Put on your speculation caps
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-04-05 07:58 in The Market and Inventions
Quote:
That's a single dimensional view of the markets though, profit. The desire to outfit a character is far too often painfully slow red side. Both sides have steaming piles of inf to make for us in their own ways.
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Originally Posted by Tokyo
I laugh all the way to the bank redside. I consider blueside market more of a profiteering joke to be honest.
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total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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There's more to the market than profiteering?
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
That's a single dimensional view of the markets though, profit. The desire to outfit a character is far too often painfully slow red side. Both sides have steaming piles of inf to make for us in their own ways.
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Quote:
Yet another thing the system needs to keep track of? Would this increase market lag?|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
If the Devs are serious about the market being yet another pvp game, i'd love to see names attached to bids and selling items.
This could help those mythical "casual gamers" identify unscrupulous marketteers who may be attempting to manipulate the market to their own ends and it gives us "PvP" marketteers bragging rights. And I'm referring to ANY actions taken on the market..whether it be short-selling, low-ball bids, flippers, etc. With global names being attached to the bids and selling items, the marketteer no longer has the help of anonymity and if they are good, they get to brag.  |
If so, no thanks. If not, it's still not worth the effort of implementing. I don't care who sells or buys what, and people who do care can't do anything with the information beyond rant more on the forums.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tokyo
I laugh all the way to the bank redside. I consider blueside market more of a profiteering joke to be honest.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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For some folks yes. |
Originally Posted by Tokyo
There's more to the market than profiteering?
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EDIT: The actual point to the market is a place to buy and sell IOs. It exists so that you don't have to go use global channels and yell in b-cast like a loon trying to sell your items.
Making a profit doing it is a side item.
Though arguably if you couldn't make a profit selling the junk mobs (and players) drop, they'd be no point to the market. Personally I wouldn't have bothered with IOs if I have to go to 131243243545 people/players and places to get the stuff for one build. Forget trying to IO out multiple alts.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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If naked profiteering were my sole motivation I'd stick a Black Market logo on the flag of my pirate ship.|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
There's more to the market than profiteering?
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Alas, I like to buy stuff as well as sell it....
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
I think it depends on the information provided. However, more information creates a more efficient market. It may be that casual marketeers will lose out to stronger marketeers and those marketeers will make more profit - but I think the "non-participants" - that is, people who use the market to buy and sell but make no effort to trade for gains or marketeer for profit - will get prices for buying and selling that are closer to true value.
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Originally Posted by Mandur12
Do you agree with this statement wrt our market, then? "Increasing public information will broaden the gap between the casual and experienced market participants even further."
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I get money so I can buy things. My satisfaction with the economy has more to do with whether I can buy the things I want than how much money I have, and right now, the lack of supply has more to do with this than lack of information. All the information I really need is encapsulated by "zero sellers, last transaction three months ago". That's why I'm suggesting measures to increase supply, and especially level diversity of supply. If there's one suggestion I've seen that hasn't had a single criticism, it's the idea of letting people set the level of their ticket/merit recipe rolls.
Unless I missed the part where someone explained why this would be bad.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
Quote:
The only thing I can think of that would be a problem with that is you save all your tickets/merits to being full or 50 and then roll for lower stuff which would result in a lack in the markets until people hit their tickets/merits caps or 50.|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
I get money so I can buy things. My satisfaction with the economy has more to do with whether I can buy the things I want than how much money I have, and right now, the lack of supply has more to do with this than lack of information. All the information I really need is encapsulated by "zero sellers, last transaction three months ago". That's why I'm suggesting measures to increase supply, and especially level diversity of supply. If there's one suggestion I've seen that hasn't had a single criticism, it's the idea of letting people set the level of their ticket/merit recipe rolls.
Unless I missed the part where someone explained why this would be bad. |
I'm not sure that would be any worse than the current situation and it might be better because at least it wouldn't all be 50s then.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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As opposed to people saving all their merits until they're 50 and then rolling at 50? I know a lot of people who do this.
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
The only thing I can think of that would be a problem with that is you save all your tickets/merits to being full or 50 and then roll for lower stuff which would result in a lack in the markets until people hit their tickets/merits caps or 50.
I'm not sure that would be any worse than the current situation and it might be better because at least it wouldn't all be 50s then. |
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Merits are just a mess anyway, might as well let people pick their levels.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Oh, I purchase items from the market as well. However, I never buy anything without breaking a 77% profit off of another item I am selling.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
If naked profiteering were my sole motivation I'd stick a Black Market logo on the flag of my pirate ship.
Alas, I like to buy stuff as well as sell it.... |
And if I can't make a 77% profit off the item on the market. I sell it off the market.
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I made a perma dom with perma hasten for 248mil in under 3 days redside. Yes, the rate of purchasing can be slower than blueside in order to outfit your toon. However, if you actively avoid the popularity of certain IOs you can still make fairly cheap and functional builds quickly.
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
That's a single dimensional view of the markets though, profit. The desire to outfit a character is far too often painfully slow red side. Both sides have steaming piles of inf to make for us in their own ways.
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being able to make this or that specific build in a reasonable time frame isn't much of an argument. I can kit out someone with generics just as easily on either side (although red tends to be more expensive). So?|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
I made a perma dom with perma hasten for 248mil in under 3 days redside. Yes, the rate of purchasing can be slower than blueside in order to outfit your toon. However, if you actively avoid the popularity of certain IOs you can still make fairly cheap and functional builds quickly.
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The meaningful measure of comparison is STUFF PEOPLE WANT. Players shouldn't have to actively avoid some sets just because they like playing villains.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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If Praetoria and Going Rogue delivers we won't have to for much longer either.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
being able to make this or that specific build in a reasonable time frame isn't much of an argument. I can kit out someone with generics just as easily on either side (although red tends to be more expensive). So?
The meaningful measure of comparison is STUFF PEOPLE WANT. Players shouldn't have to actively avoid some sets just because they like playing villains. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Here's hoping!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
What they should do:
Double the merits you get by doing anything.
Reexamine merits awarded for villain content, ESPECIALLY giving a bonus to hard content rather than just long content (I.E. recognize that the LRSF is way too low and the tedious hero TFs are too high).
Grant both merits and HOs after Hami so their supply doesn't compete
Add HOs and purples to the merit vendors
Merge markets or even make it easy to transfer inf and items across
Make every IO level independent, IE there is simply 1 version of the IO, and its effectiveness grows with your level, which would increase market efficiency
Add inf sink to incarnate levels
What they will do:
Add inf sink to incarnate levels
Next try to tackle the issue of 90% of the population being vigilante after GR has been out a while
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
Chaos, is that an "all of the above" or an "any of the above" list? Cause there's ... quite a lot... on there.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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Yeah really.|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
Chaos, is that an "all of the above" or an "any of the above" list? Cause there's ... quite a lot... on there.
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I don't think there is any way they can do ALL OF THAT in one shot.
Not with as much OTHER stuff they have to do for GR.
Hell, merging the markets ALONE would be work.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
Work I do not believe they will ever do. We would see market caps before they would ever merge them.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Yeah really.
I don't think there is any way they can do ALL OF THAT in one shot. Not with as much OTHER stuff they have to do for GR. Hell, merging the markets ALONE would be work. |
But I am terribly excited about I17 next Wednesday so I can roll up my Demon/dark mastermind.
Since my warshade is finally all set with purples I needed something new to do.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Quote:
Definitely any. I'm just tossing out most of the things I can think of that would improve the market, including long term.|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
Chaos, is that an "all of the above" or an "any of the above" list? Cause there's ... quite a lot... on there.
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There is no way that merging the markets is viable before GR if it's a "database nightmare" as Posi said.
Feasibly, what they could do reasonably fast includes doubling the value or rate of merits, buffing LRSF, and letting people use email to send inf (and items if not a database issue) across factions.
I do think that level independent IOs would be a huge improvement, but that's more of a long term goal.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
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I see it as the obvious low-hanging fruit, myself. It depends on how much developer time would be spent tweaking the reward tables versus making the level slider in the roll interface do something besides filter the list of available items. Or are we talking about different things?|
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
I do think that level independent IOs would be a huge improvement, but that's more of a long term goal.
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Edit: I see we are talking about different things. I'm still waving the flag for setting the level of reward rolls, which was not on your list.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
Quote:
The problem with implementing that sort of thing at this point is dealing with the salvage. If the salvage required is determined by character level that presents one set of problems due to different availability of salvage tiers and if it is fixed that presents another set, specifically the devs would need to try and balance the salvage requirements based on the actual distribution available on the market.|
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
I do think that level independent IOs would be a huge improvement, but that's more of a long term goal.
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Personally I'd like to see something a little bit different. Eliminate all set IOs that have a level that isn't a multiple of 5 (existing ones would probably need to be grandfathered in, so this would only apply to new drops) and change the level for set bonus retention from 3 to 5. This would cluster the lower level IOs at specific levels while the increase in level range for set bonuses would mean that for any desired exemp level people can always go up to the nearest set IO level and have it work.
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That wouldn't address the main reason for level independent IOs: low supply at any level other than 50.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
The problem with implementing that sort of thing at this point is dealing with the salvage. If the salvage required is determined by character level that presents one set of problems due to different availability of salvage tiers and if it is fixed that presents another set, specifically the devs would need to try and balance the salvage requirements based on the actual distribution available on the market.
Personally I'd like to see something a little bit different. Eliminate all set IOs that have a level that isn't a multiple of 5 (existing ones would probably need to be grandfathered in, so this would only apply to new drops) and change the level for set bonus retention from 3 to 5. This would cluster the lower level IOs at specific levels while the increase in level range for set bonuses would mean that for any desired exemp level people can always go up to the nearest set IO level and have it work. |
There are some ways to address salvage tiers: Make everything 1 tier, provide conversions, let each recipe use any of the 3 tiers, etc.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
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No, but it would make it easier to find the supply that is available. It would need to be combined with other changes (such as the ability to set the level of random rolls) to truly increase the supply but it would be a start.
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Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
That wouldn't address the main reason for level independent IOs: low supply at any level other than 50.
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It'd be fun to see how long it takes on average for an item to sell also.
Just so that we can all LAUGH OUT LOUD at the BM even more.