rest attack. I just don't like the power, and don't like the whole dual build thing either.
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