Dual Pistols better then I thought.
By
Bill Z Bubba,
Posted on: 2010-03-09 14:40 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
I couldn't remember who did which. One of the analysees I saw showed that DP was about average with SOs. Like in the 40-50% range (that is to say, about 5th or 6th out of 10 sets). Slightly more with fire but never really exceeding the halfway point. Then dropped off a lot with IOs. Overall I think that's about where it needs to be. Somewhere in the 40-60% range.|
Originally Posted by Umbral
Bad troll is bad. :P
(If you're curious, Disp is pretty much quoting almost word for word a criticism I gave to a really and pretty much useless analysis for DP in the beta) |
The other one claimed that DP was like the second worst set for damage which was simply untrue.
And again I still think there are a few things about DP that need to be changed. HoB is on both our lists I think.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
Quote:
I think HoB needing changed is on everyone's list.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I couldn't remember who did which. One of the analysees I saw showed that DP was about average with SOs. Like in the 40-50% range (that is to say, about 5th or 6th out of 10 sets). Slightly more with fire but never really exceeding the halfway point. Then dropped off a lot with IOs. Overall I think that's about where it needs to be. Somewhere in the 40-60% range.
The other one claimed that DP was like the second worst set for damage which was simply untrue. And again I still think there are a few things about DP that need to be changed. HoB is on both our lists I think. |
It just doesn't come up often enough, like FA and RoA. And it should. I don't even think it needs more damage (would be nice). But the recharge!
I do hjave to get into melee to use it after all, and it doesnt even kill every white minion...so let me risk my health more often!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
I disagree. Mediocrity is the worst possible thing this game can have, in regards to powers.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
"Mediocrity" or better yet, average, is hardly a bad thing. You just want another fire blast/archery. Not every set can be those.
|
Mediocrity requires a middle. A middle requires to ends. Mediocrity tautologically requires some things to be better, and some things to be worse. We shouldn't want that. We should want all things to be equal.
Now, to cut down any straw men before they pop up, I do not mean that all powersets should be the exact same thing, or any permutation of that argument. That's a very, very boring game. Powersets should be comparably strong, in different ways. Strengths and weaknesses, all that jazz.
So, do I want everything to be Fire/Archery? No. I want everything to be Blast/Blast. I want everything to line up perfectly, to be even in some quantifiable way. If X is potential for dealing ST damage, Y is potential for AoE, and Z is additional Utility, every powerset should be XYZ.
Umbral raised a few points to that effect: Some powersets are low in one area, but compensate in others. AR has low ST damage, but high AoE. Fire has high damage, but low utility. DP has low damage, and utility. I don't think it's enough. I don't think beautiful animations should offset performance. And, while I accept that the game is balanced around SOs, not IOs, I don't think it's unreasonable to wish that IOs factored in at some point, too.
But, as I've emphasized, these thoughts are mine. It's clear I stand in a minority view, and so I say the same thing I said at the beginning.
I'm glad you enjoy the set. I don't think it's for me.
Quote:
This, along with:|
Originally Posted by FunstuffofDoom
I disagree. Mediocrity is the worst possible thing this game can have, in regards to powers.
Mediocrity requires a middle. A middle requires to ends. Mediocrity tautologically requires some things to be better, and some things to be worse. We shouldn't want that. We should want all things to be equal. |
Quote:
| Umbral raised a few points to that effect: Some powersets are low in one area, but compensate in others. |
Now compare to a set like DP which is absolutely chock full of secondary effects. It has a stun/hold (depending on what you want). It has KD, KB, -DEF, -RECH, -speed, -DMG, -RES, and the flexibility to adopt more damage. It has four damage types which you can pick at will. You'll never be fighting fire with fire or having to stick with something that does nothing. You can just switch.
So the issue comes when you try to compare sets and start comparing things that don't have numbers next to them. "This set is adaptable" does not have a "+15% to overall damage for powerset comparison purposes" next to it. You can't do the math on Fire's damage, then the math on DP's damage, then add the value that Swap Ammo represents and see which one is better. The idea of whether or not DP is fine where it is is totally subjective, and always will be. Simply because it has elements that don't appear in graphs and charts. Unless you simply ignore those elements and claim that the set is weak in damage and damage alone.
If the issue is that this ability doesn't feel like "enough," that's still subjective. To some people it will never be "enough." To some people it will be "too much." Since you can't attach a number to it, it's impossible to fully balance to an absolute value.
So for your own words, DP may be "low" in one area (damage), but "compensate in others" (extreme flexibility not seen in any other set to date).
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
Quote:
You know, you could have just attached my name to this and been done with it |
Originally Posted by Leo_G
I don't know what's up with those crazy Broadsworders. I tell them "Yeah. Animations. Yours. Suck." but keep getting responses like "it's brutal" or 'Piller of Pain'. *shakes head* The only thing brutal I'll openly admit about BS is the orange numbers...and even those, over time, are overshadowed by faster sets like Claws and Katana.
|
Frankly, I'll take Broadsword over Martial Arts or Claws any day, for the simple fact that this is the closest Scrappers get to Super Strength. Especially on women, because you can give them the Legacy Broadsword that's still scaled for Huge. Yeah, the lack of screen shake is what ultimately convinced me to stop trying to use it to model super strength, and while Claws is fun to play and look at, it lacks actual strength and force behind it. That's not a bad thing, but I'm naturally biassed towards overriding strength.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
This, along with:
...this, I feel I should speak up. There's one thing I have to point out. Almost everyone in this thread is ONLY looking at damage, PERIOD. You cite Archery/Fire as being totally awesome and say DP is worse than them, and that all sets should be equal. Archery and Fire have no meaningful secondary effects. Least not combat ones. Fire just does pure damage, and Archery's secondary effects are speed, recharge, and cheapness. Now compare to a set like DP which is absolutely chock full of secondary effects. It has a stun/hold (depending on what you want). It has KD, KB, -DEF, -RECH, -speed, -DMG, -RES, and the flexibility to adopt more damage. It has four damage types which you can pick at will. You'll never be fighting fire with fire or having to stick with something that does nothing. You can just switch. So the issue comes when you try to compare sets and start comparing things that don't have numbers next to them. "This set is adaptable" does not have a "+15% to overall damage for powerset comparison purposes" next to it. You can't do the math on Fire's damage, then the math on DP's damage, then add the value that Swap Ammo represents and see which one is better. The idea of whether or not DP is fine where it is is totally subjective, and always will be. Simply because it has elements that don't appear in graphs and charts. Unless you simply ignore those elements and claim that the set is weak in damage and damage alone. If the issue is that this ability doesn't feel like "enough," that's still subjective. To some people it will never be "enough." To some people it will be "too much." Since you can't attach a number to it, it's impossible to fully balance to an absolute value. So for your own words, DP may be "low" in one area (damage), but "compensate in others" (extreme flexibility not seen in any other set to date). |
While I have to say I find...
-Def to only really be worth the slotting of the -Resist Proc, due to have slotted ACC into my attacks, and the use of Tactics or FA on most toon, and that the -def is just to msall to really make a difference.
KB is useful on a range team admittedly.
The slows, truthfully, I just haven't found them to be of any help to me at all.
-DMG, a bit of usefulness, but not nearly enough to make a lot of use out of it. At low levels, I found it helping the ice tank beable to take a little more pounding from the bad guys.
The hold/stun worthless without something to stack it with.
Fire's DoT, I find this great...added damage for those times I need to turn off the KB
This is why Lethal and Fire Rounds gets most of my attention.
Heavy Lethal resists? Could switch to any of the other 3 damage types...but Fire gives more dmg, while the other 2 give effects, that really haven't made to much of a difference for me.
That said, I'm playing a blaster. For a Dark/ Defender or /Dark Corr, I'm think the combo could just be MEAN with Toxic Ammo.
Darkest Night's HUGE dmg debuff, plus Toxic Ammo's damage debuff, plus all the resists I can put into a Dark Miasma user (not to mention defense and tohit debuffs), makes for one tough Corruptor or Defender!
...just saying that makes me want to roll a DP/Dark corr. But if I did that, i'd likely ignore my Elec/Thermal Corr I love so much. *cries*
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
Which most sets have. The only set without a ranged hold or stun is Fire. And that's because Fire's schtick is absolute burnination.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
It has a stun/hold (depending on what you want).
|
Quote:
| It has KD, KB, -DEF, -RECH, -speed, -DMG, -RES, and the flexibility to adopt more damage. |
Quote:
| It has four damage types which you can pick at will. You'll never be fighting fire with fire or having to stick with something that does nothing. You can just switch. |
Quote:
| So for your own words, DP may be "low" in one area (damage), but "compensate in others" (extreme flexibility not seen in any other set to date). |
Keep in mind that it is still, and always will be, a blast set and blast sets are designed to deal damage. When sets start sacrificing their primary functionality for external benefits, the set isn't doing its job (such as was the case with Dark Melee before the buff). Utility is nice, but it's not going to kill things for you. When the utility is overreaching, the set needs to get reoriented and get its damage on.
Quote:
Perfectly said. |
Originally Posted by Dispari
So the issue comes when you try to compare sets and start comparing things that don't have numbers next to them. "This set is adaptable" does not have a "+15% to overall damage for powerset comparison purposes" next to it. You can't do the math on Fire's damage, then the math on DP's damage, then add the value that Swap Ammo represents and see which one is better. The idea of whether or not DP is fine where it is is totally subjective, and always will be. Simply because it has elements that don't appear in graphs and charts. Unless you simply ignore those elements and claim that the set is weak in damage and damage alone.
|
I want to add that even if you do choose to use graphs and charts, there are additional pitfalls we should keep in mind:
1) Categories or rankings should be treated with skepticism. You can't simply classify things by "Best AoE" and "Best Single Target," rank powersets against each other, and declare anything that doesn't do well in at least one group bad, because those categories are made up to fit the situation. Surely we'd call foul if someone created a category called "Most Flexible" or "Best Performance Against a Resisted Damage Type" or "Best Crashless Nuke" or "Best AoE Knockback" in order to show Fire Blast is underpowered.
2) Ranking sets against each other implies that differences between each set on the hierarchy are uniform. It also implies that a sustained DPA chain is representative of a set's damage, when in fact some sets may change rankings when examining various power combinations versus enemies with different levels of HP or within certain game contexts (e.g. some sets will do better at two-shotting, some at three-shotting, some at opening with a mezz followed by a two-shot, some at finishing an enemy if one shot out of the chain happens to miss, some at switching between single targets and multiple targets, some at sustained DPA against a single target, etc.)
3) DPA calculations themselves do not tell the full story. Do you know what the DPA of Hot Feet is? Infinite, because once the animation plays it never ends. Anything with an overlong damage effect really screws with assumptions about DPA, especially when damage ticks overlap with follow up shots. Fire Blast has an incredible DPA, but it's actual DPS, while still good, is lower than what DPA would imply. DPA tells you what damage departed your character toward the enemy, not when it hurt or killed them.
4) With Dual Pistols specifically, any calculations performed should use whatever type of ammo yields the most favorable results for the set. In most cases, this is Incendiary or Lethal. The fact that the user can switch to other damage types/secondary effects is gravy, from the perspective of measuring damage. Why would you check damage levels on a power using anything other than the best version of that power available? This hasn't been an issue before because we've never had the ability to change the function of a power, but now that we can, we really have to use the best possible scenario.
I'm sure I'm walking into another firepit but I feel like this powerset has really taken an unfair beating. It's true "the numbers" as presented by some folks, show that the set is low damage, and I agree some tweaks are in order. However I also think the case against DP has been drastically overstated and the full value of ammo switching not fully considered or explored. I don't blame folks for taking the positions that they do, but I think this set in particular needs a very thorough analysis, not a simple evaluation-by-table.
Quote:
Ah yes, that was you >_>|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
You know, you could have just attached my name to this and been done with it
|
Sorry Sam
Quote:
I'm just fooling around |
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Ah yes, that was you >_>
Sorry Sam |
Seriously, though - I can't wait for Going Rogue, when I will hopefully get BIGGER PISTOLS for my Blaster. I know Zombra is somewhere right now, laughing at me, but I do!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
This just in:
Numbers are not everything.
I play what I enjoy playing. If the numbers happen to be good on it, cool. If the numbers aren't the best, so what? I've been playing a claws scrapper since it had the worst damage per activation of any scrapper set (back when Slash had the baseball pitch animation that Impale still has)
Refusal to play a set just because the numbers don't compare favorably to the highest performing set available is just dumb (in my opinion of course). I happen to like Dual Pistols for the visuals of it, not because it's the most awesome thing ever released. My DP characters are fun to play, whereas some of my better performing characters get boring fairly quick.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Two things I'd like seen done with Dual Pistols (Really one the other is a general addition to the game).
I quickly got over my issues with redraw by changing my tactics. I simply won't use my rad debuffs unless the team is facing multiple bosses, an EB or AV. Other than that the pistols are out of the holster and I'm plugging away.
First I'd like to see alternate animations that aren't as "flashy". I'm sure they will be down the road sometime, but it would have been nice to have them from the start seeing that the set is new.
The second is there is a desperate need for more variety in the ranged AoE recipe selection. There are only three normal sets (Air Burst has a max of 4 recipes), one purple and one PvP. Compared to Ranged Single target that has 10 normal sets, one purple and one PvP. PBAoE has five normal, one purple and one PvP. Additionally the bonuses for AoE sets are lacking. With such small variety I would think the sets would offer better bonuses, sadly they don't.
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
I'm starting to think the devs made DP mediocre on purpose just so the forums would have something to kvetch about until I17, GR or demon summoning was released. And once I17/GR/DS is released, they'll buff DP somehow in the same patch.
Brilliant.
I never thought I'd play a dual pistols because I am not very fond of the defender, blaster and corruptor play style but I would have pre-purchased GR even if it gave me nothing just so I would be certain to have it when the time comes for Demon Summoning.
But I figured since I got it I'd roll one up and I also went with traps/dp defender.
I am hooked. For me the animation sells the set. There are some attacks in other sets that I love but the dual pistol ones are a hoot. I understand people have seen these kinds of things in movies or shows before but it was pretty new to me and I love it. So I rolled up a corruptor and a blaster too.
Good job, devs!
But, um, now you are really going to have to shine with Demon Summoning...
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Quote:
I want Old West style six shooters and more cowboy clothing options.
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I'm just fooling around
Seriously, though - I can't wait for Going Rogue, when I will hopefully get BIGGER PISTOLS for my Blaster. I know Zombra is somewhere right now, laughing at me, but I do! |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
I like the DP set and think that the devs did an awesome job with the set.
However I would like to see the set get some buffs/changes....here's what I'd like to see...
1.) Remove the 'twirl gun' sound/animation end part from the Empty Clips power and the Dual Pistols power. What I'm talking about here is that after you use the EC and DP powers, there is a .2 (maybe .5 or 1 second) second delay where you can hear the guns 'twirling' around and you can't attack until it's done. I never really noticed it but lately I have noticed it and it's a bit irksome.
2.) I would like to see Executioner's Shot sped up a little bit. Not asking for it to be 1 second total but...but maybe speed up a little bit?
3.) Buff Hail of Bullets. Either keep the 2 min recharge and buff the damage a bit or drop it to a 60 sec base recharge and keep the damage as it is. Would be 'great' if both were done to it (60 sec base recharge and dmg increased by a little bit).
4.) Make the cyro and chem. ammo more powerful. I'm not sure how this can be done but I really have noticed that I only use lethal and fire ammo. I'd say the ammo I use the least would be the chemical ammo...only use that when I am (or my team is) up against an AV/EB/Monster....which is not too often. I've used cryo ammo just for some CoT missions and against Nemesis bosses (although that's kind of rare too since I usually just stick with fire ammo for the added DoT). I don't know if they buffed the blaster versions of cryo/chem ammo so that the secondary effects were better if that'd help or not...I would say 'not'...but..*shrugs* Maybe make the cryo/chem. ammo do more than the 30% of the total dmg (let them do 40% of the dmg and lethal do the rest of it (60%))? *shrugs*
All this coming from a lvl 42 DP/MM Blaster which I am still enjoying.
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
I played a DP/Nrg blaster and a Traps/DP defender on test and am currently leveling Traps/DP.
I enjoy playing it because it looks cool. But frankly, I think a large part of my enjoyment is coming from the traps side, which I had never played before. But my damage as a defender is abysmal! I have to shoot debuffed bosses 8 to 10 times, sometimes more, to kill them.
It wasn't as noticeable when I first stated playing him because lower level enemies don't have much lethal resistance and because the AT damage mods are all equal when we first start and then blasters and scrappers start to gain damage as defenders, tankers, and controllers begin to lose damage. As you level up the gap gets wider and wider until you reach the "normal" AT damage mods.
While my test blaster was not breaking any damage records compared to other blasters, he did enough damage with build up to take bosses out very quickly. Since defenders, corrupters, and devices blasters don't have the benefit of choosing build up OR aim they really lose out on burst damage.
I think that the set is playable, but a little under-powered. If it had aim, an equivalent, or a damage bonus spread out through the attacks to make up for the lack of aim, I think it would be perfect.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Quote:
I might have missed something. Does Piercing Rounds' -res stop functioning if you aren't using standard rounds?
| The only times that DP is actually a respectable contender for DPS is when it is using either Standard Ammo (thanks to PR's -res) or Incendiary Ammo (thanks to the bonus DoT). Chem Ammo and Cryo Ammo are actually substandard for damage specifically because they're not getting either of those benefits |
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
The problem is that if the numbers are not good, the set ends up playing poorly, and not all of us are prepared to admit "Well, this character utterly sucks, but because it looks so cool, I'll keep playing anyway." That's not to say Dual Pistols is like that, but certain powerset combos have been, and certain remain that way even now.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I play what I enjoy playing. If the numbers happen to be good on it, cool. If the numbers aren't the best, so what? I've been playing a claws scrapper since it had the worst damage per activation of any scrapper set (back when Slash had the baseball pitch animation that Impale still has)
|
Put it this way: If a character is so weak I die every other spawn, I'm going to play something else no matter how "cool" that character might be. There's nothing cool about a wimp who dies all the time and there's nothing fun about playing a character that makes me neurotic with apprehension of every damn fight.
Sets can be as cool as they want, but they still need to play well. And this myth that they can somehow have incredibly poor numbers and still play well because numbers are for number crunchers only only serves to keep underperforming sets underperform. Currently, Dual Pistols is not as good as it should be, on account of its annoyingly long animations. They may look cool, but just like sitting down to watch the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy in a triple-feature, they're still just too long.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
Yup. It looks like a ploy to make people use standard rounds, too, or possibly to combat the misconception that lethal damage is worthless.
|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I might have missed something. Does Piercing Rounds' -res stop functioning if you aren't using standard rounds?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
If I remember correctly, both Empty Clips and Bullet Rain have an extra gun twirl pause at the end of the animation which, honestly, serves no practical purpose but to slow the set down, both practically and functionally. I would very much like to see those go completely. The pause at the end of Dual Wield can't be taken out, though, as the power has an enforced 1.67 second animation time as part of the Defiance format.|
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
1.) Remove the 'twirl gun' sound/animation end part from the Empty Clips power and the Dual Pistols power. What I'm talking about here is that after you use the EC and DP powers, there is a .2 (maybe .5 or 1 second) second delay where you can hear the guns 'twirling' around and you can't attack until it's done. I never really noticed it but lately I have noticed it and it's a bit irksome.
|
While we're looking at needless twirls, the gun toss in Piercing Rounds makes it longer than it needs to be. I don't mind the tossing of the guns itself (even if it's silly), but they just spend too long flipping through the air. They get the kind of air time that reminds me of something like Total Focus. They could just flip faster.
Quote:
| 2.) I would like to see Executioner's Shot sped up a little bit. Not asking for it to be 1 second total but...but maybe speed up a little bit? |
Personally, I'd still like to see at least one of the two twirls native to the power go. It's a gun twirl. Do we really need to play finger-juggling with the thing?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
I use lethal to solo. It's the best option. ES has a sweet 70% chance to trigger.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
KB is useful on a range team admittedly.
The hold/stun worthless without something to stack it with. ...just saying that makes me want to roll a DP/Dark corr. But if I did that, i'd likely ignore my Elec/Thermal Corr I love so much. *cries* |
I also disagree the hold/stun is worthless. I took it on my Blaster and love it. Granted on Test I took it at 12, and respecced out of it later, but ended up taking it again by 50 (Blasters have so many open power picks). In the low levels I wasn't using it. Guys die fast and when you're on a team there's rarely enough need to just mez one guy. But it's always handy to have a mez to use on random sorcerers, porters, sappers, or what have you. Heck it's the best mitigation the set has. Maybe the -RECH and -DMG aren't that high. You know what is high? That one dude can't attack me at all.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Umbral
wurds and:
I then challenge you to prove that this vaunted flexibility is as valuable as you seem to claim it to be. |
I didn't say that I personally feel Dual Pistols is balanced right now. I'm saying that the devs might believe that though. And additionally, any attempts to balance the set with other sets has an unknown variable attached to Dual Pistols which makes perfect balance extremely difficult or even impossible. Nobody knows what value "Swap Ammo" represents, and we likely never will. So I can't prove anything to you other than to say:
Perfectly balanced (for damage) DP + Swap Ammo = "too good"
Slightly weaker than average (for damage) DP + Swap Ammo = ??!?!?!?!?!
Or in other words, if DP is balanced to an average of 50 for its performance:
50 + x = more than average performance
<50 + x = ?!?!?!?!
We don't know the value of x, and never will. This makes DP hard to balance. For the purpose of balance, every set's secondary effect from fire's DoT to rad's -DEF can be assumed to be the same value. However, DP has the unique ability to CHANGE its secondary effect between four (really more like 6-7) effects, as well as change its damage type. That particular value is unknown. If DP ONLY had lethal with its -DEF/KD/KB/-RES, then yes, the set would quite obviously hands-down be underpowered. Since it's not that simple, well, it's not that simple.
Even if I wanted to prove that DP is balanced as-is (which I kind of don't), I couldn't. All I'm really trying to say is the devs may think the set is balanced while we don't. If it were up to me, I'd probably do the following:
- Give secondary effects to Pistols; they'd be weaker/shorter duration, but be there
- Reduce ES' animation time to 2.00-2.07s to be in-line with other high blasts
- Reduce the damage variance window of HoB from 0%-200% to 50%-150% or even 75%-125%*
- Reduce HoB's recharge to 60s*
* = I made a rather big post about this in the open beta forums if you want to read specifics.
Overall I think the only thing I really am saying is that DP is okay. It's not great, but it's not as bad as some people think it is. I personally would improve it, but even if it's not improved I'll keep playing it.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
Quote:
What is this, WoW?|
Originally Posted by MYYST_BLAKWIDOW
In a few hours I got to level 30.
|
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
|
Quote:
This is me (although I use generic IOs). Numbers? Thrrrp. |
Originally Posted by Dispari
But most players don't crunch numbers or even use IOs like this so it's not that big a deal to them.
|
DP is AWESOME!
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
|
If not, forgive me.
(If you're curious, Disp is pretty much quoting almost word for word a criticism I gave to a really and pretty much useless analysis for DP in the beta)