Seriously fix EM (and TA)
Stone Melee is the suck compared to EM's ST damage per SOs. True story.
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If a set is supposed to be really good at what it does, and sacrifices in other areas to do so, it had damn well better be really good. EM just isn't there anymore, because many other sets come close to or exceed its single-target output while also providing more utility and AoE output.
Personally, I'd like to see a few changes made to the set:
* Give Stun's animation to Energy Transfer. This shaves 0.87 seconds off ET's animation time (lowering from 2.67 to 1.8), which is still 80% longer than ET's original animation but no longer means the two heavy hitters have really long animations).
* Give the old Energy Transfer animation to Stun. This shaves 0.8 seconds off of Stun's animation, so you could decrease the stun duration and/or increase the recharge to compensate.
* Increase the self-damage portion of Energy Transfer. I'm not exactly sure what scale it uses (I see Tankers and Stalkers take about 170 damage while Brutes take more like 160), but that could be increased by 50ish points. Currently the self-damage from ET is trivial except in low-health situations, but if the self-damage is increased it would mean using the power would require a bit more thought.
* If at that point it's still decided that EM isn't the best single-target set (as it should be - somehow Fire manages to outpace it even though it has superior AoE), increase the radius of Whirling Hands to 10 feet. Actually, every melee PBAoE attack that's set to 8 feet should be increased to 10 feet.
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I'll throw in my two cents about energy melee.
Pre-nerf it may have been unbalanced in a game where PVP couldn't be tailored to work differently, it also may have been unbalanced (pre-nerf) in a solo game where mob adjustment wasn't available.
The problem is that post-nerf in todays game with PVP only adjustments and mob size adjustment it lacks far behind most sets.
Is it honestly that beneficial to be able to consistently stun one or two mobs when facing settings set for 4-8? Is single target damage that beneficial when on teams or facing anything other than x1 difficulty? Is great single target damage worth it when it damages you for a significant amount of damage?
My answer and experience says no. EM does lack behinf other sets, and even if it were retroactively buffed to its pre-nerf state wouldnt over perform in todays game. Of course this is my opinion, but you will not see me rolling another EM unless some serious set changes occur.
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Stone Melee is the suck compared to EM's ST damage per SOs. True story.
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edit: ET isn't even the highest DPA attack attack brutes/tanks get anymore. In fact it isn't a particularly remarkable attack at all anymore. But that's all I want to say at this point in time because if I've learned one thing recently it is that the people we think know these things don't. And I rarely like he who must not be named's changes, so this is one issue I'm not going to draw attention to.
I looked into Whirling Hands a bit this morning and if I were to change it I doubt the change would rock peoples world. Better chance to stun, longer duration of stun and slightly lower rechg to get more AoE Dam + Stun/time out of it and that'll be it.
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I'm still trying to figure out what's the string of attacks one uses to obtain that DPS with Energy Melee.
I've yet to figure it out. I keep hoping that MAYBE if I can figure it out Energy Melee might not feel that bad, but as is, I hate playing Energy Melee now. :/ It feels way to slow now.
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I looked into Whirling Hands a bit this morning and if I were to change it I doubt the change would rock peoples world. Better chance to stun, longer duration of stun and slightly lower rechg to get more AoE Dam + Stun/time out of it and that'll be it.
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I'd be happy with any combination of those things. The gist of it is that it would be a MUCH better set if WH did a little better job at keeping minions stunned.
IMHExperience, that would be sufficient to bring EM up to par w/ SM.
Though I would be very happy to trade some damage, end cost, or recharge (or some combination thereof) for activation speed from either TF or ET too.
Btw, EM has the best, next to Fire, ST DPS with SOs. It's mitigation is also extremely effective against a single foe. Where EM's stuns really shine is when you pair the Set with a synergistic primary or secondary like Dark Armor. I found my DA/EM tank very handy at making tough spawns into kittens. True, my damage was low for AoE and my use of ET or TF was saved for Bosses, EBS or AVs but that never mattered since I used him for teaming, and damage was brought by the damage dealers.
I love EM threads. You can saying anything in support of EM and watch the anti-EMers swarm like flies on ****.
Weeee, around the carousel some more!
Btw, EM has the best, next to Fire, ST DPS with SOs. It's mitigation is also extremely effective against a single foe. Where EM's stuns really shine is when you pair the Set with a synergistic primary or secondary like Dark Armor. I found my DA/EM tank very handy at making tough spawns into kittens. True, my damage was low for AoE and my use of ET or TF was saved for Bosses, EBS or AVs but that never mattered since I used him for teaming, and damage was brought by the damage dealers.
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Btw, EM has the best, next to Fire, ST DPS with SOs. It's mitigation is also extremely effective against a single foe. Where EM's stuns really shine is when you pair the Set with a synergistic primary or secondary like Dark Armor. I found my DA/EM tank very handy at making tough spawns into kittens. True, my damage was low for AoE and my use of ET or TF was saved for Bosses, EBS or AVs but that never mattered since I used him for teaming, and damage was brought by the damage dealers.
I love EM threads. You can saying anything in support of EM and watch the anti-EMers swarm like flies on ****. Weeee, around the carousel some more! |
My tanks take damage and deliver quite a bit too. Sorry yours doesn't, it sounds about as useful as a pure Emp.
TA's biggest problems are NOT animation times and an unreliable OSA. These are minor issues. TA's biggest problems are that its numbers stink. Run the numbers vs. DA, since as debuff sets they are very comparable. One example: Tar patch, a level 2 power gives -30% resist and 90% slow, while Disruption arrow, a level 28 TA power, gives -15% resist and no other effects.
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But you're missing the point. Tar Patch does -30% res and -90% run speed. Acid Arrow does -15% res and -20% def (and DM has no -def) with Disruption Arrow applying an additional -15% res. Glue Arrow inflicts the same slow effect as Tar Patch, plus -20% recharge (which DM can't do). To a single target, Entangling Arrow applies an additional -10% spd and -10% rech. Ice Arrow and Petrifying Gaze are the same... except Ice Arrow applies -10% spd and -10% rech as well. Poison Gas Arrow applies -20% damage, while Darkest Night applies -30% and Twilight Grasp applies -10%.
The long animation times in TA are it's biggest issue, because while TA's effects make it comparable to other debuff sets, TA's effects are spread out among multiple powers. The only place TA can shine with a single power is EMP Arrow, but that's almost identical to Radiation Emission's EM Pulse and it's not a power you can use every spawn.
Compare Flash Arrow with Fearsome Stare while your at it. TA numbers just suck.
Your blatant cherrypicking regarding Flash Arrow doesn't speak well of your argument - level 50 AVs are not what one is fighting most of the time. As others point out, TA is still far worse here. But against normal targets, things like Fearsome Stare are game changing while Flash Arrow is barely noticeable. |
I wasn't cherrypicking with my earlier side comment. I was pointing out a quirk of Flash Arrow that is often missed when people look at the power. Flash Arrow has an unresistable -tohit. IIRC, the only unresistable -tohit available to players. Dark Miasma, lauded as the tohit debuffing set (rightly earned: on a Corruptor or Mastermind, DM has 35% tohit debuffs, plus a pet which can apply an additional 55% -- base values). A level 50 AV will resist 85% of most debuffs (including tohit), lowering DM to 5.25% (self, unslotted) and 8.25% (Dark Servant, unslotted). Flash Arrow remains 5%. With slotting, the numbers change to ~7.875% (self), ~12.375% (Dark Servant), and ~7.5% (Flash Arrow).
My point was that while Flash Arrow normally has little effect in preventing team damage (in normal gameplay, it's more useful for stealthing due to the -perception and the fact that it doesn't cause aggro), that small quirk of its design makes the single power on-par with 2 click powers and a toggle from the set known for its tohit debuffs (and two of those 3 powers in DM are tied for third-strongest -tohit powers available to players, behind Dark Servant's Chill of the Night and Dark Blast's Blackstar).
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..EM is fine..only those with weak toons moan about it..it does the job thee end..
Tho TA does need a buffing. As a TA'er both corr and once defender..it doesnt perform as well as it can do compare to others
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Energy Melee is currently an underperforming set and this is undenible. Its single target damage was reduced with the nerf while its pathetic AOE capabilties were neglected. Other than concept I can see no logical reason to pick EM. Super Strength , Fire Melee and Stone Melee seem to be very close with EM on single target damage yet these have much better AOE damage and in the case of Stone and SS they have better mitigation as well.
Solution 1:
Buff Whilring Hands by increasing its radius and chance to stun. Have the Stun duration last only a couple of seconds at most. This would make WH more like Foot Stomp to where it can reduce incoming damage except it would do it through Stun rather than KB. If the devs are feeling generous they can slightly improve its damage as well.
Solution 2:
Make Total Focus an AOE like Thunderstrike.
Solution 3:
Make Energy Transfer a PBAOE
A forth solution would be to simply lift the nerf and retore ET to its former strength but I feel it more benefical to the overall game based around team play for Energy Melee to get better AOE capabilities.
I do not play TA so I should not give a comment.
Althought I doubt Energy Transfer will ever be changed again in damage or animation (unless possible alternative animation), how about adding a 15 feet PBAoE knockdown (70% chance) along with the single damage and chance of stun to one single foe? This way, it remains fairly high powered against one foe, and it can now knockdown enemies around you (look at the animation and sound effect for it, it would probably fit).
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Could say yer..if i was moaning..No where did i say its usless as it is..i enjoy TA, but if it was to be looked at then it needs a buff..otherwise..go with the flow.
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Then you go to say TA could use a buff.
I was saying people could go about and say the same thing in reverse.
EM does need some tweaking, maybe in the recharge department of ET. One could easily lower the recharge of ET, and say the -health aspect makes up for it.
Maybe if the attack was able to be used more often would make up for the fact that one does alot of "wooosh! enemy already dead" on teams, that you know, didn't really happen before the change.
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..EM is fine..only those with weak toons moan about it..it does the job thee end..
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Tho TA does need a buffing. As a TA'er both corr and once defender..it doesnt perform as well as it can do compare to others |
Sarcasm..I approve this
I just read a quote by castle and ghost falcon regarding powerset balance where their response was "is it fun." It came from the late april Q&A I am pretty sure. This solidifies the sets (EM) imbalance -by their own terms- to me...
I just don't get statements like that. The change hurt some situations for ET, but... "Unplayable?"
I like EM, in some situations. My EM/EA brute was my first Villainside 50, and was often one of the last ones standing when a situation went south. Plus, pre-I13 PVP, that character often got cussed out as a "(*&$##$ Stalker" - as well as being warned about in broadcast, because "her stuns are brutal." (Slotted a stun duration in most attacks.) Of course, I also *played* that character like a "heavy Stalker," too. It shines with fewer, tougher enemies. On the flipside, one variant of my namesake character is a Fire/EM tank. On a tank, currently? No, I don't like EM on a fire tank. (This character hit 50 fairly recently.) That's where the ST focus doesn't help. Also, this character didn't really PVP pre-I13, and doesn't all that much after. I don't think EM works as well as a normal "tanking" set and doesn't have all that much synergy with Fire/. It feels somewhat disjointed. Pair it with a set that doesn't want a bunch of enemies around to "feed" something or that has some other drawback or AOE focus and you'll probably have a better experience with it. |
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I just read a quote by castle and ghost falcon regarding powerset balance where their response was "is it fun." It came from the late april Q&A I am pretty sure. This solidifies the sets (EM) imbalance -by their own terms- to me...
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If I was against the right enemies, yup, I'd one shot a minion every time it was up. That was about it.
yes in PvP I was able to deliver a quick 1-2. So what? Did me no good except against a few squishies.
EM used to be fun, and now it's not. And what I can't decide is if it's because I still hate the new animation or because it's a long animation. Maybe it's both. But I know when they made the change, I kept arguing to change the animation.
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I just read a quote by castle and ghost falcon regarding powerset balance where their response was "is it fun." It came from the late april Q&A I am pretty sure. This solidifies the sets (EM) imbalance -by their own terms- to me...
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I suppose in the way a bag of golf clubs could be said to be balanced for a particular course
As stated already, EM, as a whole, sucks unless you've got one big bad about to tear you a new one and they need to go down or be mezzed quickly. I used to have an Energy/Inv Brute, who I did delete after the ET change.. I spend alot of time looking at numbers, and I knew it was a tough hit so I decided not to go through with it.
I've got a few ideas on what could be done with EM.. As usual, the animations *could* be cut down, with Energy Transfer's animation regained and/or Total Focus sped up, but then a real form of good group mitigation is still missing.. Well, that got me thinking.
With Energy Transfer and Total Focus, when you hit the enemy there is a large burst of energy to give it more oomph. How about adding a low mag AoE stun to one of the two powers, or to both? Like Thunderstrike has the knockdown and damage element, Energy Transfer could maybe let loose a Mag 2 stun for several seconds?
Another idea is turning Barrage into a very short range cone.. I don't know, to me the animation and name suggests it could be used to hit several enemies, like Shadow Maul.
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