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I suspect it's to make things a little more streamlined for new players. The EATs (particularly the Kheldians) introduce several new mechanics not found on other ATs. Throwing a brand new player in with trying to learn this AND learn the basic command and concepts of the game might be to much. Requiring people to unlock EATs at least means they've played a bit and understand the basics of the game before tacking on the EAT mechanics.
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Originally Posted by Radubadu
The only thing I don't understand is with leveling so easy in this game (20 can be done in a day if you really wanted it) why not just remove the prereq entirely and make them available at lvl 1?
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I have a feeling they are making epics available 1-20 for two reasons:
1: It has been said that praetoria will have beginning missions between 1-20, including end game content. (They most likely want to open epics to new players so that they can experience them.)
2: Devs have said it was a mistake to offer epics at lvl 50. (in my opinion the EPIC ATs were never truly..EPIC as much as they were new ATs unlockable by reaching lvl 50.)
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I take it you haven't done any of the arcs explaining what these guys really are? They're NOT the good guys.
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Originally Posted by Lightfoot
The Void Stalkers are assassins hunting aliens on earth who are seeking asylum, generally peaceful, and willing to help Paragon City fight the crime that infests its streets.
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There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
I think the last part of the statement applies to the aliens on earth (Khelds) who are generally peaceful... er.. violent and helpful.
The Void Hunters are most defnitely not nice, though.
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I meant that the Void Stalkers are assassins. The aliens they hunt (Peacebringers and Warshades) are seeking asylum on earth, are generally peaceful and willing to help Paragon City.|
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
I take it you haven't done any of the arcs explaining what these guys really are? They're NOT the good guys.
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I can see where my prior sentence construction could be construed as "Void Seekers are aliens seeking asylum, are generally peaceful and willing to help Paragon City."
My apologies.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Also, all the ranting about 'it's easy to get to 20!'...Well...yeah, because you know how to. A new player will NOT have that knowledge, unles they ask around and study up. In which case they are probably bright enough to either figure out or learn how the EATs work best.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I suspect it's to make things a little more streamlined for new players. The EATs (particularly the Kheldians) introduce several new mechanics not found on other ATs. Throwing a brand new player in with trying to learn this AND learn the basic command and concepts of the game might be to much. Requiring people to unlock EATs at least means they've played a bit and understand the basics of the game before tacking on the EAT mechanics.
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Global @radubadu
Usually playing one of the following toons blueside on Virtue:
Cadler 50 WP/SS tanker
Radubadu 46 Fire/Fire blaster
Hell Runner 35 Fire/Fire brute
It really doesn't bother me. I didn't level to 50 so I could get a Kheldian. I leveled to 50 because I had fun doing it. My PB (and later SoAs) were just an added bonus. If they are now an added bonus to getting Stamina instead, well, that's fine.
And I like coming across Cysts in missions.
However, it turned out that Smith was not a time-travelling Terminator
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Given a whole 'Strike Force' dedicated to 'end game content', I doubt they are just going to abandon level 50 as being something special.|
Originally Posted by Radubadu
Both valid points that I honestly hadn't considered. The one thing that's still lost on me is the devs thinking that making them unlockable only at 50 before was a mistake. I like things like that as they give me something to strive for.
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Ironically, it might just not be 'right now'. (Ironic in the sense of 'wanting things now' that is
)
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Yeah, I am inclined to believe there's something about the Praetorean content from 1-20 and, quite likely, the Going Rogue Side-Switching that could be a large factor in this change.
I can't say I see any reason why that would have to lead to this change, but I also don't see it as a bad change.
It is a bit extreme (From 50 to 20), but I have zero problems with it and unless it proves to cause some sort of problems in action, I couldn't care less about it being rewarded earlier for other people.
Hehe, I liked the comment in this thread about each time someone unlocks an EAT at level 20, a level 50 loses their EAT. Haha! 
I'd say this is all either due to some game-mechanics involving Praetorea and/or Side-Switching or just maybe an attempt to streamline things along side those upcoming features.
Or... It is still possible that they just wanted to make the change!
Either way... I trust this team.
And... PahLEASE... This is nothing like SWG Jedi... and not even anything remotely like the NGE, so just stop that now please.
*takes anti SOE anxiety pills*
(I don't really take pills... I do take large mallets to SOE employee skulls, but... but that's a different story)
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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... not exactly true (Council spoilers behind link)
| And, as I understand it, the Nictus are trying to take over the world through the Council, but the only time we encounter a Council base with a Nictus in it is when we are teamed with a Kheldian. |
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
I think it's a plain and simple numbers thing. The dev's look at how many players play ATs. EPIC ATs are always at the bottom of that list... as expected, since they're unlockable. The Dev's see balance across ATs as one indication of game balance.... so they took a step to make that happen. There's no harm in it that I can see. Honestly, I'll probably take a look at VEATs now... which I haven't looked at much because I never got around to playing a villian to 50. No harm there. They've opened up more content to me.
This game has always been casual player friendly. What that term means can be debated forever with no resolution, but applied to a specific example like "should we open up epic ATs at 20"... you can run it through the filter of "is that a move that helps the casual player expirience more of joy this game can offer... the answer is quite simply yes.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
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Wow, do YOU obsess over individual posts much? (And look, I used a verb and stuff to make a sentence out of my question.) I never said that Zookeeper was SUPPOSED to be 10,000 monkeys, only pointed out one of many changes they've made to either dumb down CoX or make it "more fun" for people who obsess over badges. Someone plays the game long enough with one toon, they get a level 50, and they get badges. Nobody ever said these obsessive/compulsive disorder sufferers had to get them all immediately, park overnight in a pool of lava, or farm AE missions for them! |
Originally Posted by Lightfoot
Wow, misinformed much? Zookeeper was never supposed to be 10,000 monkeys. Somebody added an extra zero, and they let it slide. After a long while, they realized that a lot of people were engaging in behaviors that were not fun (dull, boring, pointless grinds, in fact) in order to get these badges. Rather than encourage people to pointlessly grind, or leave their characters in a zone overnight for three weeks soaking up damage from lowbie mobs, they decided to lower the requirements so that people who obsessed over theses kinds of badges could get back to the business of having fun.
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Originally Posted by Lightfoot
The level restrictions were removed from zones to enable the new sidekicking feature. Beforehand, if you had someone sidekicked to you who was level 15, and the next mission was in Dark Astoria, you either had to find another mission, or kick the lowbie out of the team.
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Originally Posted by Lightfoot
I haven't seen any news about relaxing costume / weapon unlock requirements, so I don't know which orifice you are pulling that statement from.
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Originally Posted by Lightfoot
Overreact much? I don't see any of this happening in the near future, but if you want to nerdrage over it, be my guest.
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Originally Posted by Lightfoot
The Dev's job is to make a fun game. Are you seriously telling me that grinding out 10,000 Rikti Monkeys was fun? Or running the same AE mission over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again was fun?
The Devs want these badges to be achievable over the course of normal gameplay. A lot of the Epic, and now reduced, badge requirements encouraged aberrant, pure grind, boring gameplay. You want grind? You are welcome to go to WoW, Lineage or CO. You want fun? Stay here. That is the simple choice that is put before you. |
*ponders playing the "Don't put words in my mouth!" card and belatedly realizes how comically lame and cliché-ridden the forums really are*
People have differing opinions of "normal gameplay" and the devs keep lowering the bar. As noted before, it's the OCD badge collectors who "gotta get 'em all -- NAO!" who clamored and whined, instead of just accepting that various badges take different lengths of time to get. And as far as "over and over and over and over" ad infinitum goes, it's apparent that the hyperbole is spreading!
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Originally Posted by Lightfoot
The long term, and short term goals of the Paragon Dev team are to make the game fun so that we will keep playing. Aberrant gameplay and endless grinding are not fun. They are boring and repetitive. If you want to, you can go to Atlas, look down your nose and sneer at every character with the Zookeeper badge, or the Epic Healing badge, or the Epic Damage badge, or the Epic Debt badge, and send them tells and broadcast about how they should all worship you because you got them "old fashioned way." Expect most of them to ignore you, but if it makes you feel more special that you did something boring and pointless to to get an inconsequential reward in a video game, more power to you.
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*follows own oft-given advice to "get the hell off the forums and GO PLAY, for crying out loud!"*
"But it wasn't anything some purples and oranges and lots of screaming in fear couldn't handle." -- Werner
30 level 50's: 12 scrappers, 7 other random melee types, 11 blaster/blapper/support squishies, two accounts, and a TON of altitis since 4/28/04
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Pretty much agree with this, and this is coming from a veteran player who unlocked Kheldians when they were first available with a level 50 hero and unlocked VEATs long ago as well. |
Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
I think it's a plain and simple numbers thing. The dev's look at how many players play ATs. EPIC ATs are always at the bottom of that list... as expected, since they're unlockable. The Dev's see balance across ATs as one indication of game balance.... so they took a step to make that happen. There's no harm in it that I can see. Honestly, I'll probably take a look at VEATs now... which I haven't looked at much because I never got around to playing a villian to 50. No harm there. They've opened up more content to me.
This game has always been casual player friendly. What that term means can be debated forever with no resolution, but applied to a specific example like "should we open up epic ATs at 20"... you can run it through the filter of "is that a move that helps the casual player expirience more of joy this game can offer... the answer is quite simply yes. |
I see no harm to have them accessible to a larger number of players. My e-peen will survive the fact that it's easier for newer players to unlock them.
The devs have said the percentage of people with level 50 characters (and thus access to H/V EATs) is surprisingly small. So lowering the requirements for EATs is perfectly reasonable.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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True that. If the NGE only opened up Jedi to new players, SWG would have probably gained players (initially, unlocking Jedi was a long, arduous, and undocumented process, and IIRC it was randomized for every player, too)|
Originally Posted by Lightfoot
If this were the only thing that the NGE contained, Star Wars Galaxies would have lost only a few grumbling little snowflakes who were upset that they weren't as unique as they thought.
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Originally Posted by Lightfoot
And, as I understand it, the Nictus are trying to take over the world through the Council, but the only time we encounter a Council base with a Nictus in it is when we are teamed with a Kheldian.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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New endgame system in GR? |
Originally Posted by Commander
I mean, if the things we worked so hard to get at level 50 are now going to be available at level 20, there must be something to replace Epic AT's.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Originally Posted by Eldorado
I'll agree that zone level restrictions and the SSK system (though imperfect) make sense for much of the game -- but what was the logic behind opening up RWZ to level ones? "Well, you haven't GOT any powers to speak of, but sure, we'll drag you along so you can fight some of the hardest things in the game and not feel left out. Bring lots of wakies."
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It's because it is the only place in the game where co-op AE can happen.
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Thanks to Lightfoot for at least coming CLOSE to addressing the OP's concerns.|
Originally Posted by Lightfoot
Voids and Quantums are only a significant threat to the Kheldians themselves, and the cysts are only a big threat until you figure out how to fight them. Sorry folks, I don't buy the "but we'll have Quantums and Cysts in missions more frequently" as an argument against this move. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing more of them in the regular game. Why is it that an entire enemy group is reserved for only one archetype? Surely other heroes see the Void Seekers and Nictus as a threat to the city.
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The OP was not an "entitlement" whine - it was addressing a very real concern...Khelds "attract" a specific, potentially very deadly (personally & for a team) type of enemy.
This makes sense for people who've "mastered" the game by getting a toon to 50. They are (or should be), by the time they've reached 50, more than ready to deal with Voids/Quants/Nictus.
At level 20, some characters may NEVER EVEN HAVE SEEN a Void/Quant/Nictus, depending on their teaming habits.
OP brings up a real concern. Please READ MOAR and discuss the OP's ACTUAL CONCERNS, not your perceived "entitlement whine".
Do we get a badge yet for killing voids/quants/nictues.
/threadjack
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
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Well, if they'd just move it out of the RWZ and into Pocket D where it belongs, it'd be way better |
Originally Posted by Lucky666
It's because it is the only place in the game where co-op AE can happen.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I understand the idea of widening availability, I'm just wondering if it's a good idea. The reason? Arachnos troops have a forced respec; for those familiar with this mechanic, it's fine. For somebody who just started the game, and barely got a handle of the game in a couple weeks' worth of time, it could be daunting and confusing.
Likewise, the kheldian require familiarity with various roles, as they can switch from pure squid blaster, to big lobster tank, to an amalgamation of scrappers, defenders, and blasters. Somebody who got a character to 20 probably hasn't had enough time tinkering with the game to know how to use the different powers and roles well.
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While it's true that a good Kheldian player experience, getting one 50 really only gives you experience with an AT. If we go by that logic, to really go into Kheldians with the most experiences means getting a Blaster and Tanker for both ATs to 50 and then a Scrapper for Peacebringers and a Controller for Warshades to 50.|
Originally Posted by Seldom
Likewise, the kheldian require familiarity with various roles, as they can switch from pure squid blaster, to big lobster tank, to an amalgamation of scrappers, defenders, and blasters. Somebody who got a character to 20 probably hasn't had enough time tinkering with the game to know how to use the different powers and roles well.
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To this day I've never played a Tanker, yet I find myself often using dwarf form when playing my Peacebringer. It's true that there's a chance these lowered requirements means an increase in inexperienced in mediocre Kheldian players, but I like to think one way to gaining the experience to play Kheldians well is by playing Kheldians in the first place. Nothing really prepares you for the sheer range of abilities are only having played pretty set-in-stone roles. Plus, we're known for being a particularly nice and friendly MMO community, I say we should stay true to that reputation and show any inexperienced Kheldian (and SoA) players the ropes.
QR
Commander you kind of nailed how I was thinking about this. Over time in this game I have just come to understand things get lowered or made easier to get. I really don't have an opinion other than if it keeps people playing new characters that so be it. I still haven't found the time to roll a PB or WS yet. So many other fun projects.
Murph
Murph's 50s:
H: Tank, Cont, Def, Scrapper, Blaster, Bane
V: MM x5, Corr x2, Stalker, Dom, Fort
20 does seem weird but with GR coming around the corner it seems right. Getting to level 20 isn't hard for anyone even knew players since you're mostly always getting xp. I do feel that new players will be overwhelmed with all the choices both ATs have to offer. It'll be nice to see more VEATs about.
Now, a character hits 20 in no time flat. The pre-level 20 experience boost contributes to that, but mostly its just due to knowing how to level faster.