What keeps CoX from being the TOP MMO?
By
Agonus,
Posted on: 2010-03-23 03:33 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I believe that would cause South Korea to explode.
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Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
In my humble opinion, only a couple of simple things:
1) It needs to be made by Blizzard 2) It would need to be based in the Starcraft universe. |
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
Also, WoW can run on a crappy onboard motherboard gfx card and still be okay, till you go to Iron Forge 
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See I can't quite figure out people because of this. People say that coh has no content and everything is repetitive but wow has more repetition than any game out there right now. As an example you will probably do dungeons such as forge of souls more a couple 100 times just to grind dungeon tokens or insert other dungeons into the equation. |
Originally Posted by StrykerX
Because apparently "mainstream" MMO players really want to use orcs and elves to kill the same stupid dragon or lich or whatever over and over for months at a time so they can get all the uber-gear they need to kill the next dragon or lich.  |
Truth be told you do the same thing over and over more in wow than you will in coh and not just on one character but every character you make.
Friends don't let friends buy an ncsoft controlled project.
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Plus, you don't get to wear spandex over there.
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Originally Posted by Noyjitat
See I can't quite figure out people because of this. People say that coh has no content and everything is repetitive but wow has more repetition than any game out there right now. As an example you will probably do dungeons such as forge of souls more a couple 100 times just to grind dungeon tokens or insert other dungeons into the equation.
Truth be told you do the same thing over and over more in wow than you will in coh and not just on one character but every character you make. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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In interest of historical veracity: Galileo's issue was the heliocentric view of the solar system. He proved it mathematically... and was judged guilty of heresy anyway.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
...Galileo was mocked for saying the Earth was round, because everyone else believed it to be flat. Once it was PROVEN to be round, everyone accepted it like they'd always known. The fact that 5 years earlier they believed the exact opposite was never even considered.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei
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I wish I had copied and pasted what I thought would counter WoW. I thought a Dungeons and Dragons MMO could have been a viable rival to WoW if they had done this:|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
In my humble opinion, only a couple of simple things:
1) It needs to be made by Blizzard 2) It would need to be based in the Starcraft universe. |
Based it on 3.5 edition (not sure if the current D&D MMO is)
Included epic levels
Expansion packs up to and including Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, Dragonlance, Eberron, et al Maybe even an expansion dedicated to other planes of existance
But look at what the D&D MMO turned out to be instead. I guess I shouldn't have set my expectations so high. (And after that, I don't anymore, for any game. Except Super Street Fighter 4. I get to be Guy again.
)
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Have they ever said why they don't advertise on tv or anything? I love the mac/pc-style hero/villain commercials on youtube, but I've heard that that's the only place to find them.
Why no advertising? I want to see a wow-like commercial where some washed-up celeb stands there like "I'm (celeb name), and I'm a Zombie Mastermind".
It's not your generic elves and humans setting.
It's not made by a major development team.
It's not linked to an established universe.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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Originally Posted by beyeajus
Have they ever said why they don't advertise on tv or anything? I love the mac/pc-style hero/villain commercials on youtube, but I've heard that that's the only place to find them.
Why no advertising? I want to see a wow-like commercial where some washed-up celeb stands there like "I'm (celeb name), and I'm a Zombie Mastermind". |
Because it costs lots and lots (and lots) of monies.
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There is 1 key difference. You are doing the same thing over and over, but in wow you have a goal. You might be grinding the same few dungeons 100 times, but generally for better gear so you can move on to better things (ie the latest raid encounters). The ability to progress your character (non-rp wise) in anyway is simply appealing to many, which is what I feel CoX lacks. |
Originally Posted by Noyjitat
See I can't quite figure out people because of this. People say that coh has no content and everything is repetitive but wow has more repetition than any game out there right now. As an example you will probably do dungeons such as forge of souls more a couple 100 times just to grind dungeon tokens or insert other dungeons into the equation.
Truth be told you do the same thing over and over more in wow than you will in coh and not just on one character but every character you make. |
Personally I can not wait for the end game system Posi is working to arrive. I would love to dust off some of my L50's for some advancement.
Nothing's Impossible; Just Improbable.
Hey look, someone that calls themselves "Healer" is saying that WoW does something better than CoX!
I'm shocked!
I respect Blizzard for what they do, which is to make high-quality games that are basically ripped from everyone who ever made a successful game in that respective genre, even if that was Blizzard themselves to begin with. The WarCraft series is particularly amusing, in that it basically takes an established RTS framework and runs with it.
The original Warcraft was built around the C&C model, as seen in Dune 2: Battle for Arakis. One main construction yard that every other building has to be connected to either directly or via other buildings and roads. From there, you pick from a small selection of units and use a graphical representation of Dunes Move To/Attack/Etc/Etc menu. It's a good game. A better game, in fact, but it's not a unique idea. I'm not familiar with the rest of the Warcraft series, as their timelines begin to blur a great deal in my head, but I do know that they ape each other quite a bit. Not unexpected, but hardly innovation.
That's really not to insult Blizzard or insinuate they steal. It's good business. Find something someone else did that worked, then do it better. A LOT better. It's a perfectly legitimate, perfectly reasonable business model, and indeed one few companies manage to pull off. What Blizzard have always had working for them is sheer quality and luxury. Their games feel polished, complete, thought-out. They have cinematics, they have good graphics, they have wide-scale voice-overs, they have impressive if corny plots, they have lots of backstory. They're basically one serious piece of work written around a proven idea. Solid, dependable, profitable.
Of course, that wasn't always the case. Blizzard started out with games like The Lost Vikings and Blackthorne, which in their own right are unique, original games, even if Blackthrone does ape the Prince of Persia a fair bit, but then who didn't at the time? Flashback certainly did, as did Abe's Odyssey, and no-one ever brings that up.
City of Heroes is an inherently innovative project, and as such has no established fanbase. Even though our actual subscriber base may not be huge, we've seen a lot of churn here, and the age of super hero MMOs seems to only keep getting richer. In another 10 years, of MMOs are still as popular, a City of Heroes knockoff might well prove to be the dealbreaker WoW was. But right now, this is a niche game. In fact, a niche intersection game. It aims to attract people who are both comic book fans AND MMO fans, and these customer bases just don't intersect by as much as you'd think. Either people like comic books but aren't too hot on that MMO thing, or they like MMOs, and are naturally fantasy fans, because that's practically what MMOs have been ever since they were invented.
As far as I'm concerned, for this game to be the next WoW, it just has to have been made about 10 years from now by an established developer with a large-scale fanbase. For what we have, I don't think we're doing too bad. Considering this is a game that's getting on six years and still hasn't gone the way of the Matrix Online or Tabula Rasa or Auto Assault, all innovative niche games in their own right, I still count this as a decent success.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I'm personally of the opinion that WoW's success is at least 90% attributable to the fact that it has "Blizzard Entertainment" on the box, but I can address the other points as well...|
Originally Posted by cp2_4eva
I was reading the massive awards page and thought to myself, "What would it take for CoX to be better than WoW?" This might be a hard question to answer other than one obvious solution.....WoW disappears.
But outside of that how is it that WoW remains on top? Is it that it has longevity? Is it that it's genre is the most popular? Is it that it has great expansion packs? Is it the graphics? What gives? I've been playing CoX on and off for a number of years now and I hate seeing the numbers dwindle. The streets are much more quiet than they used to be. Less raids going on. Ah, but the costume contests are still a plenty....in which I rarely win unless I happen to catch an early morning CC where like 10 people are there. (BIASED JUDGES!) I just want to see CoX reign supreme. Do you think Going Rogue and Ultra Mode will help alot or just a little? I wonder how many folks will even be able to enjoy ultra mode with the system requirements and all. |
Longevity: Well, yes, but CoX has longevity too. More than WoW, actually, I believe.
Expansion packs: No real comment; in my experience, each new expansion actually tends to upset the hardcore players because of perceived concessions to casual players.
Graphics: WoW has actually, perhaps oddly, made a point over the years of keeping its graphics relatively simplistic compared to its competition. People make fun of WoW's poor character models (and they are pretty poor) and general cartoony look (more so, ironically, than CoH), but what they miss in this fact is that WoW is capable of running on an extremely wide range of hardware - you can play WoW passably well even on cheap integrated graphics. I had a friend who used to raid decently well (low FPS, but playable) on a computer that could barely handle CoV at absolutely minimum settings.
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We have this to an extent (grinding TFs for merits), although it's less evident than when you used to get recipes directly.
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Originally Posted by Fabled_Healer
There is 1 key difference. You are doing the same thing over and over, but in wow you have a goal. You might be grinding the same few dungeons 100 times, but generally for better gear so you can move on to better things (ie the latest raid encounters). The ability to progress your character (non-rp wise) in anyway is simply appealing to many, which is what I feel CoX lacks.
Personally I can not wait for the end game system Posi is working to arrive. I would love to dust off some of my L50's for some advancement. |
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The current D&D Online is really a fairly faithful representation of 3.5's rules, or at least as close to them as you can get (IMO) in a real-time game environment. The only setting they used is Eberron, but Eberron's definitely not a bad setting, IMO (your mileage may vary). |
Originally Posted by Nightphall
I wish I had copied and pasted what I thought would counter WoW. I thought a Dungeons and Dragons MMO could have been a viable rival to WoW if they had done this:
Based it on 3.5 edition (not sure if the current D&D MMO is) Included epic levels Expansion packs up to and including Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, Dragonlance, Eberron, et al Maybe even an expansion dedicated to other planes of existance But look at what the D&D MMO turned out to be instead. I guess I shouldn't have set my expectations so high. (And after that, I don't anymore, for any game. Except Super Street Fighter 4. I get to be Guy again. ) |
I actually wish they would hurry up and get a PC game out of some kind (single player or MMO, either way) based off 4E's rules, because those rules are _perfect_ for a video game and I'm shocked no one's taken it up yet.
But, for what it's worth, DDO is my second-favorite MMO to play after CoX, and I enjoy it for a lot of the same reasons I enjoy CoX - it's just less refined in those aspects than our game is.
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I can agree with that but in coh you also have the goal of perfecting your character and trying out different builds. Until you are able to do things the common hero can't do. You can see just how powerful IO and set bonus characters are compared to people that still use SOs.|
Originally Posted by Fabled_Healer
There is 1 key difference. You are doing the same thing over and over, but in wow you have a goal. You might be grinding the same few dungeons 100 times, but generally for better gear so you can move on to better things (ie the latest raid encounters). The ability to progress your character (non-rp wise) in anyway is simply appealing to many, which is what I feel CoX lacks.
Personally I can not wait for the end game system Posi is working to arrive. I would love to dust off some of my L50's for some advancement. |
Atleast its been a goal of mine for awhile. As an example, I was able to make a Ice/Ice tanker that has as much defense as a shield tank. Where as every ice tank I had teamed with thus far was always dying too quickly or always having to use hibernate to survive.
Friends don't let friends buy an ncsoft controlled project.
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I wouldn't say that anyone really has to do that because our game has a nice trading community where all of the really nice stuff isn't bind on pick up. I really hope that never happens either.... Its one of the nice things about coh and to me it would totally ruin the game if I suddenly found myself having to enhancement and recipe grinds on all of my characters just to bring them up to par in each expansion. |
Originally Posted by Reiska
We have this to an extent (grinding TFs for merits), although it's less evident than when you used to get recipes directly.
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Being able to spend my earned inf to improve my characters is much more enjoyable. I'd rather do the content for fun rather than make a job out of the game.
Friends don't let friends buy an ncsoft controlled project.
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For most players of The Other Game, that's what they do (play the content for fun). To them, their instances are our Task Forces, and we know how hard people will grind ITF, LGTF, etc etc etc...| I'd rather do the content for fun rather than make a job out of the game. |
When people say Cities has no endgame and that it's about the journey, I start to sympathize with the people that facepalm, these days. People here say "omg grinding the same dungeon over and over", well.. what do you think making character number 36 and going through the same content is?
Speaking personally, WoW's high-level dungeons and encounters feel different overall, whereas the general feel of Cities' encounters, individually and overall, is very samey. Even on the ones that do feel different in Cities, people avoid them as hard as possible, but the variation is often fairly trivial, and often involves rendering a certain AT (or powerset) or two irrelevant, even if unintentionally. (The Respec Trial for blues and both sides' Reichsman are examples of what I'd consider good variation without rendering things irrelevant, but seem to be sadly underused.)
Dawncaller - The Circle of Dawn
Too many blasted alts to list, but all on Virtue.
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You know, I keep reading these posts, and they keep not making any sense to me. WoW's graphics are ugly (yes, I went there) for the most part, but that doesn't mean it runs on all kinds of systems. In fact, my WoW-playing friend was constantly struggling with technical problems because he doesn't happen to have as easy a time with affording computer parts as even I do. I have a SERIOUS laptop I used to lend him. The thing has s a dual core, pretty powerful processor, a GeForce 7900GTX video card and I think a couple of GB of RAM. That's not really bleeding edge these days, but I got this laptop in 2007, and it was better than my desktop PC. That thing is a beast, and even on that practically anything in Northrend would lag him into a slideshow unless he brought his graphics down into the utterly bare minimum.|
Originally Posted by Reiska
Graphics: WoW has actually, perhaps oddly, made a point over the years of keeping its graphics relatively simplistic compared to its competition. People make fun of WoW's poor character models (and they are pretty poor) and general cartoony look (more so, ironically, than CoH), but what they miss in this fact is that WoW is capable of running on an extremely wide range of hardware - you can play WoW passably well even on cheap integrated graphics. I had a friend who used to raid decently well (low FPS, but playable) on a computer that could barely handle CoV at absolutely minimum settings.
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He has his own laptop now, one he got from his brother. I don't know exactly what's in it, and I do know it has a pretty decent processor, but it has some kind of integrated unknown-brand video card in it that performs even worse for wear. And that's not an old machine, either.
And, from what I hear, WoW's Cataclysm is about to upgrade their engine with even more bells and whistles and redesign the old lands to lag as much as Northrend. The idea that WoW will run on any stack of box crates you plug into a wall socket may have been true at one point, but it's a complete myth as of right now, as far as I'm concerned. Sure, the lands that lag a lot DO look incredibly impressive (from high up in the air), but run on everything it will not.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I figure all the new Super Hero movies will help Iron Man 2, Captain America, Avengers, Ant-Man (?), Thor, Spidey reboot (rumor), Hellboy 3 (i think) These are all coming out 2010-2012.
People will get into Super Heroes again and find this game the same way i did, google "Super Hero mmo"
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Heh. I found out about this game in an issue of Game Informer (around the same time that Final Fantasy X was released) but didn't see an actual ad until I read an issue of JLA in 2004. I didn't get my PC until 2006 though......|
Originally Posted by Slope
I figure all the new Super Hero movies will help Iron Man 2, Captain America, Avengers, Ant-Man (?), Thor, Spidey reboot (rumor), Hellboy 3 (i think) These are all coming out 2010-2012.
People will get into Super Heroes again and find this game the same way i did, google "Super Hero mmo" |
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Want more people to play? Drop the subscription price. I know, .50 a day isn't much but at .33 per I think we'd pickup about 200k and at .25 hit the million mark. You can't convince the bean counters of this, though. So we have a 6 year old game, one of the best on the market IMO, and seemingly unable to grow.
One thing is I don't know the prices of other subscription MMO's, are most of them around the same as this one?
36 level 50's in various servers...haven't been here in a while. It's now over 50
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*pulls up a lawn chair, grabs his favorite nachos*
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Originally Posted by Ar_Kain
Want more people to play? Drop the subscription price. I know, .50 a day isn't much but at .33 per I think we'd pickup about 200k and at .25 hit the million mark. You can't convince the bean counters of this, though. So we have a 6 year old game, one of the best on the market IMO, and seemingly unable to grow.
One thing is I don't know the prices of other subscription MMO's, are most of them around the same as this one? |
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More or less.|
Originally Posted by Ar_Kain
One thing is I don't know the prices of other subscription MMO's, are most of them around the same as this one?
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"Fifteen dollars a month" seems to be the standard. This means around fifteen US dollars a month for the basic monthly subscription, which is usually around US$14.95 or something. Buying in three-month or six-month or yearly packages lowers the average monthly price, which the payment options page is usually quick to point out.
Every MMOG (for a given value of "MMOG"; I'm assuming graphical games with some sort of player avatar engaging in some sort of coded activity along with others in an online world) I've encountered works on this model, or free-to-play with microtransactions.
I honestly have no idea where the "fifteen dollars a month" figure came from, or why it's so persistent despite global economic trends.
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1) It needs to be made by Blizzard
2) It would need to be based in the Starcraft universe.