Dual Pistols better then I thought.

I frankly think the detractors of Dual Pistols are trapped in some bizarre alternate dimension where the set didn't get the boost it received in our dimension at the end of closed beta. Seriously people, the damage and recharge times used to be WORSE. Now they're fine.

I've heard it called "Willpower and Shields Syndrome" on the forum; there was a lot of talk about how weak they were when they came out, too.

So, I freely admit we might've been looking at different numbers. However, the ones I saw, during Open Beta, put DP at in the bottom half of all sets for Single Target and Area of Effect. This could be easily balanced by the set having great utility, which it does. However, my experience is that it doesn't have enough. If you can numerically prove me wrong, I'll gladly alter my opinion to 'the style of the set just didn't mesh with me'.

*High five!*

I don't know what's up with those crazy Broadsworders. I tell them "Yeah. Animations. Yours. Suck." but keep getting responses like "it's brutal" or 'Piller of Pain'. *shakes head* The only thing brutal I'll openly admit about BS is the orange numbers...and even those, over time, are overshadowed by faster sets like Claws and Katana.

As for DP, when they improved Piercing Rounds, I was completely content with the set (it's my favorite power)^^

Note your wording of "bottom half." That means there's other sets with similar numbers. Ergo, it's balanced and fine.

Would you prefer the six minute recharge Hail of Bullets and the push-swap-push-swap-push-swap function Change Ammo used to have? Because believe me as someone who was in both closed and open beta, the current version of Dual Pistols is vastly superior to the one we started with.

DP is right near the middle in ST and AoE. It's like 5 out of 10 and 6 out of 10 for each attribute. With incendiary it's like 4/10 and 5/10 or something like that. With SOs, it's right about where it needs to be. It's not another Fire Blast or Archery, but it's not supposed to be.

With IOs, it can fall behind because of its long animations. But the vast majority of people don't use IOs, and the game isn't really balanced around IOs to that degree. The fact is the set is fine with SOs, and is only "a bad set" if you're comparing it with IOs to other sets with IOs. DP with IOs is still better than regular sets without IOs, and DP with SOs is still as good or better than half the sets with SOs.

There's two things dragging people's perception of the set down. Well three actually.

One, people want the set to be really good with IOs. Unfortunately this isn't the type of set that shapes up to the same degree as others when given high recharge. It's hampered by animations. If you're a number cruncher and only care about a set's performance with IOs, compared to other sets with IOs, then yes it's not the set for you. Because of the type of people that post on forums, it makes it seem like this is all everyone cares about. But most players don't crunch numbers or even use IOs like this so it's not that big a deal to them. Using DP with IOs would still yield better performance than the average player.

Two, there's a factor that's hard to quantify, which is the ability to switch ammo types and always be on top of any situation. You can switch to a less resisted damage type, intentionally stack with your debuffs, cooperate with teammates to stack a type of buff, or just pick a damage type you feel like using. Now while it's true if the set was exactly 50% on all points (exactly middleground in all ways, meaning balanced toward being a middleground set) AND had the amazing flexibility, it would be "too good" because average performance + awesome bonus = better than average performance. The issue though is it's really hard to say if 40% + awesome bonus = average performance. Because you can't really quantify "swap ammo." It's possible the devs think the set is balanced because it has the ability to always be in control. If you pick Fire it has top performance on average, but what do you do when you face fire demons? DP doesn't have that issue.

The third thing I mentioned is people want it to be Archery. Archery being one of the most powerful and overpowered blast sets possible. Kind of like how all defense sets are compared to Willpower now, if something's not as good as the top performer, they think it just sucks and isn't worth playing. While it's true DP is no Archery, it's not the bottom of the barrel either.

DP is a solid set. While not the best, it's also not the worst. I still think it could be improved and not be overpowered. Personally, I can think of three or four things I'd do to DP if I was in charge. They're minor things that would push DP up a couple notches, but it still wouldn't be a top performer. I hope the set does get a little nudge. I don't want it to be the next Willpower, but I would like to see threads about how DP fails stop.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

I stopped reading every thread about how gimp/OP such and such is a while back. It ended up ruining certaom sets for me that I find too fun. For example, on my elec blaster, I always felt a little lame because according to the forums that fire blaster over there is always going to out perform me. But im totally losing the point, my question was, what do you mean by the next willpower?

A few of the newest sets that have been introduced have been pretty potent. Thugs is a top performer for MMs. Willpower is usually considered the second most powerful defense set, only under Stone which comes with downsides. Shield is high popularity for farmers and with IOs is a strong set. So a lot of people have high expectations of new sets and don't want them to be low performers. This means even if they're only AVERAGE in numbers people aren't too happy. A lot of people want new sets to be really strong, so would prefer DP to be one of the best sets in the game.

I doubt Castle and Synapse want to create "another Willpower" where every set ends up being compared to it and people complain that set X is nowhere near as good as "Willpower" and should be buffed. Or "Willpower" should be nerfed.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

Well that video DID show Hail of Bullets with what looks like a 30-35 second recharge time.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

Devs get hax.

^^This.

Though I have to disagree. There's plenty of people who don't get on the forums, who won't play DP, because it's not a high performing IO set.

My DP/Mental. It's my main DB/WP rolled into a blaster. I LOVE IT! DP/Mental is my main now!

First blaster I ever enjoyed playing. It may never be the stop IO contender set, but I love it anyways. It's so flashy!

Considering I did comprehensive damage analysis for DP under both conditions and it didn't perform very well under either, I'm going to have to disagree with you. I saw the numbers in both conditions and compared them. The open beta was better, but it still isn't quite balanced with the other sets.

The only times that DP is actually a respectable contender for DPS is when it is using either Standard Ammo (thanks to PR's -res) or Incendiary Ammo (thanks to the bonus DoT). Chem Ammo and Cryo Ammo are actually substandard for damage specifically because they're not getting either of those benefits. It makes even less sense when you consider that Incendiary is giving up a mitigatory secondary effect in exchange for bonus damage without actually getting much out of the deal. It would be akin to going from Energy Blast to Fire Blast and only getting a paltry 1% increase in DPS.

What makes it worse is that DP isn't actually all that spectacular at AoE damage (mostly thanks to long animations that forcibly extend cycle times) and Hail of Bullets is substantially weaker than it should be (if you want to argue this, I can give you a link), considering existing precedent. The set isn't so completely borked that it's unplayable. The set is simply having to compete for mediocrity. The fact that it's pretty is currently bolstering its playability by a large amount (not to mention the shiny newness) but that doesn't really do much when, by all empirical accounts, the set is underperforming.

Balancing by "feel" and "enjoyability" is all nice and good, but when all a set has going for it is "BABs did an awesome job!", Castle and Synapse probably have some work to do.

Oh. I can agree with this. In that I see, others decimating things faster than my DP has been.

But number wise (with SOs), I saw the lists, and it came out...well, not the bottom.

Part of me wonders if the devs didnt want to have it be all that number wise to begin with though.

Have DP be the flashy set, but not much else, thinking. It's my guess.

And I havent found Cyro Ammo to be useful at all. Chem only a few times. Lethal and Fire Rounds have been getting the most use out of me.

"Mediocrity" or better yet, average, is hardly a bad thing. You just want another fire blast/archery. Not every set can be those.

Weren't you the one that forced DP, and all sets you compared, into an arbitrary attack chain regardless of the difficulty involved in doing so or even if it was the most efficient DPS chain for that set?

If not, forgive me.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

No. Umbral actually made up various attack chains.

The first, the best DPS chain using nothing but SOs.

The second, the best using SOs and Hasten.

...thusly easy to obtain.

And then a third, the best DPS chain using IOs (at an expensive amount of +RCH)...but he showed the DPS chains, that ANYONE could get easily (namely the SO and SO w/ Hasten chains).