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Can we also ban the sleep proc, TK (especially the Defender version), Heat Loss, Shiver, Flashfire, Stalagmites, Fossilize (the Tanker epic power), Vengeance, Heat Exhaustion, hold/stun procs, Ball Lightning, Stunning Shot, Screech, Power Boost (because of PB'd mezzes), double phase builds, Taunt and related powers, Neurotoxic Breath, and any knockback power with enough mag to get through Acro?
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Originally Posted by Silit
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Ack 9pm est is like 4am here. No go on sundays or thursdays 
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These are working as intended.
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Originally Posted by macskull
Can we also ban the sleep proc, TK (especially the Defender version), Heat Loss, Shiver, Flashfire, Stalagmites, Fossilize (the Tanker epic power), Vengeance, Heat Exhaustion, hold/stun procs, Ball Lightning, Stunning Shot, Screech, Power Boost (because of PB'd mezzes), double phase builds, Taunt and related powers, Neurotoxic Breath, and any knockback power with enough mag to get through Acro?
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http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6685529/3-hot-and-vex-3
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So is Spirit Shark, but that didn't stop it from getting banned.
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Originally Posted by Borderline Boss
These are working as intended.
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"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
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The general consensus is that sharks are exploit worthy. A team could bring 8 stalkers, get a single shark spike kill, and then run for the rest of the match - coasting them to a win.|
Originally Posted by Reiraku
So is Spirit Shark, but that didn't stop it from getting banned.
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We considered limiting the number of stalkers allowed in a single lineup, but doing such would only limit lineup possibilities, not the exploit-ability of stalker sharks. Note that a single Spirit Shark crit hits for roughly 600 damage. Even just three stalkers would be able to spam sharks as a viable offensive technique.
A less formal explanation: Stop being bad. Learn how to AS. If team captains are in overall disagreement of the rule it will be changed.
Wouldn't it be easier to just run a couple veats than to outlaw the most used epic for an entire at?
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
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The rules have a specific portion designed to prevent counter-picking, therefore a team would always have to run forts in order to prevent a full stalker team that might never get run.
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Originally Posted by ConFlict
Wouldn't it be easier to just run a couple veats than to outlaw the most used epic for an entire at?
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wrongwrongwrong.|
Originally Posted by Silit
The general consensus is that sharks are exploit worthy. A team could bring 8 stalkers, get a single shark spike kill, and then run for the rest of the match - coasting them to a win.
We considered limiting the number of stalkers allowed in a single lineup, but doing such would only limit lineup possibilities, not the exploit-ability of stalker sharks. Note that a single Spirit Shark crit hits for roughly 600 damage. Even just three stalkers would be able to spam sharks as a viable offensive technique. A less formal explanation: Stop being bad. Learn how to AS. If team captains are in overall disagreement of the rule it will be changed. |
banning powers = fiteclub redux.
bringing 8 stalkers and winning means you were facing a retarded team that didn't know how to counter.
also, defender TK is far more broken than any of those powers.
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so what? running a fort or two becomes as essential to a lineup as running a blaster. cry me a f river.
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Originally Posted by perilX
The rules have a specific portion designed to prevent counter-picking, therefore a team would always have to run forts in order to prevent a full stalker team that might never get run.
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To be fair with respect to sharks... couldn't a team of half decent stalkers just have one take the Soul Storm hold... which punches through any and all KB/KU protection, sends your toon flat on their face, then makes you get up through a slow animation. Even if the stalkers were bad enough to not land an AS, you could get 3 or 4 to just Thunder Strike them with the massive crits, and pull the same tactic of coasting through.
Even more simple than that... couldn't 8 stalkers just pull about the same with Impale? Yes it'd take more than 3 to instantly down a squishy. BU Impale crit is 762 lethal damage. You can usually get 3 procs in it as well for another 216 - 251 unresisted damage.
What if 8 stalkers did the same with Zapp which I think has has a base damage of 300+ after enhancing and build up and procs you are stuck with a similar problem. Doesn't the stalker even stay hidden if the target breaks LOS before it goes off? The problem seems less about sharks and more about teams being unprepared for all stalker line ups. Though I will agree that 8 sharks really does suck.
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My Proposal:|
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
I'll agree that 8 sharks is stupid, but if the argument is stalkers getting a kill then coasting through the rest of the match I really think you should look into limiting the number of stalkers rather than the powers they can use.
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- Remove the ban on stalker sharks.
- Allow for 2 wildcards in the lineup reporting and make the lineups public as soon as both are received.
Those two wildcards are enough to allow for a skilled countering o fa full stalker team and 5 minutes is enough to carry out that switch.
Not quite sure why people are debating it, Sharks are lame. Anywho, don't fret. As it gets closer to draft date and we get D8 teams set we will have a meeting with all the captains and see what needs to be changed.
And to that list of things that will be looked at will be Defender Telekinesis. Can't believe I overlooked that one.
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kiting is lame.
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Originally Posted by perilX
Not quite sure why people are debating it, Sharks are lame. Anywho, don't fret. As it gets closer to draft date and we get D8 teams set we will have a meeting with all the captains and see what needs to be changed.
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The soul storm hold only KBs if it hits while the target is on the ground. Thunderstrike is a melee. Good luck landing 8 of them at once. Also, your numbers on impale don't factor in damage resistance.
Veng was banned from the last ladder. Powers being disallowed isn't anything new. I was definitely reluctant to make the proposal that sharks be banned, but come on, really. Is anyone going to vouch for a stalker ranged attack that hits for 600+ damage?
Wildcards in the lineup: The issue with that is: Who gets to swap for their wild-cards first? Theoretically, said team could counter another team's wild-cards with their own - which would put you back to square one when it comes to preventing teams from "pulling a renegades".
If you want to dispute rules: make a separate thread. This one is not for that purpose.
FYI: Poisonous Ray and Corrupter LR are banned because they are BUGGED and not suppressing properly.
Good luck with this!
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My toon is legal even following these rules... Someone pick me!
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Originally Posted by macskull
Can we also ban the sleep proc, TK (especially the Defender version), Heat Loss, Shiver, Flashfire, Stalagmites, Fossilize (the Tanker epic power), Vengeance, Heat Exhaustion, hold/stun procs, Ball Lightning, Stunning Shot, Screech, Power Boost (because of PB'd mezzes), double phase builds, Taunt and related powers, Neurotoxic Breath, and any knockback power with enough mag to get through Acro?
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what about mm blaster drain psyche? that is also bugged (and other bugged powers that slow like lr?)
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Did you think I was being serious with half those suggestions?|
Originally Posted by Konnichiwa
Post Deleted
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But seriously ban Defender TK
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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You'll have to forgive Vert, he's not exactly quick when it comes to catching sarcasm.
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Originally Posted by macskull
Did you think I was being serious with half those suggestions?
But seriously ban Defender TK |
@Ethical Inquiry
BU impale is 381, add in a crit, 726.
Pretend a squishy manages to get 60% dr, that is 290 (726 * 0.4).
1606(squishy hp cap)/290 is 5.5, so you need 6 stalkers.
If you add in some +dmg (everyone has assault would be what I would do) or procs, that number is going to fall in a hurry. 30% (equal to three assaults; you could probably get +60 or 70 pretty easy) drops it to less than 5.
I sorta see why you might ban shark, but I think AT limiting would work a whole lot better, because that isn't using any procs.
How many knowledgeable, team-arena PvP'rs do you guys have at this point? Maybe I'm missing something, and not to insult anyone, but doesn't this format allow for everyone in that group to just enter on either 1 or 2 preassembled teams? It just seems that the most likely scenario here will be that only a couple of knowledgeable PvP'rs will be willing to captain a team, and then those couple of captains will recruit every other decent PvP'r before a draft ever occurs. Correct me if I'm wrong in thinking there are less than 24 upper-end PvP'rs now; I'm basing numbers off what I've been reading on the boards.
Maybe the purpose of this league is different than the other leagues I've been a part of, but I assumed that the goals of a PvP league were to 1. distribute knowledgeable PvP'rs as evenly as possible in order for them to better the newer players, and to 2. keep matches relatively competitive overall. The overall point being to grow a solid PvP playerbase through the league...which results in more and better ladder teams (not to mention better kickballs, zone activity, and future leagues).
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This format is designed to make both the hardcore pvp'r happy, and the new pvp'r happy. This is a combo ladder/league. Teams will organize, a few already are. They will put up their roster just like on test. Then they will draft out of what is left that signed up. |
Originally Posted by Not_Psoma
How many knowledgeable, team-arena PvP'rs do you guys have at this point? Maybe I'm missing something, and not to insult anyone, but doesn't this format allow for everyone in that group to just enter on either 1 or 2 preassembled teams? It just seems that the most likely scenario here will be that only a couple of knowledgeable PvP'rs will be willing to captain a team, and then those couple of captains will recruit every other decent PvP'r before a draft ever occurs. Correct me if I'm wrong in thinking there are less than 24 upper-end PvP'rs now; I'm basing numbers off what I've been reading on the boards.
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The PVPEC has to put together events that embrace the new pvp'r. This event is not only meant to embrace them, but is also designed to make it where the Veterans teach them. Where its in their best interest to do so. If your Division 8 team does not mentor and help the Division 6 team then you will not win the season no matter how good your "stacked" Division 8 team is.
The problem with the test ladder is you had to try out to get on a team. If you were not known or were not that great you didn't stand a chance of getting on. The problem with the old league was being it was all draft the good players wouldn't show up because their teams sucked. The not so good players didnt stand a chance because they didn't have anyone to mentor them. This League is designed to be a happy medium to hopefully solve both problems to make a viable team competition.
No matter what format we chose there is always going to be one or 2 teams that are going to dominate. That has been true for every organized pvp event in this game. Atleast this way though its not just an "elite kool kids" society, everyone gets to play and have fun.
Furthermore, as far as the powers that are banned......this can be voted on before the season actually starts. No rule is written in stone. Team captains are the final deciding voice on this.
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I can certainly appreciate and relate to the efforts everyone have made in attempt to accomplish the above. No offense was meant in my first post.|
Originally Posted by CriticalKat
This format is designed to make both the hardcore pvp'r happy, and the new pvp'r happy. This is a combo ladder/league. Teams will organize, a few already are. They will put up their roster just like on test. Then they will draft out of what is left that signed up.
The PVPEC has to put together events that embrace the new pvp'r. This event is not only meant to embrace them, but is also designed to make it where the Veterans teach them. Where its in their best interest to do so. |
That being said, I'm having trouble following this:
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Originally Posted by CriticalKat
If your Division 8 team does not mentor and help the Division 6 team then you will not win the season no matter how good your "stacked" Division 8 team is.
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Originally Posted by CriticalKat
The problem with the old league was being it was all draft the good players wouldn't show up because their teams sucked. The not so good players didnt stand a chance because they didn't have anyone to mentor them. This League is designed to be a happy medium to hopefully solve both problems to make a viable team competition.
No matter what format we chose there is always going to be one or 2 teams that are going to dominate. That has been true for every organized pvp event in this game. Atleast this way though its not just an "elite kool kids" society, everyone gets to play and have fun. |
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NO plan is full proof. I mean look at IPvPL's last season. Ajax was the best team captain. He picked the people he trusted the most first, those he knew were the best. His team was slightly stacked. They didn't win because his team was slightly stacked though. They won because he took the time to mentor his noobs a little. REalize the draft part of this is going to be kickball style. Any team leader is only going to be able to get so many good players on their division 6 team before the good ones run out and all that is left is new players. EVERY team is going to have that same problem.| If it ends up that every knowledgeable PvP'r is on a single team, then how do they end up losing? They would dominate the D8 portion (which counts for more than the D6) and then they draft some players for the D6 league and likely end up dominating it as well because of their likely advantage of being able to spot more knowledgeable draft entries. True, they would likely mentor their draft picks, but this only helps a handful of less-experienced players; actually, they could likely win most of their matches with a few small instructions vs detailed explanations. |
Just like on the ladder. "Most" teams formed up with the best of the best. Anyone who was not the best couldn't get on the team. There were some honorable teams captains such as Hank that was willing to mentor and teach the new players and take the risk of being in last place. Sadly most teams are not willing to do that.
With this format we were simplay trying to find a happy medium. Something where everyone would be happy to a certain degree. Is it designed to make the test pvp'rs dominate? No. Is it designed to make the new pvp'r stand a better chance? Yes. That was the goal, and hopefully that is what we will achieve.
- Division 6: Thursdays 6PM PST/9PM EST
*Matches can be rescheduled if both teams find an agreed upon date/time, otherwise matches must take place at the designated time.Round Scoring:
- Match Results: The captain of the winning team must post the match results in the official season thread within 24 hours of match completion. Both team captains should be prepared to supply screenshots of the results for all three matches if necessary.
Round Format: