Obolishing the Market (WW/BM)

Ok, so I know this is my first post. And I know this will likely get flamed to all get out, but here it is anyway. Before ranting about having bajillions of influence or ruining your uber marketeering skillz.. Please take into consideration that for this game to thrive and continue to grow it needs to be newbie friendly.

I get by decently as a 30 month Vet with 10 50's and all 36 of my character slots filled on Virtue, but at times I struggle to even begin to slot a build the way I planned it. So imagine for a second what it would be like to be a new player looking at the market and seeing 100's of millions of influence for one thing and then their bankroll barely breaking a million. (If they are lucky)

That being said, I propose removing player to player influence transfers, unless you are emailing it (ala i17) to a character on the same account only. Remove all enhancement and recipe drops, and using the system currently in play add an influence bonus, where a dropped recipe would be gained.

Now I'm sure you're wondering where and how we'll get our sets and recipes, right? From a vendor. If there's one thing this game lacks, it's money sinks, and it's quite apparent when looking at the market. Influence is just being passed from player to player ans generated at an astounding rate from drops. Remove ALL salvage...crafting would then be useless. Using the same menu system as currently used in WW/BM, navigating the vendor would be simple.

Make Epics scale from 30-50, rather than just 50 and keep PVP-IOs and the new level scaled Purples as drops that are worth a LOT of influence when sold to a vendor, should you not want them. This will ad the MMO standard "bind on pick-up/bind on equip" to the game that has proven very beneficial among every other MMO out there.

Most of you will just suggest that if people cant afford one thing or another to run TF's and Arcs to gain merits and buy them that way. I couldn't agree more. But that isn't solo friendly, for those who enjoy soloing most of the time. This offers itself to making merits drop from mobs and removing influence all together. The point is having multiple forms of currency and little to no money sinks in the game have allowed the costs to sky rocket which leaves all of the best/most useful enhancements unattainable for 95% of the player base.

The devs hate farming and exploits. So making every mob drop the same amount of influence based on level of the player and minion/leut/boss/EB/AV status, would aid in this. And not needing bajillions of inf would let players make the toons they really want, while just enjoying the game as intended.. rather than farming, exploiting and TF speed running for hours on end, with minimal gain.

I'm not saying the game needs to lessen the time sinks, but it does need more money sinks.. and I think this is the solution.

/ramble
*wipes brow*

Whew!... I hope this makes sense to everyone. Every time I bring it up in game everyone seems to agree with me, aside from the marketeers on my friends list rolling 200-300 million influence into their bankroll daily. And that in itself, sorry guys, is a prime example of why the markets are a bad idea. The devs constantly work on fixing exploits but over look the source of the issue.

Thanks!
Syndyr

While I don't necessarily disagree with this, it should probably go over into the suggestions forum.

*grabs popcorn*

Your intent here seems to be making it easier to get IOs. What I think you are neglecting is that IF the devs were to implement such a system they would almost certainly price the various items so that the time you have to spend grinding for them is equal or longer than is is currently. So switching to this system wouldn't actually make it easier to get items, it would simply remove the various shortcuts you can use to get them faster (such as selling your drops to other players). In other words if they did this they would almost certainly set the prices so that we are FORCED to farm if we want IOs.

If you want proof I'll point you to the merit prices that they set for IOs. The rare enhancements are between 125-275 merits each and even the uncommons are 50-75. That means they expect you to spend between 2.25 and 13.75 hours for every set IO you want (and purples would presumably cost a LOT more). So fully equipping a level 50 with set IOs would take you between 200 hours and 1250 hours of play depending on exactly what you wanted, and goodness only knows how long it would take if you wanted a purpled build. The advantage of the current system is that at the moment you can do an end run around that. Even if you have no interest whatsoever in marketeering or farming there are plenty of IOs which have an inf price far in excess of their merit cost (LotG 7/5%s are the prime example). Trading merits for one or two of those can easily provide the inf required to fully equip a character with a good set of IOs.

Now before you say that the times I quoted above are unrealistic and that the devs would set the prices lower I will point out two things. First off those are based on the prices they set when they introduced the merit system and secondly the merit system was specifically designed for people who wanted to get gear without farming or marketeering. So clearly the devs believe that those sort of time lines ARE reasonable. Secondly this game is casual friendly but not all players are casual players. there are plenty of people who want to have to spend time acquiring a full set of IOs, it's a goal to work towards and for some people that is a good reason for playing the game. They don't want to have full IO sets handed to them on a silver platter. On the other hand IOs are not required for any content so the game itself appeals to both casual and non-casual. Casual players can use SOs and still enjoy everything the game has to offer. Non-casual players have goals to work towards.

tl;dr version: This would be fine for farmers and suck for everyone else.

You have the option of spending one of two things for the IOs you want (note the specific "Want" as opposed to "Need" there.)

Option 1: Inf.
This, obviously, means the market.

Option 2: Time.
Somewhat relates to 1, as the more you play, the more INF you will make, as well as the chance - with patience - of getting recipes or components at less than the high prices you're seeing by leaving a bid on for a while. (yeah, doesn't always work, but other times it does.) Alternately - just *play.* Want that purple? Play your 50s. Want those PVP IOs? PVP. Yes, they're rare. Yes, they take time. But it doesn't cost you a single inf, and market prices mean nothing (until you sell the ones you don't want. Which, of course, gets you inf, which you can use for option 1.)

See my Guides and Tutorials

Back in the old days, I was happy just to have the cash to buy a few SOs to slot. And even then we had to walk barefoot, uphill five miles in the snow to get 'em.
Influence and enhancement slotting is cake already.

What about salvage? Would it still drop and be useful for crafting IOs or base items? Or would you recommend having salvage be up for purchase from vendors as well?

Also, it's "abolish."

A couple true stories from the last 2 weeks:

Was in the KR Wents on Freedom with a L18 scrap doing some minor transactions. Next thing I know I see "Enhancement Gift" pop up. I think to myself, "Cool, I guess they really liked my costume."
Seems they had dropped a L30 rare IO on me, when I finally figured out who it was and sent them a thank you /tell they were nonplussed. Seems it was meant to be passed from her to her hubby and I happen to be in the way lol. So I zipped back there and dropped it on him instead. He thanked me profusely and then a trade window opens up and he drops 50 Million inf on me! If it wasn't for Wents and massive inf my good deed would never have happened or garnered such a massive reward.

2nd story; I was doing some random arc mish with my L22 troller when I got an orange recipe drop. I made my way to Wents and found out it was +Regen IO. Sadly, I could only post it for 500K but since its in such high demand I ended up with 30 million inf! And once again, if it wasn't for Wents this toon wouldn't have ended up with anywhere near that.

So in conclusion, let me just remind you that the devs have stated time and again that the game was not changed to take into account the difference between IOs and SOs. Wents and IOs are a bonus, you simply don't need IOs to be effective but it sure is nice to be rolling in dough because other people want them .

Two things I'll point out...

1) Umm... No!

Adeon's remarks expresses my viewpoint just fine.

2) Suggestions forum This-a-way...


Thank you for the time...

@Travlr (Main) / @Tymers Realm (Test)

<QR>

Obolishing? Is that some kind of political/economics joke combining 'Obama' and 'Abolishing'?

If the problem is "stuff is too expensive" then the solution is "increase drop rates". At least, a significant increase in drop rates across the board would certainly drive down prices, maybe to the point that anyone could buy anything.

In any case, the solution is NOT "throw out the entire crafting and economic system that the Devs have spent several years building."

Also, I think you are making an assumption that everyone should be able to slot out every character of theirs with whatever they want easily... which is an assumption I do not believe the Devs would agree with.

(Except, of course, that I am able to slot out every character of mine with nearly anything I want short of purples -- and others can do the same if they really want to. But it takes time and effort.)

Anyway... no. I don't think your suggestion would improve the game at all. I imagine a world where everyone can softcap their defense or have perma-hasten or perma-dull pain (for a couple of examples), where soloing AVs and entire Task Forces was not just a pretty nifty event but a rather everyday thing, where crafting badges didn't exist because crafting didn't exist, where there was not only no crafting or marketing, but no reason to farm either... where there was no way to improve your character at 50 because you already had everything you needed, no new IOs to shoot for, no need to earn more money, no reason to play your 50 at all except for the enjoyment of it. And trust me, there are a lot of people for whom "the enjoyment of it" alone is not enough of a reason.

Crafting and the market exist to keep people playing and keep them occupied, and to allow people to reach 50 and still have goals to shoot for.

*edit* Oh yeah. I'm not bullish on the word obolish. Abolish it!

I disagree with this suggestion. The game is already very newbie friendly...but there also needs to be items and features for advanced players. Those would be IOs and the market. "Newbie friendly" does not need to mean "everything accessable to every player". Certain things are made to cater to certain subsets of players. These features are among those. As it is, any new player can make their way through the tutorial, get some very good instruction about game basics, and then set about building their knowledge from there. There's even a tutorial available for IOs from level 10 up, and generic IO recipes are already purchasable. If you're looking to put set IOs into your build in the way the OP is talking about, you're no longer a newbie. If you're at the point where you're looking at these things, you're capable of asking what's involved. The system is fine as-is, and with a little patience you can get what you want over time.

NO. No-drop and no-trade items drove me out of Everquest and WoW because I realized that no matter how much time I put in and no matter how much money I accumulated I could not obtain the best of the high end items without belonging to a raiding guild. I do not have the mindset to belong to one of those organizations as I am simply too much of a loose cannon. Those things are of absolutely no benefit to a game in my opinion. So just NO. A thousand times NO.

lol ok first.. thank you to everyone who pointed out the typo.. Abolish. There.

Second, I am by no means stating that I want it to be easier to acquire rare IO's I'm just stating that this would bring balance to the game and eliminate exploiting (via the drop rate rewards as stated) and eliminate RMT's which are in great demand judging by the market prices.

I completely agree that without time sinks the game would die.. all MMOs will die without it. I'm not a number cruncher like some of you but I'm sure the devs could work out a happy medium to current time spent and "future time spent"

This wasn't a post looking for a handout... it was a post to better the economy and set a price standardization across the board and still keep "Lucky Drops" into the system.

Purples and PVP sets remain as drops.

No more player to player inf transfers? What would happen to costume contests???

The game is not balanced around IOs they are extra and not required for the game.

KTHXBAI!

Thankfully, there's no real chance that this will happen.

So to make it short, you think that the game lacks some influence sink, but you complain than WW and BM are influence sinks ?

No. This why I left EQ and I will not play any game that has loot set up like that. The IO system is set up as fair as it can get and it works. Not well at times but it works.