GR Market Info from Hero-Con
By
Abigail Frost,
Posted on: 2009-10-24 24:58 in The Market and Inventions
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Well, damn, Werner said it better and earlier. Lrn2readentirethread. |
Originally Posted by Werner
Frankly, I think it is TRIVIAL to resolve a merged market from a role play stand point - ROLE PLAY THAT THEY AREN'T MERGED. There are NO names or faction information associated with any of the goods available. You will NEVER meet these people. Role play that all of the goods are from blue side if you're blue side, or red side if you're red side. If you can suspend disbelief enough to role play in the first place, this one should be EASY. How is this troubling people? How do people see this as killing immersion and role play? Seriously???
As for not merging the markets because the devs want parity FIRST... *facepalm* As for this kiling red side, one minor reason I prefer blue side is that I prefer the availability of goods on the blue side market. I am at least slightly more likely to play red side if the markets are merged. As the goat says, "I'm not getting the logic behind 'a big merged market with more of everything would turn off villain players, while a small, undersupplied market rife with profiteering wouldn't.'" |
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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This is not workable because people often don't play for significant periods of time. Anyone who didn't log in during that period would lose their items. People leave the game for months and expect their items to still be there. At this point, deleting items on the market is no more acceptable than deleting recipes or salvage from their characters.|
Originally Posted by Blood Spectre
Give warning. Put it on the MOTD when people log in. Tell them to take their **** down, the market is going down for a few days. Tell them items left on will be deleted.
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Originally there was a 60 day limit on items left on the market, but that was removed a couple of issues ago. The market is now essentially another personal bank where you can store a lot more stuff (especially multiple items of the same type, such as salvage).
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The 60 day limit is still present for inactive accounts|
Originally Posted by Rodion
This is not workable because people often don't play for significant periods of time. Anyone who didn't log in during that period would lose their items. People leave the game for months and expect their items to still be there. At this point, deleting items on the market is no more acceptable than deleting recipes or salvage from their characters.
Originally there was a 60 day limit on items left on the market, but that was removed a couple of issues ago. The market is now essentially another personal bank where you can store a lot more stuff (especially multiple items of the same type, such as salvage). |
Anyone who leaves for months will lose/have lost their stuff anyway.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
So my Brute can become a good guy and go hang out blueside and do all that content, but every 10 minutes when my salvage/recipes fill up....I have to go all the way back to the Rogue Isles to sell my stuff? Could they possible have done this worse?
I'm not saying they should or shouldn't merge the markets, but if you go rogue you should definetly be able to trade with anyone and use either market. Anything less is just ridiculous.
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Besides agreeing with the Goat, I have to say that I'm on the opposite side of the fence with this Knight, but for the same reason.|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Looks to me like Paragon Studios just lost 2 sales on their product. My wife and I won't be buying Going Rogue unless/until the markets are merged. My semi-retired villians will be going into permanent retirement and may be heading to the trash bin.
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I WILL buy GR and I WILL move EVERY villain I have to Paragon. Come this time next year, I don't think I'll ever see the Rogue Isles again.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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How do we know Wentworth's gets all their goods legally?
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Originally Posted by Effy_On_Malibu
They can't merge them even if changing sides is possible.
The black market is just that, a illegal trade site only in the know villains know about, How can a goodie-to-shoes hero use it? |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I have the feeling a lot of people will be that way, if for no other reason than what is keeping people on redside are metagame factors that are going away. |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I WILL buy GR and I WILL move EVERY villain I have to Paragon. Come this time next year, I don't think I'll ever see the Rogue Isles again. |
I just don't see GR being friendly at all to the Rogue Isles..........
I didn't even think to ask this question and its just begging to be asked.
If you are in Praetoria for 20 levels or so and you are going to be stuck there while your toon transitions are they going to have a market ?
Edit: And if so who can use it ?
Edit: And will there be Praetorian inf ?
Edit: And Praetorian Merits and Tickets ? And If you do switch over what happens to your existing stocks of whatever ?
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This whole post is wrong on so many levels it isn't even funny.|
Originally Posted by Cardiff_Giant
If I'm not mistaken, the last time this subject came up and was commented on by Devs, they said it was some sorta "database issue"...
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The data base "issue" you are refering to is the one that they set up in I9 specifically to keep the markets apart. They could have (and should have) saved themselves quite a bit of work by starting with a single market.
The only consequence of merging the markets now would be that it would be a one way trip. They wouldn't be able to separate them again (easily if at all).
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Something to do with identifying each item, that there was some attribute that branded it Red or Blue? OR, maybe that there wasn't a way to incorporate the existing market databases, because the databases/markets set-up didn't have a method (code wise) to interact with each other? I'm 95% certain it was something very close to one of those things. |
The only thing stopping it from interacting is the code they put in there in the first place to separate them.
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Aside from implementation, if it were a true merger... that would potentially cut the number of available "niches" in (roughly) half. Pet recipes would be an "outlier" of sorts & maybe a couple other things like YinO's. From the Devil's advocate perspective, that could really "downsize the Marketing Mini-game", seems like that could be bad. Sure, there would be benefits (that have already been discussed to DEATH, over a couple years - need to go back into that 'can-of-worms' again), please 
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Maybe one of our Dev Overlords, or one of the new-ish Devs will re-visit the discussion again, and explain the current 'company stand' on the matter. That is of course AFTER, checking with their overlords for permission to speak on such matters. Maybe it's an "impossible-ish" implementation problem, that could be worked out... IF they think its wise, and worth the time and effort to tackle another pseudo-impossible problem. (They're probably still doing some work on completing Power Customization... *ahem* Pool Powers.) |
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Then again, last time they listened to us players about something like that ("customizable mobs/bosses must be in the MA") = we ended up with the whole MA/AE debacle. 
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I think this could (rather easily) turn into another "be careful what you wish for" situation, where we end up wishing they hadn't messed with it at all. *shrug* Like for instance, oh idk... maybe the "PvP-revamp"! 
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-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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My wife and my intentions were to transfer our existing villians to Paragon City as heros, put them in our blueside SG, and shut the redside one down. I bought CoV when it came out and played it for about 1 full issue with only occasional returns since I6. Most of my villians were deleted to make room for more heros. I have 1 Dom, 1 Brute, and one MM left from that time and I have a fire/fire Dom I started on live during the revamp for testing purposes. My wife has a Brute and a Widow that she wants to transfer in the same way.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Besides agreeing with the Goat, I have to say that I'm on the opposite side of the fence with this Knight, but for the same reason.
I WILL buy GR and I WILL move EVERY villain I have to Paragon. Come this time next year, I don't think I'll ever see the Rogue Isles again. |
If our option with GR is to play on blue side but still have to shop red side and are unable to pass insps, enhancements, recipes, and salvage back and forth between red and blue then it isn't worth the money to buy GR. We have all ready mostly abandoned red side, our only real interest is preserving the characters.
If we can transfer them completely and they become blue side characters in every meaning of the word then we would do that and buy more character slots for our new alts. If the bottom line is that this isn't possible to transfer them completely and permanently then we won't buy GR and we won't need to buy more character slots since deleteing our red side toons will open those old slots back up.
There were many times that I teamed with her in RWZ, me on a controller and her on her brute or her on a scrapper and me on my Dom and we were constantly annoyed by being unable to pass a wakie back and forth or if I got a melee recipe and she got a hold recipe that we weren't able to swap them. If GR doesn't solve those issues we have no real desire to get it and will solve our teaming issues ourselves by deleteing the redside toons.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
I wonder if it will be worth the time to be an INF runner.
Also, merge the markets.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
Well, to give you guys some hope...
I remember the days when villains couldn't access hero epics, for all sorts of silly reasons. Lo and behold an issue came and Stalkers and Doms got Hibernate and so on. It just took them a long time to warm to the idea.
So...a merge is possible, you guys just need to be as noisy as we were. 
Realistically though, this is just bull-headedness on the part of the devs.
I'm fairly sure my vills will sneak into herotown, grind Merits ultra fast in Posi TF etc, go back redside and cash them in and sell the items.
RP reasons? Laughable.
If it's a Black Market some of those trinkets may already come from Paragon City.
I'm a heroine but I use SOUL TRAPPED GEMS. I use the essence of an evil, earth-corrupting entity called the Hamidon to boost my powers and its goo to craft enhancements.
Need I go on? My heroes routinely pound in the faces of thousands of villains cloned from hero DNA, routinely bust heads of mages from an older than civilization's empire...come on, give the RP a rest folks.
If you won''t let us merge Markets than let us at least trade goods (inspirations!) between factions.
I'll be getting two copies of GR but this is FAIL.
The inf disparity is always going to be there. More people will always play blueside, for whatever reasons.
MERGE THE DAMNED MARKETS.
I'm sick of not getting items for weeks, I'm sick at the lack of supply, I'm sick at how many more Merits I can get blueside.
It's stupid, it's an RP contrivance and its time is past due.
MERGE THE DAMNED MARKETS
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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What Neuronia wrote. |
Originally Posted by Neuronia
The inf disparity is always going to be there. More people will always play blueside, for whatever reasons. MERGE THE DAMNED MARKETS. I'm sick of not getting items for weeks, I'm sick at the lack of supply, I'm sick at how many more Merits I can get blueside. It's stupid, it's an RP contrivance and its time is past due. MERGE THE DAMNED MARKETS |
When I read the teaser about the markets, I was not very happy at all. If this remains the same I will do the same thing EvilGeko is planning to do, provided that when you go completely hero that you get access to WW.
This decision is not well thought out.
~MR
AE Arc: 305214 Blood Diamonds (Villainous)
Unleashed/Unchained/B.O.S.S.
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That's what EVERYONE will do. Leave the Rogue Isles and never look back.
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Originally Posted by MindRipper
What Neuronia wrote.
When I read the teaser about the markets, I was not very happy at all. If this remains the same I will do the same thing EvilGeko is planning to do, provided that when you go completely hero that you get access to WW. This decision is not well thought out. ~MR |
Paragon Unleashed, Unleash Yourself!
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Speaking from a PvP perspective, the addition of useful powers to the patron pools was one step forward and a dozen back, but I see your point. |
Originally Posted by Neuronia
Well, to give you guys some hope...
I remember the days when villains couldn't access hero epics, for all sorts of silly reasons. Lo and behold an issue came and Stalkers and Doms got Hibernate and so on. It just took them a long time to warm to the idea. So...a merge is possible, you guys just need to be as noisy as we were. |
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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As stated several times throughout the forums already... ummm, no.| That's what EVERYONE will do. Leave the Rogue Isles and never look back. |
I spend 90% of my game time villain side now. That won't change. I'm not alone in this.
Be well, people of CoH.
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While much of what you say may be true, You may not realize that raising the influence cap may be far more difficult if not impossible, at least from a practical point, to do with the existing program code.|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
That's an entirely different situation. This is simply merging two identical systems that have been working properly as far as mechanics go since I10. The largest concerns would be those folks that have more than 2 billion stored in WW or the BM by bidding on items that don't exist. The devs would have to cancel all bids, cancel all posts and refund the listing fee (this would do nothing to stored/for sale items except remove the offer. Slots are finite the goods would just sit there until the next time their owner logged on to repost them.) They'd have to increase the inf cap (at least temporarily) to account for those players that have more than the current inf cap tied up in the market.
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The number 2 Billion is significant to programmers since it is the upper range of a 32 bit signed number. That is 2 to the 31st power with the remaining bit used to denote positive or negative. Depending on the program and the language it can be a nightmare to convert not only the database, but the program itself to handle 64 bit numbers. It can involve lost data as well as unintended bugs and consequences to change 32 bit to 64 bit numbers. Likewise such changes would slow down database searches as well as double the amount of data that must be sent for all Wentworth’s price queries. You know that lag many people experiance when doing price searches. That may go up 2 fold, 4 fold or even higher.
Not that NC Soft is unique in this issue. Microsoft, Adobe and many billion dollar corporations have been blind sided by this exact number resulting in untold millions if not billions of dollars in lost data and productivity due to the 32 bit limitation.
When CoH was first developed I doubt anyone really thought that players would ever save up more then a hundread million influence, let alone surpass 2 billion. Back then 100 million could purchase 3000+ SOs. Yea us for meeting and exceeding expectations!!! Where is our end of year bonus checks?
HP Lovecat
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
As stated several times throughout the forums already... ummm, no.
I spend 90% of my game time villain side now. That won't change. I'm not alone in this. |
But why do you spend 90% of your game time villain side? Unless it's for the content (which has been mostly stagnant since I7), there's no longer any reason to be there. ATs will not be limited by side anymore.
But if you're still staying red side, to each his own. I can't wait to leave that depressing place, now more than ever. And if my villains can't redeem enough to use WWs then, I'm probably going to retire most of them, and just start any new villain ATs in Praetoria.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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If it comes down to a choice between access to the well supplied blueside market and rewards vs. the crappy redside equivalents, then I'll be moving most, if not all, of my villains as well.
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Originally Posted by Blood Spectre
That's what EVERYONE will do. Leave the Rogue Isles and never look back.
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Full side switching and market access confirmed here:
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Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
It will be possible for a Hero to become a Villain and a Villain to become a Hero. Rogue and Vigilante are the grey areas between those two extremes. They have the flexibility to move between both sides, team up, and play through the content, but can only use the market on their 'side' until they complete the transition.
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Ok, not liking this much myself, but on the other hand, lets say characters could access either market......so I take a villain and have it "repent" and become a Rogue and then it goes to the nearest Wentworths where there prices are cheaper.......and then after shopping and installing its upgrades, the rogue reveals itself to still be a villain and laughs "SUCKERS! Now I am PURPLE POWERED!" and heads back to the Rogue Isles.
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Vigilantes can only access wentworth's, and rogues can only access the black market
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This^^^. I have my own reasons for wanting the markets merged, but nothing will keep me from my precious villains. In addition, the current RP reason for the merger, or against it, is ludicrous. I don't have a problem with an RP reason for the markets to be separated, so long as it makes sense. This one doesn't.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
As stated several times throughout the forums already... ummm, no.
I spend 90% of my game time villain side now. That won't change. I'm not alone in this. |
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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OR at least set price caps. It's ridiculous to see recipies selling for some of the exhorbitant prices that appear on the market.
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Originally Posted by Neuronia
Well, to give you guys some hope...
I remember the days when villains couldn't access hero epics, for all sorts of silly reasons. Lo and behold an issue came and Stalkers and Doms got Hibernate and so on. It just took them a long time to warm to the idea. So...a merge is possible, you guys just need to be as noisy as we were. Realistically though, this is just bull-headedness on the part of the devs. I'm fairly sure my vills will sneak into herotown, grind Merits ultra fast in Posi TF etc, go back redside and cash them in and sell the items. RP reasons? Laughable. If it's a Black Market some of those trinkets may already come from Paragon City. I'm a heroine but I use SOUL TRAPPED GEMS. I use the essence of an evil, earth-corrupting entity called the Hamidon to boost my powers and its goo to craft enhancements. Need I go on? My heroes routinely pound in the faces of thousands of villains cloned from hero DNA, routinely bust heads of mages from an older than civilization's empire...come on, give the RP a rest folks. If you won''t let us merge Markets than let us at least trade goods (inspirations!) between factions. I'll be getting two copies of GR but this is FAIL. The inf disparity is always going to be there. More people will always play blueside, for whatever reasons. MERGE THE DAMNED MARKETS. I'm sick of not getting items for weeks, I'm sick at the lack of supply, I'm sick at how many more Merits I can get blueside. It's stupid, it's an RP contrivance and its time is past due. MERGE THE DAMNED MARKETS |
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Wentworth and Blackmarket need to taken over by a third party and set it up as an independent company that equally supplies to both sides and answers to neither.
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Originally Posted by Effy_On_Malibu
They can't merge them even if changing sides is possible.
The black market is just that, a illegal trade site only in the know villains know about, How can a goodie-to-shoes hero use it? |
(1) There are reasons to stay redside other than immersion. I prefer redside content.
(2) A merged market would not in a million years break my immersion. I think anyone who finds it immersion breaking has a weaksauce imagination.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)