Hello from Paragon Marketing
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2010-04-16 09:39 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I second this. I totally could see watching the current Going Rogue video before IM2 movie. Even though I would assume it would be pretty spendy. lol most would probably think it's a new MMO coming out.
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Originally Posted by Dark_Respite
But I completely agree that ads before films like IRON MAN II or THOR or THE AVENGERS or whatever would not be amiss. A well-done 30-to-60-second clip of the game would garner a good amount of attention. |
"if I am guilty for what goes on in my mind, than give me the electric chair for all my future crimes"
Huzzah! welcome...
Stuff we can have would be awesome.
We need one thing Rikti Monkey Plushies
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Well put.|
Originally Posted by Liquid
We're set in present day. For most games, ads are out of place-- seeing a shampoo ad in Borderlands, Mass Effect, or Dragon Age is going to be totally wrong. But we already have advertisements in the game. They're just fake. Also, we can disable real ads if we want, and return to the fake ads! There are no drawbacks (though I'd suggest reserving some billboards for rotating fake ads so we don't have to miss out on the clever ones while helping the game's revenue).
Here's the deal: for in-game advertising to be both effective and not immersion breaking, you need to have targeted ads, modified ads that fit in the game, and varied ads. The Derek Jeter shoes ad was ineffective for three reasons: 1) We're mostly a bunch of geeks. We're not going to buy expensive sports shoes. If you advertise food or tech stuff in the game, we might actually buy it. A large segment of the MMO population plays their MMO more than they watch TV or read magazines, so that's an opportunity. If there's a billboard advertisement for Mountain Dew Throwback or Papa John's Pizza in CoH, and I see it on a regular basis, it's not only going to make the world feel more real, it's going to be on my mind when I'm thirsty or hungry. 2) The ad was way too clean in the Rogue Isles. It should have been faded with some graffiti on it. It was jarring and annoying. 3) It was the only ad running. If you'd had 4+ different ads running, it would blend in with the city and be less likely to be turned off. Every billboard in my town is not occupied by the same advertiser, and seeing it like that in-game is too ham-fisted and backfires just like when you're watching a TV show and the SAME ad is shown every commercial break (sometimes twice). It serves as an irritation instead of a reminder. |
To add a bit more onto this excellent post:
(1) This is the ONLY game I think I've ever played where I think real-world advertising might actually make the game better. Might. And when "you also get a better game because that revenue pays for more shinies", it's a no brainer. But it is modern, and a mountain dew ad wouldn't even be remotely out of place. Bonus points if the Mtn Dew ad pays homage to the virtual world; "For 'Super' energy, do the Dew!", etc.
(2) For the love of pete, pay attention to #4. Just because we say "yeah, ads are ok", doesn't mean every billboard should be the same ad. Ugh. Keep some fake ads. (And some of them add a lot of flavor.)
Suggestion: try advertising in Archie Comics.
I know, I know, they're not superman comics- but you would be surprised how much it overlaps. Archie comics are almost everywhere- you can even find them in grocery stores these days. They're read by a wide range of people, similar to those who play CoX: from what I have been told, CoX has a wider percentage of both younger and older players then the medium average (as well as a good amount of female players: with all this Desi stuff, I just need to add on that the two W.I.S.D.O.M heroes have quite a resemblance to the boy band posters that I used to hang on my walls as a teenager and I'm sure teenage girls still do). More importantly, I point that an ad for Sony's micro-transaction Free Realms game is on the back of every other Archie digest, and that game's just growing and growing.
T-shirts for your female players would be great, too. Although I think you could use more t-shirt designs, even just babydoll or another 'girl cut' option of the plain blue/red cox ones you have would be lovely. As it is, I know I'd never buy the plain . You might also want to consider long-sleeved shirts, sweaters, bumper stickers, pins, baseball caps, more posters, and zippo lighters: those are big 'most stores have them'.
Try and get some ads even around the internet! The only MMOs who's ads I see are WoW and DDO, but I see them on every free game, facebook page, webcomic, and gaming forum I pop over to.
Hmm my own personal opinion is that the massive mocking the initial Jetter Shoe advert recieved from the community for being just that damn crappy probably soured a lot of advertisers on the reaction.
I'm assuming they would have kept abreast of what people were thinking of the add and having people look at the forums, seeing quite a large segment of population they're targetting actively taking the mickey out of it, denouncing it as rubbish and generally calling it crap probably got Nike to pull their brand from it instead of bothering to make a, you know, good advert.
The problem was that none of the promised things were applied to the adverts until quite near the end of their lifespan.
1) The devs promised that filters would be applied to the adds to make them fit the enviroment, the Jetter shoe advert had no such filters in place so it looked pretty much out of place EVERYWHERE. It wasn't until the last set of adverts did they apply the 'poster look' filter (as seen in my example of the only EU add) and dirty them up for Rogue Isles or make them look ruined in Boomtown.
2) The ad itself was just poor, it honestly did look like a low rez Jpeg of a shoe with 'jetter' written in the corner making the advert look completely half-arsed, the Tony Hawks and Babylon AD one looked a hell of a lot better.
3) It wasn't for a product that I would consider for the target audience playing MMOs, sure they may buy fancy trainers but as mentioned it didn't really fit the target audience. Something like Mountain Dew/Red bull (since we don't get Mountain Dew here in the EU), the latest sci-fi or comic book movie (like the Babylon AD example), just generally better targetted advertising.
Ok only read to page 4 of this 21 page saga but 2 words DOCTOR WHO, this would definitely be a good show to target ads during.
That is just for the US now if it works tell your British counterparts and they might start outnumbering us.
I've read half the thread, so just some general comments:
- The in-game advertising on billboards probably doesn't exist any more, but the real question is what advertiser wants to advertise to what amounts to a niche audience through such a mechanism? Given the small handful of ads that appeared to players, I don't think there are particularly many. That BP appeared surprised to even consider this method makes me think that it isn't going to come back and that he isn't in favour of it.
- Things that CoH/V already has done: advertised in comics, released books, released a card game, almost released an RPG, plus all the usual online channels (banner ads, site promotions, social networks, etc). Just a reminder.
- Why pay Samuraiko to do the CoH/V videos when she currently does them for free and CoH/V already gains all benefits from them? If they are helping to bring people to CoH/V (and I don't think they are, as fun as they may be for the forum population) then Paragon Studios is already getting all the benefits at $0 down. I'd suggest that BP / marketing could certainly be promoting the videos more - Massively.com and the like always want content - but it is an open question about the value that any kind of online video provides to a game. Some boost interest immensely (and these are often the out-of-game CGI promos, not in-game footage), but the vast majority would have no notable impact at all.
- A lot of the suggestions in this thread help promote awareness of CoH/V, but is only a small part of it. The key part is promoting trial of CoH/V and here is where I'll make a suggestion: change the limits on trial accounts so that they can START THEIR OWN TEAMS. The trial player who logs in with a trialling friend only to find that they can't even team up is a pair of triallists who don't hang around long. For anyone who says, "WoW does it that way," CoH/V isn't WoW.
So, there is some data for you BP: find out how the conversion rate on trial accounts before the restrictions came in vs after them. Wash the data if possible to take out gold farmer effects and see what you can do to take in other time-based effects. I've got a strong hunch that the trial restrictions had a very negative impact on this conversion rate by presenting CoH/V in such a limited way to first-time players.
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*sigh*|
Originally Posted by UnSub
- Why pay Samuraiko to do the CoH/V videos when she currently does them for free and CoH/V already gains all benefits from them? If they are helping to bring people to CoH/V (and I don't think they are, as fun as they may be for the forum population) then Paragon Studios is already getting all the benefits at $0 down.
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She requested that I not.
*waves UnSub along*
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
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Actually, I've gotten this question before - the tl;dr version is "why buy the cow when they get the milk for free?" |
Originally Posted by UnSub
- Why pay Samuraiko to do the CoH/V videos when she currently does them for free and CoH/V already gains all benefits from them? If they are helping to bring people to CoH/V (and I don't think they are, as fun as they may be for the forum population) then Paragon Studios is already getting all the benefits at $0 down. I'd suggest that BP / marketing could certainly be promoting the videos more - Massively.com and the like always want content - but it is an open question about the value that any kind of online video provides to a game. Some boost interest immensely (and these are often the out-of-game CGI promos, not in-game footage), but the vast majority would have no notable impact at all.
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The tl;dr answer is, "PS only gets videos from me as I have the time, money, and inclination to make them."
As for whether my vids bring people in/keep people in, good question. If I knew a way of surveying that with a legitimate sample size, as well as validity and reliability, I'd do it. But I don't.
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
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*waves back*|
Originally Posted by Melancton
*sigh*
She requested that I not. *waves UnSub along* |
I'm being devil's advocate here.
Unless Samuraiko announced she is getting paid by PS in a message I missed, what reason does PS have for hiring her? Especially when they have their own internal people to do the same thing and her work is currently free?
EDIT: No disrespect to Samuraiko intended and I apologise for speaking about her as if she isn't around, but this is more in response to the blanket "Hire Samuraiko!" comments. PS does appear to be hiring predominantly fans of CoH/V, but it is a valid question about what they bring to the table.
And there is also the broader issue of how much said videos helps to attract or retain players, and if it is worth the investment.
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You'll have a biased sample, but you can always see if people will comment in various online video locations if they start up a trial to CoH/V after seeing one of your videos. At the very least you could measure your 'value' to PS / CoH/V in terms of total video views.
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Originally Posted by Dark_Respite
As for whether my vids bring people in/keep people in, good question. If I knew a way of surveying that with a legitimate sample size, as well as validity and reliability, I'd do it. But I don't.
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<QR>
Y'all should sponsor a Nascar driver or UFC fighter.
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Originally Posted by psycheout
Ok only read to page 4 of this 21 page saga but 2 words DOCTOR WHO, this would definitely be a good show to target ads during.
That is just for the US now if it works tell your British counterparts and they might start outnumbering us. |
That wouldn't work in the UK simply because there are no adverts during, before or after Doctor who.
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It be true...unlike all other channels the BBC channels are paid for by the British people and thus (you actually need to pay a TV liscence in order to watch ANY TV, money from the liscence funds the BBC) they're not allowed to advertise in any way shape or form.
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Originally Posted by Days_
That wouldn't work in the UK simply because there are no adverts during, before or after Doctor who.
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I would be fascinated to see how Paragon Studious manages branding when they're competing with behemoths such as Blizzard and (soon) Bioware. With (arguably) the worlds' two biggest RPG gaming brands investing in the MMORPG scene it would be of much interest to know what "guerilla tactics" NCSoft uses. 
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There are also a small number of free tables available on a first come basis at Dragon*Con. Usually, they're on the Marquis level of the Marriott, if I recall correctly. I, for one, would be happy to man a table. So if anyone gets this rolling, let me know and I'll volunteer.|
Originally Posted by TonyV
4. Send surrogates to conventions. I'll tell you what. Labor Day weekend, we have a HUMONGOUS convention in Atlanta every year, Dragon*Con. Atlanta is a major national hub, so it draws people from all over the Southeast, some from even further away. I'll contact you once the novelty of your joining us dies down a little bit, and we can talk about getting some people here in the area together to host a booth on behalf of NCsoft/Paragon Studios. I'll personally do the footwork of contacting the people who run the convention, coordinate getting space, help plan activities, gather volunteers to help run the thing. You (Paragon Studios) pay for the floor space, send displays and swag, work with me on what you want to make sure happens (and make sure doesn't happen) in promoting the game, and officially back our promotional efforts to the player community. Together, maybe we can come up with a plan to replicate this effort throughout the country. Again, tonyv@cohtitan.com.
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This is probably not BP's area, but since we're throwing out merch ideas here's mine: custom figures. Harmonix does it for Rock Band and granted the figures are a little pricey, but they're totally worth it. It'd hurt the wallets of those of us with major alt-itis but, again, worth it.
Why not have a real life CoX Costume contest for one of the Cons. I'm sure many have home made costumes like all those people who tried for Who Wants to be a Superhero.
The winner get perhaps a year of CoX free or something like that. Second place autographed pictures of the Dev's characters.
It be both for new players and already established players. It would also cause exposure for the game.
It's cute that it took a marketing person over 6 years to "grace" the forums.
I hate to be "that guy", but I'm not expecting you to really do anything but silence the devs. That's all your department has ever done. You guys operate everything out of fear. That's sad and really bad for the game. If that doesn't change, then just cancel your forum account.
Suggestion from a skeptic: Maybe you could try updating the websites with significant footage of panels / cons / etc BEFORE players have it all over YouTube. It only took 4 months to get Marcus Cole's bio from HeroCon on the Going Rogue website. Players had it on YouTube in under 4 hours.
Another Suggestion: If Marketing was the brain behind destroying the speed and fun of PvP right when it was growing, then maybe you should be the one to own up to the massive failure of the Issue 13 revamp. Then, fix it. The only posts Castle ever makes about it are anti-farming posts. If your department is pulling the strings, step out from behind the curtain and actually do something. (More operating out of fear.)
I personally would pay a lot of money for figures of one or more of my characters, if the quality and fidelity were high.
@SPTrashcan
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Originally Posted by Days_
That wouldn't work in the UK simply because there are no adverts during, before or after Doctor who.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
It be true...unlike all other channels the BBC channels are paid for by the British people and thus (you actually need to pay a TV liscence in order to watch ANY TV, money from the liscence funds the BBC) they're not allowed to advertise in any way shape or form.
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Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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Read the thread. Welcome to ya BP, lotta great ideas in the thread, so i'll probably just end up seconding.
Stuff I'd buy :
- Posters
- Good Quality figures for my alts (ala those 'bow' WoW thingies)
- More varied Shirts & Mugs etc.(Partner up with Think Geek and J!nX)
- Partner up with the popular artists from Deviant Art that frequent the forums maybe, and let players purchase pieces. Different art styles an all that .
- I enjoyed the comic and with our new Art lead, I have hopes for a Graphic Novel to purchase maybe?
Comics good place to advertise.Gonna bet you already thought of that. Archie comics good call by the last poster, but look at online comics too.Even that comic Castle reads.. I mean c'mon.
Consider promoting City, on web shows like Totally Rad Show and iFanboy (on Rev3) , TWiT network (tech community). Maybe pay Amazon a bit to do some targeted ads.iPhone apps for costume designs/ Forum access?, something..you can tell I don't have an iPhone.
Put the Store link on the Main CoX page..seriously.
Anyhoo, I'm glad some focus is going to be put on actually marketing this great game. Due to the tiny stint I had in Marketing, I appreciate the difficulties you face and as a fan here, I encourage you to push for as much exposure as you can.
Pinnacle & Virtue:
A bunch of Heroes - Alpha Team, Legion of Order.
A bunch of Villains -Black Citadel , Pinnache.
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Controversy... I am intrigued.
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Originally Posted by Black Pebble
We do have a booster pack coming out.
And one of the features is something I really really dislike. There was one which was pretty controversial, and involved a 20 minute discussion on a topic I never imagined could happen in a conference room. It addresses one of the most frequently asked topics. One of the posters in this thread correctly guessed one of the features in the booster pack. Another poster, in another thread this week correctly guessed the theme. If I told you guys ANY of the feature(s) in it, War Witch won't let me beta test the WWTF. And I really want to try it out. But I'll try to toss out better hints. |
Marketing? We have marketing now?
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY!!!
Welcome to the team Black Pebble! <3
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Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
Controversy... I am intrigued.
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As am I, but I can imagine it is Furries. I bet the conversation was about the fettish of the same name and how it could be inappropriately expressed in-game. The feature is probably animal heads / body parts.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
What we need is a poster of Sister Psyche and her strategic bath bubbles. That would sell.
Goodbye, I guess.
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