Good character names are running out, huh?
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2010-01-20 08:53 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Then I'm lost..you are anti end game content because you don't care for the end game? That doesn't mean it's not going to be made or even shouldn't be made. This game has several fronts and each one gets attention from time to time.
How does a new endgame prevent you from enjoying the new starter area or any of the current midgame events?
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To be fair. That's not Marvel's Daredevil.
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Originally Posted by Lucky666
Daredevil <> He fights hitler while not cosmic defiantly not anything even close to SK stuff
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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For me? I'm not "anti-end-game" in the sense of "don't put this in or I'll throw a fit." It's more of "don't make the mistake of thinking this is in MY interest." |
Originally Posted by LISAR
Then I'm lost..you are anti end game content because you don't care for the end game? That doesn't mean it's not going to be made or even shouldn't be made. This game has several fronts and each one gets attention from time to time.
How does a new endgame prevent you from enjoying the new starter area or any of the current midgame events? |
That's important for two reasons.
1) This IS a multifaceted game with plenty to do. Some of the things to do are very popular to a broad base, some appeal to niches. A dev has to decide where to spend the money and, more importantly, HOW MUCH.
Sometimes, even if something is underused, it's worth dumping a ton of cash on it trying to 'turn it around.' Sometimes, however, especially with limited resources, it's best to focus on the things that will draw the most interest in the most players.
I'm not saying "don't develop it." Even if I wanted to, I don't have access to the devs' budget. The best I can do is help them better identify how many people ARE interested in this... and I do this by saying that I'm NOT interested.
Heck, I'm not the selfish type that says "don't spend MY money making someone else happy." I've been very supportive of previous releases that had absolutely nothing of interest to me. Everyone needs SOME love. Voicing our opposition is just making sure that they don't mistake the breadth of the appeal.
(For me, "Ultra mode" is a bit like this- I expected to be in a very small minority in NOT having an ultra-mode-capable PC. I was amazed by the large number of people that shared my situation. If I'd been a dev, I'd have totally overestimated the breadth of the mode's appeal and overspent on this particular feature)
2) By explaining the problems we have with late-game content, we might be able to inspire some of the development effort to "ease" these barriers- much like those fears expressed by the anti-market / anti-loot crowd stressed to the devs the importance of NOT falling into the design traps of other MMO's market/loot structure.
As an example, "High Level" doesn't have to equate to cosmic-level stories. By raising such concerns early (while the ideas are still flowing at early levels and pointing out that as Batman tales remains predominantly non-cosmic despite being so powerful, we might POSSIBLY stress the merit of a few high-level (endgame?) arcs that are NOT particularly associated with extra dimensions, time travel, or space, but STILL feels natural to the veteran hero.
Thus, the devs have a chance to alleviate our fears, attract people that are normally a little opposed to the "generic" idea, and perhaps, now that it appeals to a broader audience, justify more funds in that direction.
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Even though I really enjoy cosmic-level stories and characters, I have to agree with this. "Epic" doesn't have to equate "cosmic-level enemies." Fighting the Hamidon is all well and good, but it's also demoralising to me, in particular, because it suffers from the trite old MMO problem of slowly convincing you that you suck and the only way for you to be meaningful is to get 20 of your buddies together and try to bum-rush the REAL power in the universe. Remember: "City of Heroes, where YOU are the hero!"|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
As an example, "High Level" doesn't have to equate to cosmic-level stories. By raising such concerns early (while the ideas are still flowing at early levels and pointing out that as Batman tales remains predominantly non-cosmic despite being so powerful, we might POSSIBLY stress the merit of a few high-level (endgame?) arcs that are NOT particularly associated with extra dimensions, time travel, or space, but STILL feels natural to the veteran hero.
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Of course, that doesn't mean "no" to team content, but do what Recluse does. He's not a Mary Sue (well, he is, but not in this example), in that he's actually beatable, just very strong. However, with him syphoning the power of all the world's heroes, he THEN becomes a major threat, and it creates a good plot device for why you need a team, yet at the same time you're not totally outclassed by default. Yes, powered up Recluse is strong, but I still have an excuse for being weaker than him.
And again, not all level 50 content is cosmic level even now. The Malta Group and the Knives of Artemis are basically really tough, highly-trained commandos. They're not godlike beings from another planet who can destroy worlds with their minds. They're just badass dudes with GUNS! And, as we know, guns are the coolest super power ever
But just because something is HARD doesn't mean it has to be COSMIC.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Just as a random thought to keep this thread alive a bit longer...
I suppose I should not have been surprised to find out that Tickle Me Emo was taken on whatever server I checked for it on a few months back.
Then again, it was probably for the best. Otherwise I would have made him some dark brooding Dual Blades, Katana, or Claws villain...
So that's what inspired the Nostalgia Critic's Tickle Me Amy!
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I got the name Infinite Ammo fairly recently. 
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
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That helmet is badass.|
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
I got the name Infinite Ammo fairly recently.
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I got Wasteland Justice and Agent Eclipse for my new Dual Pistoleros this week.
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
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I've been meaning to drop that name, but I wondered if it was acceptable to boast about other people's names. Good choice of name, and I love that costume |
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
I got the name Infinite Ammo fairly recently.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I've made a...
...wait for it...
...Dual Pistol. (Dark Miasma/DP Def to be exact.)
The name?
Wadcutter
And get you minds out of the gutter, it's a type of bullet.
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Wait, wuuuuut??!! |
Originally Posted by Lucky666
Black Canary I can't say I have ever heard of.
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How could you NOT know of Green Arrow's main squeeze? Here, check out THIS LINK and learn about the pure awesomeness that is Black Canary!
Honestly, posting the Lev Gleason 'Daredevil' and being totally clueless about a pivotal golden age character like Black Canary makes no sense to me.
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It works in Champions Online and I like it. |
Originally Posted by Ironblade
My name is Ironblade and I disapprove of this message.
That naming scheme stinks. |
Fuerboll
Nacht Maus
Viperinae
Hydraphidae
Sacred Blade
Stormbringer
Cobalt Constable
Shining Starlight
Silversaint X
Agate
Velocity X
Darkfall X
Mindtwitch
Neutrino-Girl
Jumper Girl
Portal Girl
Graveyard Girl (noting a trend?)
Psi-Girl X
Starlight X
Gizmo-Girl X
Pei-Mun
Longfang Vasquez
Samantha Bogart
Timesplitter X
Honey-Bee
Frankengirl X
All names I've used on Virtue. Any that has an X beside it is one that I used the i for L trick to get because I simply gave up hunting through synonyms and getting rejections.
I think I'm fairly inventive with names, but really... Finding a word so obscure that there's only 1 reference on it on the entire internet and holding it up as an example of how "Good names" are still available is absurd, Samuel. And you should be ashamed of yourself!
Yes. Most people will say that "Obvious Names" are going to "Obviously" be taken. Haha. Yes. Sometimes you have to get "Creative" with names. But sitting on a high horse and waving your finger at others for not being inventive or creative enough to name their character a word or phrase so obscure that even well educated people will have trouble figuring it out without googling it isn't good naming. It's a last resort.
How many Beta players started out with obscure, strange, or downright abstruse names for characters? how many started out with names just as "Obvious" and "Uninventive" as the ones people have been trying to get ever since? Just because someone equally uninventive got to the name before someone who joined 3 years on DOESN'T make the new player uncreative, short-sighted, or uninventive. It just makes him late.
Sure. ou can name your red and gold spandex-clad fire/fire blaster Jim Taylor or "Operative Flame". But is that truly the heroic name he deserves? No. he should be named something inflammatory and brightly burning! And when you've exhausted every word that means "Fire" in English (and another language or two!) you'll either compromise from the name he deserves to something... Less. Or you might change his entire theme just so you can get "Operative" in there, or Cyber-Flame or something else.
Honestly? I don't care if there are Fifty "Cobalt Constables" standing under Atlas Statue. God knows the chances of that happening without being an organized event are so astronomically small as to be irrelevant.
Ultimately, it was a design choice Cryptic made when they chose the naming convention. They have seen the error of their ways, obviously, since in Champions Online you can share names with other players. Even though the chances of running into your doppelganger there are, by far, more likely than here.
Why would it be more likely there? ALL Fire-using characters are blasters. ALL Ice using characters are blast-trollers. Etc. In the City of Heroes game you've got 5 different archetypes with a total of 44 primaries. Of those 5 overlap when it comes to fire (Thermal Radiation, Fire Melee, Fire Armor, Fire Control, and Fire blast.) So Five out of Fourty Four.
On http://thesaurus.com/browse/Fire there are 48 synonyms to Fire in the first two entries. Sure not all of them make decent names, but let's go with Fourty eight "Good" names using a synonym for flame OR a synonym for flame and a pronoun or title. Mr. Fire, Captain Flame, Fire Girl, etc.
So now you've got 48 "Good names" for a fire character. I've just done a Virtue search this moment on Heroside for the total amount of un-hidden characters. 761 heroes.
Assuming even distribution of Archetypes and Primaries that's 17.29 people on the server right now that all have the same primary, heroside. 86.47 who all share Fire powers.
ASSUMING those 86.47 people each chose evenly from the list of 48 "Good Names" 1.8 people will share the same name. That still leaves over a Dozen zones and five ten-level level ranges for them to be in, not counting instances. Shall I get into the odds of them being on at the same time of day?
Ultimately those 2 (rounding up) people have nearly no chance of ever running into each other. So what, ultimately, is the harm of players having the same name?
Lack of uniqueness. Perceived ownership of a commodity only made rare, unique, and special by a system put into place by the former design team who realized their mistake and rectified it in the next game they created.
I have no love for the unique names system. I find it limiting, boring, and incredibly arbitrary. There is no good reason a person should have to search through thesauruses and obscure phrases for what they perceive to be a decent name indicative of their character. I will not, however, try to lobby for it's removal, since it's functionally impossible from everything I understand of how the game indexes characters.
Needless to say, Clockwork Symphony will do things quite differently...
-Rachel-
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Well then go play that then...
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Originally Posted by Major_Glory
It works in Champions Online and I like it.
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I have a few themes I stick with that help sort out the naming problem...
Kinetics - Usually has the word "Breaker" in it (as in, my Kin/DP def is "Double Breaker" and my fire/kin corr is "Fever Breaker").
Sword/Axe/Anything Pokey - "edge" of some sort. (Kat/SR is Flashedge, while my Axe/WP is Mighty Edge).
etc etc....
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I find that to be totally and utterly abhorrent.|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
I think there is a guide somewhere on the boards explaining naming techniques. I do things like frame in "x" or add a dash. So I ended up with x Keeper of Blades x after moving one of my toons to Virtue. I tend to get the name I want in one way or another.
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I'd have much more respect for someone who just adds roman numerals to the name. "Keeper of Blades XVII" is much better than "x Keeper of Blades x" which is just dumb. Just one man's opinion of course.
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
I think there is a guide somewhere on the boards explaining naming techniques. I do things like frame in "x" or add a dash. So I ended up with x Keeper of Blades x after moving one of my toons to Virtue. I tend to get the name I want in one way or another.
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Oooh nooeeees. It's a Counter-Strike nametag
It would be better as; 'Keeper of Blades
the " ' " is not that annoying
Sidenote: Names of hero characters is best if they either resemble the characters powers, origin, rank, motive or costume. It's extra good if the name is not too advanced or too long.
Batman, Storm, Magneto and Spiderman for naming a few is extraordinary names because they explain the characters perfectly.
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Ugh... What is this, the Twilight Zone? Why are people suddenly so adamant about misquoting me and then wagging their finger in my face? The reason I was happy was because I found a name for MYSELF, proving to MYSELF that the thing I thought - that is that all good names have been taken up - is wrong. This was meant to illustrate that specific, particular point. That there are still names out there that people could use if they were looking for one.|
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
I think I'm fairly inventive with names, but really... Finding a word so obscure that there's only 1 reference on it on the entire internet and holding it up as an example of how "Good names" are still available is absurd, Samuel. And you should be ashamed of yourself!
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I should be ashamed of myself? For what? Finding a good name for myself? Suggesting that other people could maybe stop complaining and LOOK for a name for themselves? For shame! Maybe there isn't a name for you, specifically and in particular. Maybe there isn't a name for everybody. I don't know. I didn't think there was one for ME. But I looked, I searched and I found. And that's more than I can say for most people.
This isn't about creativity, originality or imagination. It's about the willingness to try. Can't get the name you want? Too bad. There are OTHER names out there. Did you look? Did you go out, search, try, experiment? If you did and you still can't find one, then I feel for you, I truly do. Most people complaining DO NOT DO THIS. They try one name, don't get it, try one other name, don't get it and then come here to complain. Well, cry me a river.
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| Yes. Most people will say that "Obvious Names" are going to "Obviously" be taken. Haha. Yes. Sometimes you have to get "Creative" with names. But sitting on a high horse and waving your finger at others for not being inventive or creative enough to name their character a word or phrase so obscure that even well educated people will have trouble figuring it out without googling it isn't good naming. It's a last resort. |
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| How many Beta players started out with obscure, strange, or downright abstruse names for characters? how many started out with names just as "Obvious" and "Uninventive" as the ones people have been trying to get ever since? Just because someone equally uninventive got to the name before someone who joined 3 years on DOESN'T make the new player uncreative, short-sighted, or uninventive. It just makes him late. |
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| Sure. ou can name your red and gold spandex-clad fire/fire blaster Jim Taylor or "Operative Flame". But is that truly the heroic name he deserves? No. he should be named something inflammatory and brightly burning! And when you've exhausted every word that means "Fire" in English (and another language or two!) you'll either compromise from the name he deserves to something... Less. Or you might change his entire theme just so you can get "Operative" in there, or Cyber-Flame or something else. |
[quote]On http://thesaurus.com/browse/Fire there are 48 synonyms to Fire in the first two entries. Sure not all of them make decent names, but let's go with Fourty eight "Good" names using a synonym for flame OR a synonym for flame and a pronoun or title. Mr. Fire, Captain Flame, Fire Girl, etc.
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| So now you've got 48 "Good names" for a fire character. I've just done a Virtue search this moment on Heroside for the total amount of un-hidden characters. 761 heroes. |
On a hunch, I wanted to see how desired that name was, and as of the time of posting this, "Flame" is available on Pinnacle, as is "Fire." "Pyre," however is already in use. Good names running out my ***.
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| Lack of uniqueness. Perceived ownership of a commodity only made rare, unique, and special by a system put into place by the former design team who realized their mistake and rectified it in the next game they created. |
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| I have no love for the unique names system. I find it limiting, boring, and incredibly arbitrary. There is no good reason a person should have to search through thesauruses and obscure phrases for what they perceive to be a decent name indicative of their character. I will not, however, try to lobby for it's removal, since it's functionally impossible from everything I understand of how the game indexes characters. |
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| Needless to say, Clockwork Symphony will do things quite differently... |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I have called my DP The Gunfighter |
Originally Posted by Red Valkyrja
I've made a...
...wait for it... ...Dual Pistol. (Dark Miasma/DP Def to be exact.) The name? Wadcutter And get you minds out of the gutter, it's a type of bullet. |
Prof Radburn controller,Celtic Ice Maiden,blaster,Miss Knockout scrapper,Mistress Davina controller,Stone Hart,tank Split Personality PB.Queen Lostris controller,Fridgid Mary blaster,Shocking Fire blaster Future Elfling defender, Little Weed controller,Capo Angelo MM, Commander Buzzsaw MM, Justice Tank tank all 50,s
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I do... when the mood strikes me.|
Originally Posted by LISAR
Well then go play that then...
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But CoH will always be my first love.
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If I could fit all of this into my signature block (but giving you the credit, of course) I would. Well done! |
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Yes. Most people will say that "Obvious Names" are going to "Obviously" be taken. Haha. Yes. Sometimes you have to get "Creative" with names. But sitting on a high horse and waving your finger at others for not being inventive or creative enough to name their character a word or phrase so obscure that even well educated people will have trouble figuring it out without googling it isn't good naming. It's a last resort.
How many Beta players started out with obscure, strange, or downright abstruse names for characters? how many started out with names just as "Obvious" and "Uninventive" as the ones people have been trying to get ever since? Just because someone equally uninventive got to the name before someone who joined 3 years on DOESN'T make the new player uncreative, short-sighted, or uninventive. It just makes him late. Lack of uniqueness. Perceived ownership of a commodity only made rare, unique, and special by a system put into place by the former design team who realized their mistake and rectified it in the next game they created. |
[CENTER][U][COLOR=#22229c][URL="http://cit.cohtitan.com/character/53024"][IMG]http://avatars.cohtitan.com/signatures/cit/u53024.png[/IMG][/URL][/COLOR][/U][/CENTER]
[CENTER][SIZE=1][COLOR=white]The #1 True Villain badge collector on Infinity.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/CENTER]
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You can always screenshot it and put a giant pic in your sig.
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Originally Posted by Thaumator
If I could fit all of this into my signature block (but giving you the credit, of course) I would. Well done!
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Actually only the first part was for you. And yes. It is absurd that you searched the internet, found a word hidden in the bowels of the English language, took it as your name, and held it up high as a proud example that good names aren't taken. And yes. You did hold it up high and proud by putting a forum topic up with the title "Good character names are running out, huh?" The "Huh?" in particular insists response and does so in a "high" fashion.
As for most of the rest of your post: A lot of that wasn't direct responses to you. I didn't think I'd need a definite break of post to explain that text which blatantly didn't connect to your post wasn't directly in response to your post.
The "48 Good Names" example was assuming that people wouldn't use -every- synonym for fire but would instead slip in "Captain Fireball" and "Lady Flame" without a whole lot of variation. The idea was to keep the number of "Good" names (read Obvious names) small for the purpose of the demonstration. Even if people have a very narrow viewpoint on what constitutes a good name for a fire-based character and wind up using names out of the same batch of synonyms their chances of running into the same name are small. I'll notice you didn't quote or dispute that fact, so why are you taking out one of the variables of the equation and arguing it? We could make the number of "Obvious" names larger and the result would shrink. We could make it smaller and the result would grow. But i think assuming less than 50 fire-based names with only minor changes from specific words filling in the difference is a good baseline.
For your benefit On Virtue the names:
Flame
Fireball
Campfire
Coals (Seriously? I didn't expect THAT one to be taken)
Cannonade
Char
Conflagration
Ember
Flare
Heat
Holocaust (Not available for obvious reasons)
Inferno
Luminosity
Phlogiston
Pyre
Rapid oxidization (Yup. Seriously)
Scorch
Sear
Tinder
Bombard
Fussilade
Salvo
Volley
All are taken except for Flame, which is unavailable. I suppose there must be a DC or Marvel comic with that name. Now I've just put up 23 words which, by themselves are probably fairly decent names in some cases, good names in others, and a bit of a stretch for a couple. I did not go into the various Captains or mis-spellings, the word alterations because I've spent enough time alt-tabbing between the check name button and this page to show you that most of these words are taken as names. I'll also note that these 23 are the only ones I checked, but every one of them (Coals?!) was taken or unavailable.
As for the chance overlaps being too big of a chance: Eh. That's more than a touch of selfishness speaking. And no. I don't want your names. I don't want anyone's names. But if fifteen people all want to be called "Fire Guy" more power to them. It doesn't hurt -you- to see a bunch of newbs running around with the "Obvious" name. And you can sit back and dig through the internet for obscure words to have your own private name that noone will ever take.
Meanwhile it would offer a more friendly air to the new player who just spent over an hour fine-tuning and tweaking his costume to be exactly what he wants who then spends several minutes in frustration searching the internet for a synonym to a name he wanted when he got his costume set, before he even started on power customization. Perhaps he started out with "Fireball" and will wind up with "Phlogiston Sphere". Sure it's a ungique and interesting name, but it certainly doesn't roll off the tongue in the middle of a Fifth Column fist-fight. "Phlogiston Sphere?! Nein! You can't be here! You were supposed to die in the reactor!"
-Rachel-
Easy names I found on Freedom...
A month ago for my elec/elec scrapper - Electron Marshal (he is an interstellar lawman that has crash landed on Earth)
Two weeks ago for my rad/nrg blaster - Ms. Fusion (and to be honest I never thought to try Ms Fusion)
Those are pretty darn obvious names but I have to admit they weren't my 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th choices but they definitely work for me.
My 50s:
Prime Minister MA/SR Scrap - Protector
Captain Hit-Guy DM/Reg Scrap - Freedom
Prime-Minister ILL/TA Troller - Freedom
Ultimate Minister Inv/SS Tanker - Freedom
I think this whole tangent got started (or was it another thread) when people (like me) just tried to explain WHY they didn't see the need or interest to "race to 50" and so had little-to-no interest in "endgame material."
Me? I have three level 50's in over 5 years of play. Two of them wouldn't have gotten that far except I wanted to check out the epic AT's. Occasionally, I'm tempted to delete and reroll one of those three just to get her back to the right "feel." The other two are virtually retired- they might've gotten 20 minutes' play in the past year.