CoH, Bots, and RMT
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-01-19 20:22 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Horizons was big for such things. The Macro system in game allowed for all sorts of automated tasks. Then again, it was a heavy crafting MMO and it would get tedious after awhile, especially when working on your dragon.
The only game I ever "Botted" in was Jumpgate, and that still had human interaction. I wrote a program that filled they keyboard buffer with waypoints whenever you hit a key pattern. This way I could program mining routes or artifact search patterns and just tap the next button to go along. Still required me to be looking out for the contacts, as well as to send the signal I was at the current waypoint.
I do agree that games like CoH have very little use for bots in general. Never heard of the "Using a bot to farm for PVP drops" before so I can not speak to that.
This GSU team is actually Aion's GSU team. They specifically hired folks in for it because the botting and RMT has gotten so out of hand in Aion mostly due to stupid players clicking pr0n links on the forums and such. CoX has had more security issues but thats mostly due to aion. Once they get your master account they get all your NcSoft accounts. Had Aion not come along we probably would not even have a GSU at this time.
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So afk damage farming is botting? Putting a teammate on follow is botting? Seems a bit too tight for me if everyone here wants to ban bots. Control clicking to auto a power would be considered botting for that matter.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
If you've automated a task in the game so you can pay more attention to other things in the game while playing, you've macroed. If you've automated a task in the game so you no longer have to pay attention to the game at all, you've botted.
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I would tend to think of botting as requiring external control/scripts outside of the default game.
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Wait a second... Isn't Aion the game that included additional "anti cheating" software with it's installation to begin with? I forget what they called it.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
This GSU team is actually Aion's GSU team. They specifically hired folks in for it because the botting and RMT has gotten so out of hand in Aion mostly due to stupid players clicking pr0n links on the forums and such. CoX has had more security issues but thats mostly due to aion. Once they get your master account they get all your NcSoft accounts. Had Aion not come along we probably would not even have a GSU at this time.
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Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
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No, well sort of. It was disabled because it caused too many problems for the 64-bit windows users. Its installed but disabled. Also gameguard doesnt do crap to stop bots anyways. It can be hacked around in 30 seconds which is what many folks did.
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Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack
Wait a second... Isn't Aion the game that included additional "anti cheating" software with it's installation to begin with? I forget what they called it.
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Aion itself isnt all that bad. Its just too many idiots doing careless things with their passwords and such. Their RMT is just as bad as ours, its just that 99% of our game is instance missions so you never see the bots. If we actually had folks out there farming in the middle of the street the players here would be calling for something to be done. In our case we got annoying tells and emails and all we got to deal with it is a block list that is too short and a way to disable emails from non-friends and supergroup. They did absolutely nothing in terms of banning accounts and such. Aion on the other hand you know when a ban is about to happen. It summons a fire breathing squirel thingie that kills the gold spammer and bans them. Seeing stuff like this in action goes a long way to let players know you are doing something about the good of the game.
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Glad I avoided Aion.
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BanSquirrel dissaproves of your actions, and auto-hits for 9999 damage.|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
It summons a fire breathing squirel thingie that kills the gold spammer and bans them.
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Fail on you!
Combat log
That'd be pretty neat, seeing something like that hit the RMTs in this game. You catch them round and about, sometimes, a whole team of just science controllers with non-sensical names (I mean random gibberish) in AE, usually. Exit the mission, then, one by one, head back in. Pretty obvious.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I don't want a bot for the game, I want one for RL.
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Also, those sites have built up trust -- but it's always important to remember that that trust COULD be abused. It's unlikely that something like that could happen without it getting out into the community, though. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
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I do believe Mids' isn't a game add-on, but a external application that analyzes your build based on the data you enter manually. If that's true, then it can't collect info on your game use. Unless you're stupid enough to answer if it asks you for your username or password or something.
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I've seen that a time or two. But I always assumed it the characters were controlled by low wage workers at some Chinese gold farming outfit. I didn't even realize true software controlled bots were in CoH. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
You catch them round and about, sometimes, a whole team of just science controllers with non-sensical names (I mean random gibberish) in AE, usually. Exit the mission, then, one by one, head back in. Pretty obvious.
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Mine are different. I use one to log into forums and another to log into game
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Originally Posted by Canine
The problem I've got is that ^.
It's possible I'm being stupid and have missed something obvious, but I was under the impression that we have no choice but to use the same password for both the game forums and game account... |
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I'll point out that you quoted my definition, then gave three examples that don't meet that definition (in the first case there's no automation, and in the other two cases the automation - if you can call it that - typically meet the requirement that they are automating tasks for a player paying attention to other parts of the game during actual gameplay).
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Originally Posted by PumBumbler
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I would tend to think of botting as requiring external control/scripts outside of the default game. |
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I agree with that, yet I can also see it as a double-edged sword as pointed out by this;|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
If the game is so boring to you you have to set up an automated routine to continually play it for you so you can do something else - find a different game.
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Originally Posted by Katie V
Widespread use of bots is a sign that you, as a game designer, have made a major mistake. If there is content in your game that is both simple enough for a bot to play, and boring enough that many people will use a bot to play it, you need to re-think things.
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However, I do agree that if a game has a task so boring and repetitive that there are many players who will turn to a bot to do it, that task should be adjusted by the game developers.
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automation|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I'll point out that you quoted my definition, then gave three examples that don't meet that definition (in the first case there's no automation, and in the other two cases the automation - if you can call it that - typically meet the requirement that they are automating tasks for a player paying attention to other parts of the game during actual gameplay).
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noun
1. the technique, method, or system of operating or controlling a process by highly automatic means, as by electronic devices, reducing human intervention to a minimum.
2. a mechanical device, operated electronically, that functions automatically, without continuous input from an operator.
3. act or process of automating.
4. the state of being automated.
If you set up afk damage farming, it would presume that you've specifically formulated a scenario to optimize your incoming damage without getting defeated. Just because it requires no further intervention by you or anything outside of the game does not imply that there is no automation.
I would presume that your definition of botting is less precise than what you first suggested, as the latter two that I mentioned still do not require the attention of the player yet are still automated.
Again, I would make the point that using a control system that is external to the client which is automated is more productive to the term botting rather than using the officially provided tools to automate tasks.
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This is what they are looking to stop IMO. With pvp recipes going for a flat 2 billion on market, and 3-4 bill off market and being imminently bot farmable ( and really only bot farmable because to get one normally is regoddamndiculous amount of tedious no fun "playtime")|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
AFK farming for redside PvP recipe drops using a MM and a Regen or WP scrapper would be an example of botting.
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I was seeing RMTers in atlas last night on Protector simply standing around spamming local in Wents/AE. The prices for their wares are dropping steadily too from what i see, with a billion not worth half of what it used to be a short time ago.
What the devs really need to do is fix the pvp system/drop rates so the only people getting them arent the exploiters.
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this is exactly the issue we have in Aion. Most of the time they are taking quest mobs from you. But there are ways to manipulate this. What I do is train a huge amount of critters to the bots and cause them to die because do aoe damage to the mob of critters. The other way to get rid of them is to push the critters they are fighting off a cliff and have the bot to plummet to their deaths. All else fails we let the opossing faction have their way with the bots. Since there is open world pvp in a few of the zones that can happen quite often.
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Originally Posted by Shard_Warrior
I agree with that, yet I can also see it as a double-edged sword as pointed out by this;
Bots were an enormous problem when I played WoW several years ago. Players out doing quests in open areas would find themselves competing with bots that farmed the areas they needed to "kill x number of" or "collect x number of y" etc then having to wait around for a respawn. That was incredibly annoying. However, I do agree that if a game has a task so boring and repetitive that there are many players who will turn to a bot to do it, that task should be adjusted by the game developers. |
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Actually, by your own definition, it does imply there is no automation. Automation presumes an actual process being automated. If all I'm doing is standing still, there's no automation of a process. There's no operation or control.|
Originally Posted by PumBumbler
automation
–noun 1. the technique, method, or system of operating or controlling a process by highly automatic means, as by electronic devices, reducing human intervention to a minimum. 2. a mechanical device, operated electronically, that functions automatically, without continuous input from an operator. 3. act or process of automating. 4. the state of being automated. If you set up afk damage farming, it would presume that you've specifically formulated a scenario to optimize your incoming damage without getting defeated. Just because it requires no further intervention by you or anything outside of the game does not imply that there is no automation. |
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| I would presume that your definition of botting is less precise than what you first suggested, as the latter two that I mentioned still do not require the attention of the player yet are still automated. |
If you've automated a task in the game so you can pay more attention to other things in the game while playing, you've macroed.
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| Again, I would make the point that using a control system that is external to the client which is automated is more productive to the term botting rather than using the officially provided tools to automate tasks. |
It also places the tag of botting on any external automation, even if that external automation doesn't perform tasks traditionally associated with botting. For example, a programmable keyboard that had a hotkey which turned on all my toggles in rapid sequence would be a bot by your definition.
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There has to be a better way of getting these types of announcements to players other than posting them on the forums.
I can't even speculate on how many people use the forums versus how many actual players there are, but I do know for my immediate group friends who I play with, I'm probably the only one who regularly checks the forums.
In my opinion, getting information to players should be more of a priority - either via Email, in-game pops/GMOTD, etc.
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Bots also require a third party of some sorts - either a keyboard scripting program or a mouse clicking program.|
If you set up afk damage farming, it would presume that you've specifically formulated a scenario to optimize your incoming damage without getting defeated. Just because it requires no further intervention by you or anything outside of the game does not imply that there is no automation. I would presume that your definition of botting is less precise than what you first suggested, as the latter two that I mentioned still do not require the attention of the player yet are still automated. Again, I would make the point that using a control system that is external to the client which is automated is more productive to the term botting rather than using the officially provided tools to automate tasks. |
Damage farming is not considered botting because nothing is happening really. You set your character up and when you come back, your character is still exactly the same. No Third party tool has kept alive or done something else while you were away.
Same for AFK follow. Your character is doing 1 task that you told it to do - follow that dude! Once the mission is over and "That dude!" leaves, your character just does nothing.
An example of botting would be having a keyboard script hit CTL+1, CTL+2, Alt+3, Space bar, Repeat over and over again. This would allow your character to follow your target and use Powers 1,2, and 3 on your target and then jump.
Edit
Several people beat me to it - Disregard
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No, it would not. The only definition of botting that matters is this one (from the official post):|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
AFK farming for redside PvP recipe drops using a MM and a Regen or WP scrapper would be an example of botting.
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| If you use third party applications that control your game playwhich is the literal definition of botsyou will lose your account, and nothing you say will get it back. |
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Its already in game on Aion. The GMs broadcast this crap in big bold yellow worlds that fill your chat and your actual screen. Its annoying as hell when you are in the middle of combat. People always be retards, you cant protect themselves from being stupid its just how it is. 99% of all the Aion hackings are brought on by the user in some way shape or form. People swear up and down they did nothing wrong but later on it comes out that said person download a keylogger or Aion trojan by clicking the free Wii sex bot toy link.|
Originally Posted by SolarSentai
There has to be a better way of getting these types of announcements to players other than posting them on the forums.
I can't even speculate on how many people use the forums versus how many actual players there are, but I do know for my immediate group friends who I play with, I'm probably the only one who regularly checks the forums. In my opinion, getting information to players should be more of a priority - either via Email, in-game pops/GMOTD, etc. /2 inf |
Its frustrating because NcSoft is considering the use of Fobs for some of their games. I know in Korea they are testing this now. To me its not going to solve anything as I said before you cant protect folks from being stupid. It will just be a matter of time before the hackers figure out how to emulate the Fobs and we are back to square one again but still paying extra for something that doesnt do squat that got forced on us to use do to stupid people.
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