Should We Continue to Judge Characters Based on Performance at 50?

Just a musing.

For a long time I've looked at characters in terms of their performance at max level. In most games that would be a valid way to do it. In this game however, mechanics make it so that we're frequently cut off from our top level abilities. As of Issue 16 and the ability to gain experience when exemp'ed, I'm now beginning to seriously question the old wisdom. The number of tasks to perform at 50 pales in comparison to things that must be done at lower levels. Performance at 50 is still important, but as of changes in the past year I'm now begining to think that how well a character exemps carries a lot more weight than in the past.

Thoughts?

I don't think that I've ever judge a set or character just based on their performance based on 50. If I've judged their late-game performance, it's been anywhere after level 32, when they get their final power.

I think you should judge character performance based on the level where you like to play them. I rarely play my level 50 characters at levels lower than 50 simply because the only sub-50 content I enjoy are the Striga TFs and I don't do them to much.

Man, if I judged my characters by their performance at any level, I'd have quit this game two years ago. (Note for context: I've been playing for two years and three weeks)

I almost never exemplar for any reason except one-off flashback arcs for accolade badges and task forces for the TFC accolade. Even when I do, I've got teammates that usually more than make up for the loss of set bonuses and powers I'm taking.

I typically build toward lv50 performance with the journey to it in mind. I make certain that my character will still be viable if I decide to SK down. My main character is actually in the process of playing every single arc ever thanks to Oroboros so being able to perform at every level is significantly important. I have never respeced into a "level 50 build".

I agree with the thought process the OP introduces. I have many 50s, my goal is to play a combo of power sets I think would be enjoyable with that ultimate goal of reaching 50. However, As I rarely play any of them (less my main/badger) after reaching 50, I find the question a good one. I enjoy the challenge of taking powers at the levels I do based on the need at the time. If I am training at level 22 and feel my character needs more def/res/mitigation vise damage at that time, I will choose accordingly. I rarely map out my toons with builders. The discovery and tweaking on the fly is half the enjoyment.

This falls right in line with judging the effectiveness of the character at lower levels and building/adjusting as necessary. Once I reach 50, I either just shelf the toon or respec into a "50" build. But, I absolutely take exemping into consideration when I am picking and slotting. The play experience lends itself to that final-ish build.

Yes, I judge characters based on performance at level 50. Who cares if you're a gimp at level 20?

I think when GR comes out and Incarnates ALOT is gonna change.
Anyone see the villain/hero epic swap?

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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary

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Originally Posted by Dispari Yeah, I like Blasters too.

I don't think it's standard to judge a character based on their level 50 performance.

It's probably most common on the boards, since people that come to forums are mostly powergamers.

I personally judge a character on their level 50 and IOd performance, simply because that's where I spent the vast majority of my time playing.

Different strokes for different folks. I enjoy playing with all my powers and IO bonuses. For me, the game really starts at 50. I've got friends for whom hitting 50 means that character basically gets shelved except for events or whatever.

I tend to not exemp down very far because I hate losing access to my powers.

When a character hits 50 I am very unlikely to play them again, so performance at 50 is a non-issue to me. Also, the pace at which characters play can vary quite a bit while I still enjoy playing them, so performance has relatively little to do with my judgments about characters.

Overall, I tend to judge characters purely according to how I feel when I play them. As a set of "baseline" requirements for enjoying a character, I have noticed that I don't enjoy spending a lot of time waiting for my characters' green or blue bars to refill, repeatedly hitting brick walls when fighting certain mobs (although I don't mind being defeated from time to time), or spending a lot of time at the markets building a character up enough to have them perform at a specific level. Still, I would have difficulty finding many reasons to explain why I do or don't enjoy a character, even looking backward in time, and I'm OK with that.

Finally, there is ultimately no "we" here, I think. Each of us judge our characters in our own way, and we'll probably all continue to do that.

With all the new content coming up, especially the incarnate stuff, it would seem that there will be more value in being level fifty in the very near future, at least that's what I'm hoping for. I agree with your idea that right now, there is far more value in 'leveling-up' abilities since most people spend most of their time leveling up toons rather than grinding on their fifties with the games limited 'end-game' content. But in terms of balancing, I think you have to look at both situations, while maybe weighting one more than the other due to which characteristic gets more play.

Hmm...

Level means nothing to me... It can be tweeked by farming, pleveling or whatever...

What I use is pretty simple... how well that person plays its toon, no matter the level.

I have friends that are pretty confortable with what they can do, and that know how to use their abilities at any level of power.

A good tanker player will do a good job at tanking on any level, not only 50. The same thing can be said of all ATs.

A display of power can be faked. Knowledge of how using those powers dont... And I am not talking about cookie-building (no Ulli, not that kind of Cookie). A good player can use an unusual build/combination, and still shine like a star...

"Continue?"

Others do, sure, and if you're one of the sort that only makes a few characters, maxes them out and twinks them, then yes, you should.

For me, though, I'm more interested in what a character does on the way up. For instance, I don't *care* what an IO'd out Plant/Thorn dom does with the PPPs, etc, etc, etc. I'll give it a glance, sure, but it's not in the least interesting to me. Brag about my Plant/Thorn? It'll be about soloing Scrapyard's followers, getting both related badges (not the Gm kill, just the scrapyarders) and keeping on - while they were white and yellow conning to me, so, 25-26. (Leveled doing it.) Had something like a 100:1 kill ratio there before I got bored and left.

Or I'll talk about leveling a Warshade - not play at 50, but the continued influx of "Ooh, neat power - wait, here comes another - oh, wait til you get that one!" as you play it through the levels.

So, yeah. The level 50, IO'd out builds that people generally list are, to me, useless when I'm trying to decide what to do with a character in the 20s-30s.

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There's nothing wrong with looking at performance at 50. Or looking at performance at 20, for that matter. As Adeon said, it matters dependent on what you want to do with that character. I have a few characters that generally remain 40+ because that's when they hit the level of performance that I desired. Others bloom much earlier and see a lot of exemplaring.

That said, there is one thing that I think has skewered people's inclination toward high-end builds, and that is the drying up of the mid-level recipe pool. I have builds that reach levels of peak performance at level 50 (perma-hasten, soft-capped defenses, etc.) that I would love to perform better at lower levels. It's markedly more difficult to obtain the recipes required to do so though. If I could acquire most recipes in the range of 30-40 then I think that I very well would.

Personally, I don't enjoy playing low level characters. I love endgame content and doing ridiculous things on IOd toons that I didn't think possible. With such builds, most of my toons become notably more gimped at lower levels, so I rarely malefactor down. (Unless it is to a lvl 45 mission). I am addicted to playing superpowered IO characters- that is my idea of fun. To each his own. I can't wait for Incarnate lvls.

My stable of characters isn't large, so I don't mind exemplaring to any level. I build accordingly, but the lack of mid-level recipes gets annoying sometimes, as others have mentioned.

50 is the max level. 50 is where I work on builds. 50 is where my characters get IOed up.

The only judging I do before 50 on a character is whether it will be fun enough to play to 50. Beyond that, due to how quickly levels go by, there's no point in bothering to analyze pre-50 performance.

For the most part iv never really thought about performance at just level 50 for most of my toons.I perfer to rotate to diffrent PvP Zones at times with the same build.So I tend to make sure I build for all the Zones to be competitive in all PvP feilds.

The Exemplar system is by far a great advancement in this game.I was recently on a +4 Battle Maiden Farm with a level 18 Scrapper.I gained a single level and 3 bars from start to finish.I went back to the sewers right after that and joined a newby lvl 2 sewer team and gain 2 and a half levels in the same amount of time it took to do the +4 Farm.

The only reason for this was even at +4, the farm was sub-par to what I could get in Sewers.Maybe because the experiance was slower due to the enemies not going down very easly.Either way, there may be a mechanic imight have become aware of recently.That involves what I call a throw back experiance.

I made a Blaster and at level 1 I dropped a solo Fallen Buckshot of level 2.It gave me 4 bars of experiance.I then took out a level 1 Fallen Buckshot.It gave me 5 bars.1 Bar away from level up.

This made me think, Maybe I was just seeing things?So I made sure.I erased the blaster, and remade it again and found another level 1 Fallen Buckshot.I killed it, and I got Bar bars.Then i found a level 2 Bucksshot,.....and got 4 bars.

Im not completely sure, either it was just a odd circumstance, or a bug, but whatever it was, it makes me question harder content in a solo format.

"Continue to"? I never have. *cackles*

I have a very hard time playing a character that isn't fun by level 25ish. That's just not acceptable. I'm not here to gaze somberly into the distance, awaiting a time when I can have fun. No, I'm gonna have a blast NOW. Maybe that's why I've never gotten anywhere with a bland weapon-wielding powerset.
"You get Crowd Control in only twelve levels!"
"But I'm not having fun!"
"But you will be having fun!"
"Why wait when I can have fun right now?"

Also, I exemplar all. the freaking. time.
Friends are playing new characters? EX into sewer runs! TF going on and I have time for once? EX into the task force! I'm bored and a mission team is advertizing? EX into newspaper mission team!
I did this before the Powers 5 Levels Above EX'd Level awesomeness and the Exemplar XP too. So it's all even better now! I build characters with this in mind too! When going for set bonuses, I try and make sure they apply by level 30 (or the level I get that power, whichever is higher). I don't fill my low levels with nothing but CJ/Hurdle/Health/OtherSupportingPowers.

And I still challenge myself when Exemplarifying down into a group by being reckless beyond belief. Actually, I sorta do that all the time.

Anyway! My basic point is that I don't play late bloomers unless I really truly love their concept. They're boring for like 75% of the game. I'm not a fan of that.