Seriously fix EM (and TA)

Both sets are underperforming. You dont hear someone mention either set without having the arguements come up. If the arguement is that prevalent, you need to at least look into it.

How the cottage house rule didnt apply to the ET nerf I dont know, but when you make the power animation 2.5 times longer on THE SET DEFINING POWER, You have changed that ENTIRE set. Theres no way around it. No reason behind the nerf can change that fact. You completely changed the way the set works with a nerf, and did not buff it anywhere else. In fact, you accompanied the nerf with another nerf (though much smaller in effect for the melee AT's, but still.) Now you have people deleting their level 50 EM toons, rather than play them. The playstyle is crap.

Ive been spending most of my time creating new toons and running PuG's and I couldnt tell you the last time I saw an EM toon. And hundreds of threads say Im not the only one.

TA is just lackluster. you get every debuff in the game, but in such small incraments that its rather ineffective, especially since its an all debuff set with 0 buffing abilities. It should not be getting outdebuffed by sets that have buffs. Especially with OSA like it is, poorly WAI at best.

I mean cmon, both sets arent getting played for a reason. They dont have any downfalls that arent balance related making them unliked (think dark armor and pre power customization.) TA sort of does with redraw, but I dont think thats an underlined issue like the dustball effect was. ****, EM looks steazy as hell with power customization, but if no one wants to get one passed the sign in screen, that doesnt do much for them.

If theres another powerset thats downright ignored, toss it out there. Those are just the two prominent ones I always think about.

ET is still weirdly unbalanced in that it animates faster than Total Focus, even though Total Focus does less damage.

I can't help but feel this is a fairly negative approach. You'd probably generate more discussion and less arguing by saying "X has problems, and Y might be a valid fix" than just saying that fixes need to happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RabidBrian How the cottage house rule didnt apply to the ET nerf I dont know,

I do. It's because the power's effects weren't changed. It applies the hurt in liberal doses to an enemy, in exchange for hurting yourself. It just takes longer to do it. Cottage rule is about completely replacing one power with what is effectively another.

Following my own advice of trying to keep things constructive, I honestly think ET could use a little work. Speed it up a bit again (not as much as before, perhaps, say do some animation switching like with Claws and give ET Stun's look), and increase the self-damage in exchange. Make the power an actual decision to use, so to speak, rather than giving the feeling that its downside is easily mitigated.

Okay, a few things here.

Yes, ET does more damage in a shorter amount of time, but it also damages the caster, so there is that to consider, too.

Secondly, the ET change didn't break the Cottage Rule because it didn't change the basic nature of the power. It is still a high-damage power with a decent stun. It didn't change the power into a PBAoE -DamRes toggle, or anything like that.

Thirdly, I doubt that the OP has numbers to back up how many players are deleting level 50 EM toons. Nor do I believe that he could find hundreds of threads on the matter. Hyperbole doesn't make your point any better. It weakens it.


Now, the two sets might be underperforming. EM is still a good set for single target damage. However, it's AoE is pathetically weak. While good against strong, single targets, it performs well. However, against 95% of the game's content, it is pretty bad. Boosting Whirling Hands would help the set out a lot.

Trick Arrow is being discussed in a much better thread, and as such, I think the dicussion should be left there.

Ya, around we go again!

And to fan some flames. EM is fine as-is; great ST damage and mitigation coupled with poor AoE damage and mitigation capabilities.

Where "fine" means "beyond worthless on teams."

I think BillZ has the final word on how well EM is performing.

This is his chart of single target damage set comparison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba Powerset DPS EPS Brute Fiery 172.6 3.1 Brute Energy 157.5 3.3 Scrap Energy 151 3.3 Scrap Claws 149.6 2.9 Brute Claws 149.5 2.9 Scrap Fiery 149.3 3.1 Brute Warmace 148 3.7 Brute Dark 143.7 3.1 Brute Martial Arts 143.7 3.6 Scrap Strength 142.1 2.9 Scrap Dark 141.6 3.1 Scrap Martial Arts 141.5 3.6 Scrap Warmace 141 3.7 Brute Stone 137.5 3.5 Scrap Dual Blades 136.3 3.5 Brute Dual Blades 134.8 3.5 Scrap Stone 131.8 3.5 Brute Katana 131.2 3.2 Brute Battleaxe 129.3 3.2 Scrap Katana 128.6 3.2 Brute Strength 127.3 2.9 Brute Broadsword 124.9 3.1 Scrap Battleaxe 123.3 3.2 Scrap Broadsword 121.7 3.1 Brute Electric 106.6 2.9 Scrap Electric 103.6 2.9 Brute Spines 93.4 1.6 Scrap Spines 80.1 1.6

Notice that EM is only behind fire for damage with brutes, and would be the top performing scrapper set.

EDIT: Curse you Bill! You beat me to the topic.

I don't argue that EM is near worthless to teams, but if a set is top dog in one department and offers good mitigation, it has to suffer somewhere else.

EM is not fine as it is. What EM can do, other sets can do it way better, and without damaging the caster.

Hey, I won't resist another opportunity to take a potshot at TA as currently designed.

As the rare person who has actually played a TA Corruptor up to high levels, I'd like to point out that I've yet to meet anyone else who has done so and thinks TA is any good. It's motto should be 'It's like Dark, except half the numbers and no pet and no heal'.

This isnt a thread to discuss how to change EM (or TA), theres already dozens of those. This thread is just calling it to the front of the forum page again, and I will do this until its dealt with. If youde like to share your changes, go for it. After all, when you ask for change, you ARE asking how.

The basic nature of the power was changed completely. It used to be a quick activating attack that is now a -very- slow activating attack. They changed the basic nature of the power when it went from having the 2nd fastest melee attack animation -IN THE GAME- to the 3rd slowest melee attack animation -IN THE GAME.- (going solely by the attack animation time, some animations may be <slightly> different than others but share the same activation time. Top 2 are 3.3 and 3.07 seconds.) Take out AoE/cone (mult enemy) melee attacks from the equation and it becomes number 2, behind only TF, WHICH IS IN THE SAME SET! When you go from one extreme to the other, I would have to say youve changed the basic nature of it.

I dont have numbers to back my statement up because its impossible to create them without being given the information from the devs, which they wouldnt do (if they can even gather such a random stat.) Im going off of coalie and channel chat and postings on the boards where people state theyve deleted a 50 EM toon. Though since I never tossed out an exact number for the statement, I dont know why this even matters. Two people doing it makes my statement true, so yes I DO have the numbers to back my statement up thankyouverymuch.

Hyperbole is only ineffective when it falls upon the ears of people who lack any social skill. If hyperbole was ineffective, you wouldnt have studied shakespeare throughout your schooling.

agreed.

My Invuln/EM tank taunts, stacks, and watches the whole crowd die before I can land two attacks. Lotsa fun there.

My EM/WP Brute, I only solo with him now, and a lot less since the change.

I'm just playing a /TA in the upper levels for the first time, so will abstian from that part of the argument. But if Trickshooter thinks TA needs a buff (and he does) then it probably does.

"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho

It's a ST DPS chart comparing level 50 characters using common IOs, without Hasten. SM is filled with quick animating, slow recharging moves, so you're only going to see it shine once you put some recharge in it (be it Hasten, set bonuses, better %s through sets, Quickness/LR, external buffs...).

I'd like EM to be *the* top ST damage dealer, esp. with it's self damage component. Shave a second off animation to 1.67sec and increase the -hp by 15 - 20% (hard numbers - no, just throwing them out there. I think that would be reasonable.