City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

EU gets shafted - AGAIN!

AmazingMOO

By AmazingMOO,
Posted on: 2010-02-21 05:33 in The European Lounge

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Arete View Post
[I'm so going to be known as the "Lady Arete promoter of Server list merge", am I not? Oh well I can live with that]
So long as it's an animated server list merge you want I'm sure you'll be able to bang on about it in every thread on the boards and no-one will do anything about it.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoentgenStorm View Post
So long as it's an animated server list merge you want I'm sure you'll be able to bang on about it in every thread on the boards and no-one will do anything about it.
Err.. no.
No oneliners from me definitly. I want a real server list merge and preferably that it becomes a reality.

Lady Arete on Unionhandbook
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Arete View Post
Err.. no.
No oneliners from me definitly. I want a real server list merge and preferably that it becomes a reality.

I'd support a list merge and maybe even a worthwhile restructuring of the servers. I'd even support a reduction in server numbers (which would be difficult to do politically I admit) provided we were given an opportunity to swap our toons, and SGs and stuff to a server of our choice intact.


"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Arete View Post
Err.. no.
No oneliners from me definitly. I want a real server list merge and preferably that it becomes a reality.

You've got my support too.

 

Posted

I've said it before, I'll say it again - IMO when it comes to adding real value to a EU account, there is not a single improvement the devs could make that would be better than an EU/US server list merge.

If Defiant and Union had to come offline for a week to get it done, I would support it.

"The Hamidon is a what what of what?" - Brian the mission guy.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leese View Post
I've said it before, I'll say it again - IMO when it comes to adding real value to a EU account, there is not a single improvement the devs could make that would be better than an EU/US server list merge.

If Defiant and Union had to come offline for a week to get it done, I would support it.
Absolutely agreed. Having the servers offline for a week would be a pain but you know what? If it meant logging in one day and finding our servers right under a nice big list of the US servers so I can play and socialise with our US friends, I would be a very, very happy bunny.

@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leese View Post
I've said it before, I'll say it again - IMO when it comes to adding real value to a EU account, there is not a single improvement the devs could make that would be better than an EU/US server list merge.

If Defiant and Union had to come offline for a week to get it done, I would support it.
If that's what it took I'd imagine that effectively merging the lists (so EU accounts could access US servers) could be done whilst Union and Defiant were mid-move... i.e. we wouldn't neccesarily be without the game for as long as we were without our existing characters.

Still - why even think about it when it looks suspiciously like they'd rather see the EU fizzle out than merge the lists.

I really would like to know if it's a case of technical difficulties stopping a merge that's desired or that there's no desire (from PS/NC) to perform a list merge. I suspect the latter - most technical difficulties can be overcome if the will is there.

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Posted

Let's face it, since Europe got shut down, they couldn't care a rat's as*. In fact, I challenge them to even bother opening this sub-forum.

Fury

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judgement_Dave View Post
Still - why even think about it when it looks suspiciously like they'd rather see the EU fizzle out than merge the lists.
I have this feeling too and I don't think we're alone in the EU community. NCSoft is a business so to undertake the huge amount of work it would take to do the server list merge, they would have to be able to justify it financially. Without any facts and figures as to how lucrative the EU servers are I can't speculate much as to how much our revenue is worth to them to do the merge.

More likely, and I have seen this in business a lot of times, the business is simply 'wound down' i.e. left to dwindle and die until it gets closed with the announcement 'sorry, this firm is simply not financially viable anymore. From the lack of advertising in the EU, the ransacking of the Brighton offices and this latest blow of being told we're not getting a shelf presence in the EU (despite previous reassurances), I find this latter scenario far more likely.

I really, really fear that we are going to get the Korean treatment but I live in hope that NCSoft will prove me wrong.

@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk

 

Posted

This is the first time I have felt worried about the EU servers.

As JD and Dante has posted I really feel we are being wound down. To that end I may not bother with GR as I can't see without some word from NCsoft that it being a good investment.

I will stay until the end.

Happy to be on Defiant.
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Posted

Has any one seen the article mentioned in the latest PC Gamer mag April 2010, sure it has a nice review and kind words for CoX however it describes each players account as having 132 character slots etc and 12 servers to choose from.

Now from what I can remember a magazine cannot publish details like this without getting the green light from the game publisher and as this is a UK/EU mag why are they giving details of the US game?

This does worry me as with no comment from those on above to any of our concerns that we are being swept under the rug until the big announcement comes down "We are very sorry but we are closing the EU service down but to keep your subs here are some free character passports to the US service sorry for your bases and SGs!"

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Blackmore_EU View Post
Has any one seen the article mentioned in the latest PC Gamer mag April 2010, sure it has a nice review and kind words for CoX however it describes each players account as having 132 character slots etc and 12 servers to choose from.
Hope that they didn't publish that, as 12 servers and 132 slots in total would mean 11 slots per server!
Quote:
Now from what I can remember a magazine cannot publish details like this without getting the green light from the game publisher and as this is a UK/EU mag why are they giving details of the US game?

I suspect that NC always give out the NA service details when they issue a press release (or in their press packs) as:
  • The NA service has better figures/stats than the EU service;
  • Stating something along the lines of 'there are 12 servers or 4 servers depending on which service you join' would just confuse some potential customers.
  • Players from anywhere (including the EU) can join the NA service and access the figures given.
I'd also guess that NC is much happier to see new players join the NA service. Running 2 services/lists is going to be more costly/inconvenient than running just one - so if they can attract new players to the NA service it helps the EU service approach the point where closing it becomes an obvious neccessity.
Quote:
This does worry me as with no comment from those on above to any of our concerns that we are being swept under the rug until the big announcement comes down "We are very sorry but we are closing the EU service down but to keep your subs here are some free character passports to the US service sorry for your bases and SGs!"
Never expect any redname comment/response on this type of thing - unless you overstep the line and get a PM or post telling you to back off the negativity...

And tbh if NC was considering imminent closure or transfer of the EU service then I'd expect it to be handled in a strict timetable of carefully drafted announcements. We probably wouldn't get much by way of redname interaction outside of the announcements as it'd be too easy to put a foot wrong (and risk ending up with it in one's own mouth).

If they did transfers I'm guessing it'd please a lot of people on the EU servers, and even more so for badgers if it included a second bite at the Passport badge.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Blackmore_EU View Post
This does worry me as with no comment from those on above to any of our concerns that we are being swept under the rug until the big announcement comes down "We are very sorry but we are closing the EU service down but to keep your subs here are some free character passports to the US service sorry for your bases and SGs!"
If a transfer was offered which allowed us to transfer characters, veteran rewards and all of our paid for expansion packs, then I would be ok with that. Supergroups and bases can be rebuilt, badges can be re-earned (mostly) and inf can be generated quite easily. I'd also welcome the Passport badge as well of course.

On the other end of the scale, if the servers were just closed and we were offered three months play time on the US servers starting from scratch (as the Korean players got) I would be far less impressed and would find it hard to keep my loyalty.

However, one thing to note is that there is an EU version of Going Rogue. Which means that for the forseeable future, we are expected to continue. I'm not an expert on coding but I'd imagine they wouldn't make an EU version if they didn't expect to maintain the EU servers for a while longer. However, if that is the case, the lack of effort in directing new players towards the EU servers is somewhat depressing.

It's hard not to sound negative and like we're having a good old whinge here but there comes a point when it does feel as if we're getting the sharp end of the stick. But as I said before, I live in hope that we'll get proven wrong.

@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk

 

Posted

Sorry if some of my numbers were a bit off it's Saturday morning and the kids are home

I wouldn't complain about a transfer or server merge, it just feels like that calm before the storm in the way that slowly the EU has tapered off communications from our red names and now the mags are refering to to the US servers, etc....

As I have posted in other threads this game still has my full support but with an air of apprehension as to what is going on at the top with so little detail coming down to us any more.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante View Post
However, one thing to note is that there is an EU version of Going Rogue. Which means that for the forseeable future, we are expected to continue. I'm not an expert on coding but I'd imagine they wouldn't make an EU version if they didn't expect to maintain the EU servers for a while longer. However, if that is the case, the lack of effort in directing new players towards the EU servers is somewhat depressing.
I'm expecting GR content/assets to be part of the single excutable and collection of piggs (herd of piggs?) just as both CoH and CoV were installed even if you had access to only one. It'd be far worse/harder to try maintaining two versions of the game (i.e. an NA one with GR and an EU one without).

There's only one part of GR that might be EU-specific, and that's the French/German translations. I say 'might' as by now I'd have had a darn good look at making the language client-side and moving into Spanish... If they uncoupled th elangauge from the server installation then even language wouldn't neccesarily be seen as EU-specific.

Since there's no boxed edition in the EU all that an EU GR sale involves is an unlock code applying to your account. And if account transfers or a server list merge were on the cards then there's no reason not to sell the GR unlock to current EU accounts, as the unlock can travel with the account or server.

It would be somewhat dishonest to be selling GR unlocks in the EU if they were planning to shutdown the EU service with EU players starting afresh with free NA time but without account unlocks, but I do not believe that they are planning that.

We might not like how the EU seems to get forgotten, but I don't think NC are stupid, and they know CoX has a pretty loyal/longterm player base. Selling a product you know will be obsolete in a few months is the sort of move to lose that customer base - and like I said, they aren't stupid.
Quote:
It's hard not to sound negative and like we're having a good old whinge here but there comes a point when it does feel as if we're getting the sharp end of the stick. But as I said before, I live in hope that we'll get proven wrong.
I also play or have played several other MMOs (currently including STO, FE, CO) and the really sad thing is that I find the teaming and conversation in teams much better in CoX than any of the other games.

Sidekicking (even before SSK) means you could happily play with other people at practically any level and feel like you're contributing. The instanced game means none of the spawn camping rubbish you see in some games. The team search whilst nowhere near perfect is still a lot better than many other games.

CoX does a lot of things right* that means it a darn fine blast whenever I play it... and I can see it getting better (I have reasonably high hopes for GR and Posi's endgame work).

But it does feel like the EU is being left to fizzle out, and even the best MMO in the world starts to feel pretty poor if the ingame population dwindles too low.


* - of course it does some things somewhat less than perfectly as well, but that's because the incarnates are in-game characters whilst the devs are only human like the rest of us.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judgement_Dave View Post
But it does feel like the EU is being left to fizzle out,
To be fair, to some extent much of that feeling probably stems more from the rest of the EU playerbase "talking it up" than directly from NCSoft's handling of the market. There's not that much difference in the attention and marketing NCSoft gives CoH in the EU and US CoH markets -- it's more different shades of negligible than anything else -- so I think we should be careful to read too much into it.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leif_Roar View Post
To be fair, to some extent much of that feeling probably stems more from the rest of the EU playerbase "talking it up" than directly from NCSoft's handling of the market. There's not that much difference in the attention and marketing NCSoft gives CoH in the EU and US CoH markets -- it's more different shades of negligible than anything else -- so I think we should be careful to read too much into it.
It's not so much that, everyone EU-side unfortunately understands that marketing now is just pointless, but that roots back to the fact they gave up in the first place. And to be quite honest, they have been negligable. Atrociously as well, I used to think okay I subscribe but that doesn't mean I own them. But now I'm in the sinking ship, I friggin' have a say just as the lead designer does. The difference is they don't listen to EU. Period.

The last time we were ever given a moments thought, is when we bombared Positron with insults and attacks back when he was "nerfing" the AE farms. That was in the old forums, and now that was a good few months ago. They've been completely and utterly ignorant, and I wouldn't even apologise for my opinion if they responded right this second. It's appalling, I hate analogies but do you think in a real-life situation this form of interaction would be allowed?

I think not.

Fury

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_HR View Post
O.k my thoughts and i dont give a **** if this gets edited. blah blah i really do i'm sick and tired of having EU (EU not just england)
snip.

So nice to know you separate our part of the world into two sections, England and the rest of the EU.

AS a Welshman who's heartily sick of Americans, Englishmen and many Europeans using 'England' as a synonym for 'Britain', I hope your illiterate ranting gets the response it deserves from the Devs: stony silence.

Eco.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_HR View Post
its the fact that people buy the game from what they see around the shops. like EU Damz said, people like to buy games by going to shops and seeing whats there. unless they know about the game before they wont search for the game online. ok some do, but its a big place to search.
There is also a section of the gaming market who reads the online gaming press. It's not just getting new players by having some bloke sit down and google 'any new games out today?' Massively.com and gamespot and what have you are all sources of new players. I live in Poland, I'd expect to see The Krankies engaged in a live sex show with Simon McCorkindale, Benny from Crossroads and Shep, reanimated, broadcast live from the Blue peter studios with narration by the Queen before I'd see CoH in any shops here, but the internet's NOT a big place to search. If the government of Britain banned brick and mortar gaming shops tomorrow, the country wouldn't be full of gamers all forlornly knock-knocking on their monitors hoping that a selection of latest games would spontaneously parade across their field of vision like something out og the generation game, they'd do the online equivalent of 'having a look in a shop to see what's there' - they'd google 'latest PC games reviews', for example.

It's not brain surgery.

Eco.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leif_Roar View Post
To be fair, to some extent much of that feeling probably stems more from the rest of the EU playerbase "talking it up" than directly from NCSoft's handling of the market. There's not that much difference in the attention and marketing NCSoft gives CoH in the EU and US CoH markets -- it's more different shades of negligible than anything else -- so I think we should be careful to read too much into it.

I disagree.

It's the wholesale disregard of the EU customer base by NC that's caused this. When you get people who've supported the game for as long as some of us, who are now sick of the total lack of response from NC, it's clear that there's not just a vocal minority who are complaining. There's been a complete sea-change since Brighton was axed. The EU is not important to NC's strategy. If it were, we'd have had some assurances from senior rednames, not simply a CC letting us know our concerns are being pointed out to those who need to know. There's been more than ample time for a senior company rep to allay our concerns but we're met with a wall of silence far more telling than any "marketing speak" you care to think of.

Some of us actually love this game - and it's worrying to see how little love the owners seem to have for it.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan View Post
snip.

So nice to know you separate our part of the world into two sections, England and the rest of the EU.

AS a Welshman who's heartily sick of Americans, Englishmen and many Europeans using 'England' as a synonym for 'Britain', I hope your illiterate ranting gets the response it deserves from the Devs: stony silence.

Eco.
We're welsh and proud baby!

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Posted

since NC's recent handling of the EU customer-base has me kinda feeling like I can't sit down properly, and the news of no GR box has poured a little salt into the bleeding orifice that resulted from said shafting, I might have to try out some other COmputer game, or wait for DCUO, Marvel Online or SW:TOR for my MMO fix. Sad, because I've found the community of players in COH much friendlier than any other game. I'd wager at least half of us are able to act like humans, which feels like a 86%increase from some other games I've tried to play online. Shame the people taking our money aren't anywhere near as caring or considerate.

edit: I'm not going to play on the US servers. If there was a server list merge, but EU players were treated equally compared to US ones, I'd be one of the first to welcome such a thing. I will not continue to pay NC money if they continue to ignore non-US customers though.

@craggy see me on Union for TFs, SFs (please!) or just some good ol fashioned teaming.