Why so much hate about the Mo Badges?
By
Angry_Angel,
Posted on: 2010-05-17 20:40 in Badges and Gladiators
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Very likely that we recruit differently. I've had the absolute pleasure of teaming with many of the Fusion Force, but the group I play with tends to be on the opposite end of the spectrum as far as size.
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Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
I don't get to see the bad attitudes that Snow reports whilst on the same server, buts I am sure that's because we recruit in different ways. Most of the Masters attempts I play are pre-arranged with a majority of the team being SG/Coalition crowd of reliable players.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Oh, for the person that left the following negative rep:
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Thanks for proving my point about the attitudes people have. Also it is "you're" as in "you are", not "your" as in my possessive problem. Also you didn't sign it, so you made the comment in a cowardly fashion. Good show!| I'm starting to think your the problem here. |
I've had years (2.5 years since Issue 11 introduced the MSTF badge) to downgrade my opinion of these badges. It is not something that "just happened". With people repping posts like this example, is it any wonder why I dislike these badges? Where is the effort to promote community? At least Panzerwaffen offered me a chance to try to see how he sees the badge.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Have not had much of the negative experiences that others have had. Maybe EU has it less or... I have been lucky to avoid those attempts. (I will not exclude the latter as mostlikely the correct solution. )
I've been the cause of a failed attempt myself, and sometimes is another. Those I do the attempts with have one mindset "accidents happen". Yes it is bitter if it happens on the last mission, but it could have happened to anyone. Last attempt was this night with a Mo Lady Grey attempt. Our Tank got unlucky and got killed, but in the end...
It did not really matter. We had some experience with lag, RL took one of our trollers and we did not have enough strength to bypass the mag hold of the green mitos. (many deaths and at this point we simply experimented and in the end disbanded as we had no hope of success)
Oh well, we will try again for we will not let that big jello defeat us, however I do hope for a little help from Castle in that we will not need a minimum of 3 dominators/trollers to succeed on this TF.
That would remove the spot for 1 maybe two other AT's (even stalkers... yes, i'm one of them that takes any AT with me).
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While you can do it, it's very impratical. When i started playing, i used to try doing it, but the next day, i'd just log in to see people quitted or didn't log on at the schedulled time.| FYI: You can "break" and come back to it at any time. Yes, your toon is locked to that TF, but so what? If you're tired, you agree on when to come back, you come back nice and refreshed, and own the run. Wanna do something else? Break team, try again another time. Yes, it can be a time commitment, but have you seen the Shard TFs? |
It's even worst when not everyone is from the same time zone. =/
Yep, i did the Shards TF. I'm not going to do them again, even if some weren't that bad. It's a lot easier to find a one-shot 4-5 hours though. Because when you start it, you know you'll finish it "no matter what". You can't actually fail them aside from having too many people quit.
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Originally Posted by PumBumbler
There's a different way to approach Master of _ and it's relatively easy. Just speed run the normal TFs enough and you will know exactly where the hard points are of each TF. |
Sounds like a good plan...except that my playstyle is extremely different when i'm trying an Mo and just running for fun. I'll jump first in spawn or leeroy the AV for the rush of it, and to test just how far i can push myself. I normally don't mind dying, specialy if someone can rez in the team. It's more stressfull trying not to die at all cost.
Anyway, that's just my opinion and why i don't like them personnaly.
P.S. If someone else answered to me, sorry! I stopped reading the topic cause it got so huge in one shot...
"It's a scrapper. If he can't handle it, no one can." -BrandX
Again, from a different perspective from Snow Globe.
I got my Masters Badges (well not Lady Grey yet) on my main badger (Catwhoorg) a long time ago. Everyone bar the MSTF on the first try.
Pretty much anyone in the coalition knows that if they want X for a balanced team, and I'm around/available and have X, they can ask me to bring said character.
I want everyone in my coalition who wants it on their badgers to get it, and am happy to work towards that goal for them.
Its probably no surprise though that of the 4 characters that have the MSTF badge, 3 are defenders, a couple of whom would be Masters several times over if it were tracked. Cat only has the one success under his belt.
So yes, I would say that the Masters Badges build a community, but it probably takes some basic community foundations to build upon.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
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I'm sorry that SnowGlobe has had such bad experiences...for me, its been just the opposite. The "master of" badges are supposed to be challenging..you may not get them the first time nor should you expect to.
I just got MoLGTF this evening running with a PuG from freedom--i personally have had 6 previous attempts, and our leader was on his 8-9th attempt. We had a stalker die, a MM get too much aggro, several badly timed dc's... but no one was made to feel bad if they died. It can happen to anyone and its just a game, I think that's the attitude you need to go in with and not feel entitled to the badge.
As for community building, i think that the Master runs actually promote team building. There are regular runs for kahn, STF, RSF etc that are announced in game and on the forums. I myself tend to run with the same people but the Master runs make me step outside my little circle and meet other great players. For me, Master runs are a great social vehicle and I look forward to getting this on my villain badger.
destiny morna lvl 50 emp /psi defender
mysteria morna lvl 50 ice/kin corruptor
As others have already mentioned here but...yeah I do but do not like the idea of the Mo badges.
My main badger (EI Kin/Rad Defender) has all the Mo badges (except the LGTF one). MoKahn, MoITF were really 'easy' to get...nothing to hard just maybe taking 20-60 minutes longer than usual.
The MoSTF badge on the other hand.... >_> I posted about this on the Liberty forums when I finally got the badge on EI but suffice to say it took me 2+ years to get the badge. So many failed attempts; nothing too bad usually; the usual spots for deaths were the Tree AV, Dr. Aeon or Ghost Widow/Scirocco or LR/The Flyer while fighting LR.
I don't think Liberty even has a "master of" global channel....hmm....might have to make that tomorrow when I get a chance to play (hopefully).
It's hard to get people together to do a Mo run (in my experience on Liberty)....so yeah...when someone dies in a Mo run there is some "*sigh*...grr!" (from me).
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Just like I help any of my SG that wants the badges. I've brought the ONE character that has the MSTF badge to nearly every attempt several friends request of me. |
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
I want everyone in my coalition who wants it on their badgers to get it, and am happy to work towards that goal for them.
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Or like I try to do for anyone wanting any other badge (exploration guide, most GM hunts, task forces). If I'm not committed to something and on, I'll usually help out.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Snow Globe, I've never been on a Mo run myself, and have run normal TF/SF's seldomly. Even so, I can't see why the badge would be to blame, when most of the negativity being noted is clearly due to certain player behavior. Asisnine as that behavior may be, I'm positive that it's not the entire playerbase behaving this way, or I wouldn't be playing this game to begin with.
There will always be elitists and "one way or no way" people, you just need to find those who have the same outlook and/or playstyle as you, and make it a point not to trifle with ones that bag on you or put you down... especially if it's over something as trivial as a badge and/or it's ruining your fun in the game.
I've had bad experiences on occasion doing TF/SF's and regular missions alike, but mostly due to the groups playstyles not meshing well with eachother... when everyone's on the same wavelength things can be golden, even with a PuG, and to me that's the most fun to be had and one of the reasons I'm here. sometimes there are bad runs and sometimes good ones, and that applies to everything not just TF's. If you're not having fun and doing what you want with the group you're playing with, you should probably find a new one.
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That is part of the problem. The group I like playing with most of the time is small. We sometimes fill outside the group and then the problems begin.
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Originally Posted by Mystic_Cross
If you're not having fun and doing what you want with the group you're playing with, you should probably find a new one.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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How is this anyones problem but yours? What your arguing is that a class of badges is bad because you don't have enough friends to make it easy. Just grow up.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
That is part of the problem. The group I like playing with most of the time is small. We sometimes fill outside the group and then the problems begin.
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"If a system can be exploited, it will be exploited. And if a developer thinks their system cannot be exploited, it'll be exploited like a new actress in her first porn movie." Sanya Weather MMORPG Examiner
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Heh, that is entirely the point of speed running a Mo. Once you learn how to zerg the TF it actually makes more sense to keep in the rhythm of your natural pace rather than slowing down. Even if you jump in for the alpha or try to leeroy it, your teammates should never be that far behind you, since coordination is part of good teamwork. A steamrolling speed TF team shouldn't have teammates falling behind; they need to keep the fast pace going.|
Originally Posted by FireWyvern
The speed TFs i'm used to are usually extremely reckless, to try beat the "best time". With LRSF, STF, we also use some shivans, nukes and/or vengeance.
Sounds like a good plan...except that my playstyle is extremely different when i'm trying an Mo and just running for fun. I'll jump first in spawn or leeroy the AV for the rush of it, and to test just how far i can push myself. I normally don't mind dying, specialy if someone can rez in the team. It's more stressfull trying not to die at all cost. |
For the STF, we always aggro all 4 sig AVs to drop them. Of course, on a Mo run you can't use shivans but a well organized team doesn't need them. I rarely use shivans on a normal speed STF nowadays anyhow. Just try to make sure you are def capped before engaging the final AVs and everything will start making sense.
You can def cap by popping insps, using IO builds, emp/FF/cold buffs, intermish/zone stacking, base buffs, even using someone outside the team to buff. The point is that once you get your def high enough you're only worried about the off chance hit. This helps build confidence and ensures the team is well prepared for the end game. Also don't forget to use your accolades.
The point being is that once you stay on your rhythm, it doesn't matter if you pass or fail because you'll get the merit rewards in your speed time anyhow. That way no one really feels that badly that a Mo run had failed. If you go slow you are raising the stakes enormously because people have more time invested in the run.
Most potential failure points are at the end anyhow, so why go slow getting there?
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Anything desirable will bring out the best and the worst in people. This includes contests, loot and "Master of " badges.
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Originally Posted by Mystic_Cross
I can't see why the badge would be to blame, when most of the negativity being noted is clearly due to certain player behavior. Asisnine as that behavior may be, I'm positive that it's not the entire playerbase behaving this way, or I wouldn't be playing this game to begin with.
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Originally Posted by PumBumbler
Anything desirable will bring out the best and the worst in people. This includes contests, loot and "Master of " badges.
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very true, but it's not the contest, loot and "master of" badges fault, it's the persons fault... it doesn't make sense to "hate the badge" or "the contest" or what have you, when the person is the one being a ****, not the item in question.
blaming an object for the actions of a person is nonsensical. for example, charging a gun with murder and letting the one who pulled the trigger go free. objects may give people avenues to behave a certain way, but it's still the choice of the person, not the object, that defines which avenue is traveled.
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That logic is slightly flawed. With that same reasoning no exploits would get fixed because "the exploit doesn't diminish the QoL of most of the players, it is merely the exploiter's fault for doing it."|
Originally Posted by Mystic_Cross
very true, but it's not the contest, loot and "master of" badges fault, it's the persons fault... it doesn't make sense to "hate the badge" or "the contest" or what have you, when the person is the one being a ****, not the item in question.
blaming an object for the actions of a person is nonsensical. for example, charging a gun with murder and letting the one who pulled the trigger go free. objects may give people avenues to behave a certain way, but it's still the choice of the person, not the object, that defines which avenue is traveled. |
Or to directly relate to your analogy, yes guns would need to be controlled more if people were going out and shooting everyone every day. There's a reason why fully automatic guns aren't allowed. There's just a point to where doing something about what facilitates the problem is better than dealing with the ones who actually cause it.
I'm not saying whether or not the "Master of" badges are actually causing this much trouble. ( I do think that maybe the qualifications could be altered some way so that it's less irksome as a whole. ) Just pointing out that that point of view shouldn't be the way we approach this issue.
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I agree with you but the young folks out there want everything handed to them and want things easy for them.
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Originally Posted by James_Donner
I really don't understand why so many people seem to dislike the Master Of X badges? I find them challenging tasks that require concentration, communication and teamwork. But its not that they are super hard to do. Yes, your just gonna be unlucky from time to time but thats no reason to hate the badge (or the people that have it).
So tell me, what do you Like or Dislike about the Master of X badges? |
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Make some new friends then? Teach some of these new guys that come along for the ride the ropes maybe?|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
That is part of the problem. The group I like playing with most of the time is small. We sometimes fill outside the group and then the problems begin.
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Expecting to get a MO badge with pug members on the team is laughable at best and a bad joke at worst.
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I disagree. A solid core of 4 people is all you need to do any MoTF. Ive done many many MoSTFs with semi pick up groups. It is all about comunication and making sure people listen to the leader about the more dangerous areas.
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Originally Posted by Bocus_King
Make some new friends then? Teach some of these new guys that come along for the ride the ropes maybe?
Expecting to get a MO badge with pug members on the team is laughable at best and a bad joke at worst. |
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PUG members do you really expect them to listen though and how is one suppose to make them? Sure it's possible I just wouldn't expect it is all.
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Originally Posted by BlazingTiger
I disagree. A solid core of 4 people is all you need to do any MoTF. Ive done many many MoSTFs with semi pick up groups. It is all about comunication and making sure people listen to the leader about the more dangerous areas.
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Who said it was the entire player base that behaving this way? I certainly didn't. |
Originally Posted by Mystic_Cross
Snow Globe, I've never been on a Mo run myself, and have run normal TF/SF's seldomly. Even so, I can't see why the badge would be to blame, when most of the negativity being noted is clearly due to certain player behavior. Asisnine as that behavior may be, I'm positive that it's not the entire playerbase behaving this way, or I wouldn't be playing this game to begin with.
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Originally Posted by Mystic_Cross
it's still the choice of the person, not the object, that defines which avenue is traveled.
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Originally Posted by GreenFIame
I agree with you but the young folks out there want everything handed to them and want things easy for them.
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http://cit.cohtitan.com/character/727
http://www.badge-hunter.com/view_player.php?id=148
I am more than willing to put the effort into getting the badges. That does not mean that I can't think that the attitudes that they bring is bad for the game.
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Originally Posted by Bocus_King
Teach some of these new guys that come along for the ride the ropes maybe?
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Originally Posted by James_Donner
So tell me, what do you Like or Dislike about the Master of X badges?
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Originally Posted by James_Donner
How is this anyones problem but yours? What your arguing is that a class of badges is bad because you don't have enough friends to make it easy. Just grow up.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
They promote an "Us vs Them" mentality when it comes to badges.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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I actually agree with this. If the badges were made less irksome then the level stress they generate among players would make the attitudes I've seen less likely to happen.|
Originally Posted by Astrolynx
I do think that maybe the qualifications could be altered some way so that it's less irksome as a whole.
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Getting the badge for not being defeated yourself (alone) would nearly eliminate the stress, as you'd only have yourself to blame for not having the badge.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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I haven't heard a lot of hate over master of badges, but definitely some frustration.|
Originally Posted by James_Donner
I really don't understand why so many people seem to dislike the Master Of X badges? I find them challenging tasks that require concentration, communication and teamwork. But its not that they are super hard to do. Yes, your just gonna be unlucky from time to time but thats no reason to hate the badge (or the people that have it).
So tell me, what do you Like or Dislike about the Master of X badges? |
Personally I have never stated my frustration (before now) about them but I am somewhat frustrated with the some of the players that join Master of TFs. I am not a hardcore badger (im up to about 650) but the MoSTF is very desirable to me. It is rare that I have enough time in one sitting to attempt it so when I do I give the missions my complete attention. Many of the MoSTFs I have been on have had a few players who are not all that serious about it and are not paying enough attention.
I have been on about twenty failed MoSTFs. Many of them failed because of a logicistical mistake by a player who was not well instructed by the leader. For example, one failed MoSTF i was on the leader forgot to tell the group to kill the chief last, half the team blasted him first and the ambush ran in from the side while we still had the entire mob on us and the empath went down in a millisecond. It is frustrating, but it happens, I can accept that.
What makes me mad is when people just dont pay attention. I was on a failed MoSTF where a person that i play with occasionally, that started the TF, became complacent and just casually jogged right into LR while chatting with the team. We had breezed through all the AVs including GW and that would have been an easy badge. That pissed me off. I wanted to go to his house and punch him.
What makes me mad is when people dont listen to the leader and think they know better.
I had a MoSTF team that struggled through to the AVs, there was no snipe on the team at all. Now my ice/ice blaster had been asked to pull the AVs one at a time on two previous occasions and with skill (and luck) I was able to get them one at a time, ofcourse the only time I was asked during a Mo I got scorpian and mako. We start tearing into mako and the tank taunts mako then scorpian repeatedly, scorpian ignores us completely, but mako keeps doing this little turn around look before the tank taunts him back. So the tank starts screaming for everyone to move back, we all do except for one person (controller?), the tanks tells her to move back atleast four times, which she ignores, mako is mostly dead, turns and pawns the controller. Long story short, just F***ing do what your told !!!
If youre a player and you join a Mo TF you must completely focus yourself for those few hours. Dont IM your friends. Dont assume you can do what you think is right. Remember that there are other players that take this seriously. If you just want to have some casual fun, that's GREAT, its just a game, BUT do it somewhere else.
And dont get me started on the blaster that thought he could tank a lvl 54 AV on the last mish on the Kahn Mo that we had breezed through.
Because of these reasons I have stopped trying for Mo badges. Until I can find 7 other players that are serious about the badge. I dont care if I fail a hundred times, as long as its not due to stupidity or snobiness.
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So on the one hand you don't have enough friends to play with so you grab some PUG members|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
That is part of the problem. The group I like playing with most of the time is small. We sometimes fill outside the group and then the problems begin.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
This statement is laughable considering how much effort I have put into building the entire "City of" community over the years, and trying to help the badge community specifically. While people might disagree with me, I don't think that anyone that has been around a long time thinks that I am not passionate about helping people either with the game or badges. |
These 2 points contradict each other entirely, so which is it?
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I find emps to be underappreciated... and yes people do blame them when things go wrong. "like they should keep the whole team alive because they can heal" It's the same with monks in Guild Wars... it both cases it's pure BS!!|
Originally Posted by Newty
Personally I have distaste for them as I am an empath within TF's. I rarely ever like doing much else. And well I see Mo TF's as.. if someone dies, the blame instantly goes to the empath for letting that person die.
And I hate feeling responsible for a failed Mo-Attempt, really gets to me. aha. If everything you have ever done since the start of CoX is healing... really gets to you, kinda. Ill be back soon whilest I go rock back and forth in the corner. |
My take on doing a MO is... you succeed as a TEAM and you fail as a TEAM!
Sometimes %@#$ happens, sometimes people make mistakes or do stupid things... that's just part of doing a MO!
The point of it is, you try to get 8 people on the same page, which can be hard to do let alone trying to avoid mishaps. When you succeed it's a great feeling. When you fail it's a pretty crappy feeling. I do them because I like the challenge and I collect badges
It's better to save the Mystery, than surrender to the secret...
The only thing I've noticed is that 1 rad and 1 kin usually make things go alot smoother during the AV fights but they aren't *required*. Skipping the rad and kin usually adds some time to the final battles but it's not a deal breaker.
Once you trust the team can do the task you can get more creative with the individual elements of each TF and the toons you bring. There's never a hard rule for speed running so you should try new things in order to see what kind of effect it has on the team/TF.
Trying new things can wind up in team wiping or slower times but that's how new discoveries are made. As long as your team retains confidence that they can still speed run it no one will be concerned that the task is insurmountable.
AFAIR, my 3rd MoSTF was done with 2 tanks, 3 emps, my ice/storm, a blaster and a scrapper. With the emp buffs I wound up stealing aggro from the tanks and taking a spin cycle from Ghost Widow, yet the emps were sharp enough to keep me alive. No kin/rad/cold/FF on that team