PvP and Badge Hunting Just Don't Mix

To be excessively pithy: the problem with the PvP zone reward structure is that they have the best reward rate when nobody PvPs.

To the PvP players who are having a hard time getting the issue raised by myself, Samuel Tow, and others, consider the following scenario:

The devs in another game decide its a great idea to require you to scratch your backside at a certain point in time during a certain battle, while a camera records what you're doing. If you do as instructed, you get a Shiny Reward at the end of the battle (a +6 buttscratcher or something). The devs in that other game monitor that camera to ensure that you do as your told, and they withhold the +6 buttscratcher if you don't do as you're told.

You like the mission, you enjoy the battle, and you like the +6 buttscratcher. But, you hate having to scratch your backside at the prescribed time while a camera films you doing it. It makes you all shy and stuff, its physically uncomfortable, and you don't see why you should have to scratch your private regions while being filmed to get a +6 buttscratcher. You figure that the devs could have come up with another way for you to get the same reward, without requiring you to do something you dislike, and you'd like for the devs to give you the option to do it another way.

Replace "scratch your private regions while a camera records you doing it" with "enter a PvP zone to get a PvE reward" and you can work out the rest of the analogy from there.

By the way, if you like PvP, good for you and have at it. But, plenty of players don't and they're not going to like it in the future, either. Setting up in-game experiences where a very large percentage of customers can get some things they like and enjoy parts of the experiences to be had in a given part of the game, but only if they endure stuff they intensely dislike as well is poor design; its a great way to end up with frustrated customers and a steady stream of complaints.

That is the larger point being made.

I think many people in this thread have the wrong end of the stick sadly.

What's with all the badgers claiming they're "only in the zone for PVE content"?

There is no PVE content in Recluse's Victory.

It's all PVPVE content.

This means that if you want any of the badges/powers, you have to interact with the environment and other players as enemies.

Trust me. As an avid PVPer, I hate the fact there is PVE content there. (Mus, Longbow, Heavies, turrets, etc.) But I realise the zone is PVPVE so I have to adapt.

Complaining about PVP taking place in a PVPVE zone is as crazy as complaining about PVE taking place in a PVPVE zone.

Longbow/Arachnos aren't going to stop because you ask them nicely. Neither should any player.

/thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf Ok, click here to start the example. As you see, I have 34/40 PvP Badges. I am NOT a PvP'er. I am a PvE'er. More than that, I am a Badge Hunter. 610 Badges has already solidified my status as a Badge Hunter, but of course, I'm not stopping there. I still need several PvP badges that include Heavies and Pillboxes. Oh gee what can I ever do to protect myself from the ebil PvPers in a PvP Zone? Easy. I go when I know the zone will be slow. If I am attacked, I don't cry like a lil kid who got his milk spilled over his mashed potatoes in the kindergarten cafeteria. I simply attempt to fight them off or I make it so boring to attack me that they lose interest. I'm well known enough that most people are bored with trying to PvP me and usually just leave me alone. Learn to be smart about badging if you want badges. Dodge, avoid, scramble and use defensive tactics. Grab a heavy, let it die, hide till it respawns. Pillboxes? Grab a team of friends like in the original post and instead of all lining up to give away your PvP Zone Milk Money, gang up as the team you are and beat the snot out of the Ebil PvP'er. The more you bleed your emotional heart into the PvP waters, the more of a chum you'll be for the sharks. However, an easier way to get badges is to take the offensive. [Broadcast] Shadow Ravenwolf: Heyas and Boogedy Boogedy!! Working on pillboxes and heavy badges. Feel free to team up and help, PST or invite me. If you wanna tag me for quick rep, help me tag badges and I'll raise your rep. That line above usually results in people leaving me alone. However, it's resulted in badge teams several times and we even had cross faction cooperation to spawn AVs for those badges. It has also resulted in many people getting what everyone wants out of the deal, be it Rep, Recipes, Badges, or a new carton of chocolate milk and some fresh mashed taters. Take it for what you want. I'm done here.

Best post in the thread. Really great advice. You don't just expect people to act a certain way for you - that would be called entitlement. You offer something in return.

Quoted it so more people can read it.

I can't help view the people who complain about PvP in a PvP zone as the same people who ***** moan and groan and ask for a supervisor when they come to a store for a "limited time offer while supplies last" deal 5 hours after an event started and can't get there free Barbie car.

If you aren't there at the start of the event you probably aren't getting free crap and the manager can't make some out of thin air. If you enter a PvP zone and PvPers are there you'll probably be attacked and the Devs don't care about it because you agreed already by entering and staying past counter.

The given reason that temp powers such as the Warburg nukes and the Shivan Shards are in PvP zones is to add some modicum of challenge in getting them, as they'd otherwise be considered overpowered (I can somewhat see this, as they put just about every other temp power to shame, and a team of 8 with Shivans out will be out-DPS'd by their own pets). Of course, given that PvP in this game is dead everywhere except two zones on one server (neither of which have any attainable temp powers through zone events), this really isn't an issue anymore. Odds are you won't be bumping into people in your random quests to get these temp powers, and even if you do it should not be more than one or two people. Even a non-PvP-built character played intelligently should at least be able to avoid such a situation.

nvm. it was marking posts as yesterday when i posted.

To be less pithy:

This is the song that never ends.

Let me start with some facts not in dispute.
- PvP zones contain minigames that grant temporary powers with an enormous degree of usefulness in PvE content.
- PvP zones contain minigames that grant badges, some of which lead to accolades with PvE utility.
- These minigames are much easier to complete when nobody is actually PvPing.

So, on the one hand, the stated intent of the zones is for PvP. And on the other hand, the reward structure for the zones pays out much better when no PvP is happening. The winning strategy from a reward over time standpoint is to do everything possible to complete the minigames without ever PvPing. From the standpoint of in game reward over time, actually PvPing is the dumbest thing you can do in a PvP zone. Of course, if you enjoy PvP for its own sake then that all goes out the window, but the mixture of people intent on maximizing reward by avoiding PvP and people intent on maximizing PvP combat is toxic.

If the devs actually wanted to induce players to PvP, they would make the only rewards in PvP come from actually attacking other players (or teaming up to help others do so - I'm no great fan of the I13 everyone-is-a-blaster vision). And they would make those rewards comparable to PvE rewards, scaling from minimal for just participating to excellent for succeeding, so that nobody felt they were wasting their time. This is the only way I can think of to improve the current bile-soaked relationship between those who enjoy PvP and those who prefer rewards.

But what do I know. Carry on with your scuffle.

The problem is that the intent of the design and the consequences of the design do not necessarily have anything to do with each other. Bloody Bay and Warburg may have been designed with the intent of inducing and rewarding PvP, but the actual design is a classic prisoner's dilemma.

PvPers have the stated intent of the devs on their side. PvEers have the actual reward structure on theirs. This is dumb.