What keeps CoX from being the TOP MMO?
By
Agonus,
Posted on: 2010-03-23 03:33 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Lord Nemesis is down with the street.
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Originally Posted by ebon3
A) No street cred
B) No giant spiders C) No polar bears. Give CO* Street Cred, Polar Bears, and Giant Spiders and this game will RULE the MMO market! |
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... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.
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Originally Posted by ebon3
A) No street cred
B) No giant spiders C) No polar bears. |
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No one was expecting that reply.
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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while i think you sell natural subscription decline too short, The years of the freem 15 did tend to relegate the game to a much smaller scale, i agree with you entirely there. they did amazing things with what they had, and issue 10 was one of the stronger releases we had, but reality did keep the scope of things modest. also the long buld up to going rogue, while there were a number of qol improvements that made vets lives infinity easier (ssk, power and animation customization, patrol exp for those of us with jobs and personal lives springs to mind) I do think that it has felt like something of a holding pattern, and hope to see things change with post gr coh.
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Originally Posted by Slashman
I do remember this being the case. Most MMOs at the time were still fixed firmly on only doing boxed expansions.
Which is about the time some genius decided that 15 people were more than enough to keep developing a large MMO which just recently launched a new expansion, which itself needed some work done on it(and still does IMO). I honestly think that those lean years are what kept us from growing(along with poor marketing) more than any 'natural' MMO decline. |
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It's possible that I am selling it short. However, I always get a sense of 'natural' subscription decline being also about what's still being put into the game and how well the game itself is evolving.|
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
while i think you sell natural subscription decline too short,
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I've always thought that an MMO is the sort of game that should gradually grow. Simply because it can change. When a normal single-player PC game is released, it won't usually change very significantly in terms of what it does and its scope. An MMO is something that can change and evolve.
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| The years of the freem 15 did tend to relegate the game to a much smaller scale, i agree with you entirely there. they did amazing things with what they had, and issue 10 was one of the stronger releases we had, but reality did keep the scope of things modest. |
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| also the long buld up to going rogue, while there were a number of qol improvements that made vets lives infinity easier (ssk, power and animation customization, patrol exp for those of us with jobs and personal lives springs to mind) I do think that it has felt like something of a holding pattern, and hope to see things change with post gr coh. |
Part if it is advertizing. It was the first MMO I knew about.
Ive played several MMOs since and have only played 3 past the first month: WoW, Eve online and CoX(second time around).
I think WoW does a lot of things right:
The size makes the world seem like a world. Anyone that has traveled around in it has seen how massive it really is. Massive use of instancing seperates a lot of people, and makes places seem isolated. Walls seperating everything also makes things seem boxed in.
Variety is also something WoW does a lot of. There has been times there where I have days without doing a single quest or instance. Spending 4 hours on a quiet Sunday morning fishing has got to be one of the most relaxing times I have had in a video game.
Blizzard has worked hard to make questing not equal " go (gather/kill) (number) (Object/mob)", and have stopped making you travel long distances for a short task or having to return.
They have greatly streamlined getting groups for most anything. I read a lot about how the grouping interface in CoX is great, WoWs is 10x greater. The fact I can pick what instance I want to do, select role and hit enter, then have it put all required people in group and put me into instance is great.
The ability to customize my UI and put things where I like them and personalize the look, is a something I really enjoy.
All that said, CoX is a great game, but needs some improvement. I like being able to not have to worry about wearing ugly clothes to be able to play effectively.
The variety you have in AT, while confusing to a newer player, is quite enjoyable. It make your char feel more like your own and not a cloned copy of someone else's.
I think the setting and genre is something people can more relate to while still having a fantasy element to it. Travel powers are great and something I really enjoy over a more standard mount style travel.
The community has to be by far the strongest thing going for it. I am amazed that I have not been in a bad PUG yet, and have not ran into extremely rude people.
I first tried CoX a few years ago and stayed about a week. My impression was that it was a lot like one of those free Korean MMO grindfests. After 11 whole levels, I was tired of doing what felt like the same mission again.
IMO, to improve CoX, I would make it lest instanced dependent and open up the world a bit. I would add variety to missions and other side activites, like badges, to persue.
Play on the games strong points. Super heroes seem to be a big thing in the past few years, the box office sales seem to show people like super heroes. If people can stay interested long enough to start interacting with the community, Im sure they will want to stay.
Advertizing must be done as well. CoX seems to be the best kept secret. I heard of WoW and EvE online through advertizing and people talking about it. Both of those games have good qualities to make you want to hang around and play. I've played other MMOs that had some good buzz, but really had nothing to offer but a gimmic or two. Nothing worth sticking around over. But CoX I heard from word of mouth from a friend's husband that played. I am suprized with how great this game is for how little is heard about it.
I guess the real question is: Do we really want CoX to be the top MMO? I don't, it attracts a bad community(for proof look at the WoW forums, more trolls and snide coments than any actual help). I think CoX would be perfect if it were polished a bit more and advertized some, get some more players in.
Wow, longer than I expected, I'm going to stop rambling now.
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Daygonit! Forgot about that rascal, and I was so impressed when I first ran that TF with my blaster. Used to the other big critters in the game, I hovered to right about where I figured was max range and got mysnipe ready then.... nothing. I had to move closer and that spider got alot bigger.|
Originally Posted by Lucky
oh we have a giant spider didn't you know. The jade spider http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/File:JadeSpider1.jpg.
It is in one of the oura TFs it's huge and super tough |
Anyways what I really meant to say was, we dont have Rularru, cause everybody knows Rularru is the most dangerous insect in the insect kingdom
(and he's really big too).Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
No one was expecting that reply.
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------->"Sic Semper Tyrannis"<-------
Hey all,
I'm just now catching up to this thread. Don't feel that I can add anything new but yes, superheroes as an offshoot of the broader Sci-Fi/Fantasy market are rather a niche prospect, even with the success of the Spider-Man and Batman films of late.
Case in point...I'm a 41 year old that still actively buys and collects comics. Now there's probably more of you than ya might think, but certainly for 41 year-olds overall, I'm in a vast minority. And proud to be that way!
I did want to suggest to those of you who have (correctly) mentioned the lack of meaningful CoX advertising...that perhaps YOU do something to promote the game! F'rinstance, in the 4+ years I've been playing, my wife has two active accounts. I've gotten three friends into the game (only one of which is currently active, but still), and gotten subscriptions for two of my four stepkids. Therefore, my interest in CoX has garnered them three subscrption sales, two CoV Deluxe Edition boxes (one for each of us, natch), and five additional subscription sales with an average subscription time of 5 months.
YOU like the game? YOU wanna promote it? DO it! Take it to the streets, people! Let's grass-roots this mamma-jamma!
- Green Lantern
"Say, Jim...woo! That's a bad out-FIT!" - Superman: The Movie
Me 'n my posse: http://www.citygametracker.com/site/....php?user=5608
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Word.
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Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
CoX is a niche game that appeals to enough people to be profitable. I'm happy with it continuing this way as long as possible. |
- Green Lantern
"Say, Jim...woo! That's a bad out-FIT!" - Superman: The Movie
Me 'n my posse: http://www.citygametracker.com/site/....php?user=5608
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THIS, people. This.
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Originally Posted by Dark_Respite
Keep badgering whoever handles PS's YouTube channel to upload all those videos they have on the FTP site. Draw much attention that way! (Not enough to counter the WoW juggernaut, but every bit helps!)
Michelle aka Samuraiko/Dark_Respite |
- Green Lantern
"Say, Jim...woo! That's a bad out-FIT!" - Superman: The Movie
Me 'n my posse: http://www.citygametracker.com/site/....php?user=5608
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You can team in WoW? |
Originally Posted by Rochlin
They have greatly streamlined getting groups for most anything. I read a lot about how the grouping interface in CoX is great, WoWs is 10x greater. The fact I can pick what instance I want to do, select role and hit enter, then have it put all required people in group and put me into instance is great.
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Speaking as someone who doesn't put teams together, I've been on numerous random teams in CoX, but never once in all the months I played WoW did I get on a team other than with one of my RL friends.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
You can team in WoW?
Speaking as someone who doesn't put teams together, I've been on numerous random teams in CoX, but never once in all the months I played WoW did I get on a team other than with one of my RL friends. |
It's something that has been added recently. Nobody has to start a team. You sign up and the game matches the people needed. Though grouping in WoW isnt recomended unless you have a tolerence for stupidity, or are with friends.
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Doesn't that apply to the whole game? |
Originally Posted by Rochlin
Though grouping in WoW isnt recomended unless you have a tolerence for stupidity
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Doesn't that apply to the whole game?
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Not really. There are good and bad parts to it. Unlike CoX, people in WoW are a bad part.
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I wouldn't call WoW a bad game either. That it has a high concentration of idiots isn't something that the game itself can be faulted for. I do have my own beef with Blizzard because of what they chose to do(the usual 'safe' route) with the game. They could have made something that changed the face of MMOs completely. Instead they just regurgitated everything that's gone before and polished it so shiny that it blinds you.|
Originally Posted by Rochlin
Not really. There are good and bad parts to it. Unlike CoX, people in WoW are a bad part.
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I would, in fact, say that Blizzard's execution of WoW far surpasses COX is some key areas. A good example is how only now after almost 6 years of being told that we didn't need advancement beyond level 50, there is end game content coming with GR. I'm sure a bunch of people will argue that we aren't getting additional levels etc. But a play on words doesn't mean that with the Incarnate system we won't effectively be advancing our toons' abilities beyond what is capable at level 50.
Why be stubborn over something that could have bought more value to your game way before now? It's obvious from other MMOs that people don't like retiring their toons. And while you don't have to retire your level 50 toons in COX, currently there is nothing to advance them in power/status besides IOs. So yeah...we should have had end game content years ago.
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Originally Posted by Slashman
I wouldn't call WoW a bad game either. That it has a high concentration of idiots isn't something that the game itself can be faulted for. I do have my own beef with Blizzard because of what they chose to do(the usual 'safe' route) with the game. They could have made something that changed the face of MMOs completely. Instead they just regurgitated everything that's gone before and polished it so shiny that it blinds you.
I would, in fact, say that Blizzard's execution of WoW far surpasses COX is some key areas. A good example is how only now after almost 6 years of being told that we didn't need advancement beyond level 50, there is end game content coming with GR. I'm sure a bunch of people will argue that we aren't getting additional levels etc. But a play on words doesn't mean that with the Incarnate system we won't effectively be advancing our toons' abilities beyond what is capable at level 50. Why be stubborn over something that could have bought more value to your game way before now? It's obvious from other MMOs that people don't like retiring their toons. And while you don't have to retire your level 50 toons in COX, currently there is nothing to advance them in power/status besides IOs. So yeah...we should have had end game content years ago. |
WoW isnt a bad game. Although you cannot fault a game company for the community, it does impact the game. Thats where CoX shines.
I would like to see CoX take some ideas from more popular MMOs and make them their own. Like what was said, Blizzard didn't make anything really new, just made existing stuff better. If NC Soft did some of the same, they would have something even better as fantasy based MMOs seem to be the norm. WoW is only unique in the ammount of subcribers they have. I could see a lot of potental in the superhero genre. If the gameplay were improves a little and marketed, I think people would really like it, provided they knew about it. After all, most everyone imagined being a superhero as a kid, very few imagined being a elf or orc.
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That's a very good point. I can't ever remember playing a game of orcs and elves when I was a kid. But superheroes? Totally.|
Originally Posted by Rochlin
If the gameplay were improves a little and marketed, I think people would really like it, provided they knew about it. After all, most everyone imagined being a superhero as a kid, very few imagined being a elf or orc.
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I think that the fantasy genre of MMO is a staple because the first major MMOs were fantasy based i.e. Ultima Online and Everquest. Then they followed with Dark Age of Camelot. So yeah...in the end, people came to associate fantasy with MMOs.
I personally still don't think its all a matter of superheroes being a niche. I think that most people who are into comics and superheroes have not heard about COX and probably aren't the people who usually fall into the MMO demographic. If most of the people who were into superhero comics and cartoons played COX, we would have a very sizable player population. We simply haven't reached most of those people.
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What about snazzy red uniforms?
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.
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The primary reasons I've heard for not playing CoH at all are "it's an old game", "I don't want to pay a monthly fee", and "if I wanted to play online I'd play WoW".
The first is partly due to the increase in superhero-type MMOGs, whether released or upcoming. They're getting a lot of advertising, and so people recognize them better. There's the idea that since CoH is an older game, we won't have the better tech the newer games have.
The second I don't think can be helped. Here in East Asia, free MMOGs used to be the norm, until WoW. In fact, apart from WoW, free MMOGs are still the norm.
The third is due to WoW's massive inertia of community size. People are playing WoW because their friends are playing WoW; more people play WoW because the first aforementioned people are now playing it. This seems to be unique to WoW.
Something I've been curious about is the relationship between CoH's reputation for encouraging altitis, and the ability to customize characters (costume or powersets). I suspect the customization leads to altitis, but I don't have any studies or research to back this up.
I've met people who simply could not believe the range of costume options which exist in CoH (and Champions Online, as long as we're at it). They were absolutely thrilled with the customization in Star Trek Online, and when I told them that it was based on CO's much more robust character designer, which in turn I think falls short of CoH's several years of added costume options... I think "liar" was the mildest term used.
Part of the advertising could involve having a form of CoH's character creation somewhere separate from the game client. It doesn't have to be pulled from the game itself; a preview would be sufficient.
In addition, I think part of CoH's niche status is that we seem to be doing things differently from "the norm" (which, again, I think has been influenced by WoW's popularity). For example, we have little to no endgame content, but great progression content, leading to further cries of incredulity when I mentioned that the contact dialogue is readable. It's surprising to me how many MMOG players are conditioned to ignore or skim through contact text, because they are often poorly-written. (And if you believe CoH's contact text to be poorly-written, imagine how the ones in other MMOGs are.)
I see it as having to play another game and learning the keybinds all over again, or even the mouse movements for Y-axis and X-axis rotations. It's unavoidable, but we tend to prefer more familiar things, if we're going to be involved in it for a very long time.
Random: I think the very first time I ever heard of CoH was one of those online quizzes, asking me what sort of superhero I am, based on my answers to various (multiple-choice) scenarios. You know, the sort of quiz you find with banners to paste onto a blog or signature saying "I'm a Mutant hero!" or something.
This was way back pre-alpha, when there were several origins including Magical Artefact and Gadgeteering (which I turned out to be) and such. I mention this because I've been wondering where that sort of thing went. It's silly and trivial, but it is one way to spread the word about this game.
Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue
Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~
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In my humble opinion, only a couple of simple things:|
Originally Posted by cp2_4eva
I was reading the massive awards page and thought to myself, "What would it take for CoX to be better than WoW?" This might be a hard question to answer other than one obvious solution.....WoW disappears.
But outside of that how is it that WoW remains on top? Is it that it has longevity? Is it that it's genre is the most popular? Is it that it has great expansion packs? Is it the graphics? What gives? I've been playing CoX on and off for a number of years now and I hate seeing the numbers dwindle. The streets are much more quiet than they used to be. Less raids going on. Ah, but the costume contests are still a plenty....in which I rarely win unless I happen to catch an early morning CC where like 10 people are there. (BIASED JUDGES!) I just want to see CoX reign supreme. Do you think Going Rogue and Ultra Mode will help alot or just a little? I wonder how many folks will even be able to enjoy ultra mode with the system requirements and all. |
1) It needs to be made by Blizzard
2) It would need to be based in the Starcraft universe.
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Do you plan to animate this into existance?
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Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
In my humble opinion, only a couple of simple things:
1) It needs to be made by Blizzard 2) It would need to be based in the Starcraft universe. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Heheh.
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Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
In my humble opinion, only a couple of simple things:
1) It needs to be made by Blizzard 2) It would need to be based in the Starcraft universe. |
Being made by Blizzard would help, but the main things it would need are:
1) Elves
2) Orcs, Dwarves, and other non-Elf races
3) replace all the urban stuff with medieval castles and forests and such
5) remove all the origins except Magic and Natural
6) make all the enemies fantasy monsters
7) add in 10,000 hours or so worth of endgame gear grind
Because apparently "mainstream" MMO players really want to use orcs and elves to kill the same stupid dragon or lich or whatever over and over for months at a time so they can get all the uber-gear they need to kill the next dragon or lich. 
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
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I'd be ok with a dragon in a medieval time travel zone, but it'd be nice to have that sort of setting, but without elves or dwarfs.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
B) No giant spiders
C) No polar bears.
Give CO* Street Cred, Polar Bears, and Giant Spiders and this game will RULE the MMO market!
oh we have a giant spider didn't you know. The jade spider http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/File:JadeSpider1.jpg.
It is in one of the oura TFs it's huge and super tough