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If anyone can save gravity, Jesus can.
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Originally Posted by DocDominion
How bad really IS gravity? There's no way it's un-saveable, right? |
Shenanigans
LotD - JaL - POWT/SMD - SoCo - AJs
DrMike, thanks a million for the plethora of knowledge!
Very helpful indeed, and re-assuring too. Now, people are saying there's alot of posts like this, can anybody provide links to such posts? And I still have yet to see an actual build, can anyone play around in Mid's for me? I have it, but I have absolutely NO idea where to even start as a grav/emp controller, as my only other character is a 50 scrapper. :P
Thanks a bunch so far guys, this is great!
(Jesus flies, duh silly)
Of course he flies. I was thinking of Jumpin' Jehosaphat!
For guides, try the Defender forum for empathy advice. Do read Psyonico's "Who to buff as an Empath" guide though. Its in the sticky post at the top of this forum under Secondaries, and gives some very good tips.
I dont have Mids handy, but a rough build would be...
1 Healing Aura (5)(5)(7)(13) - recharge, end and heal. 5 Doctored Wounds gives +5% Recharge
1 Crush (15)(17)(17)(19)(19) - slot for damage. 6 Thunderstrikes is nice.
2 Gravity Distortion (3)(3)(7)(13)(15) - 2 Acc,2 Hold, 2 Recharge, or Hold, rech + 4 * Acc/Hold/Rech IOs
4 Absorb Pain/Heal Other* (34)(36)(37) - Healing and recharge I guess
6 Swift
8 Propel (9)(9)(11)(11)(21) - Damage mainly. 6 Thunderstrikes again.
10 Resurrect
12 Hover
14 Fly
16 Clear Mind
18 Health
20 Stamina (21) - End Mod
22 Fortitude (23)(23)(25)(25) 3 rech and 3 Def, can get equivalent by Frankenslotting IOs.
24 Assault ** (34) - 2 End
26 Wormhole (27)(27)(31)(31)(31) - 2 acc, 2 rech, 2 stun or rech, stun + 4 *acc/rech/stun Ios
28 Recovery Aura (29)(29) - 3 rech
30 Tactics ** - oops forgot! Slot for end redux first
32 Singularity (33)(33)(33) - 1 acc 3 dam. Recharge doesnt matter - he rarely dies.
35 Regen Aura (36)(36)(37)(37) - Doctored wounds * 5, focussing on rehcarge then heal.
38 Adrenalin Boost
* Absorb Pain is great pre-Stamina for its low end cost. Later on, respec into Heal Other - its weaker heal but much shorter recharge and you wont damage yourself.
** maybe swap one of these out for Hasten. Youve got a lot of long recharge powers (Auras, Adrenalin Boost, Fortitude, Wormhole) that really benefit form this.
If you like, swap the Thunderstrike sets in Propel and Crush for Decimation, for the +6.25% recharge bonus. recharge is king on this build.
Ive slotted Heal Other very late for your concept, so fix as necessary. I'm kind of viewing soloability here, and slotting up your damage attacks.
Always establish containment before using Propel, either with Crush or Gravity Distortion. You want to double that damage, considering the 3.5 second activation on it.
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Did it occur to you that you are getting those replies because what you are trying to do is both not possible (AoE-focused Healer) and ridiculous (having a controller focus only on healing).|
Originally Posted by DocDominion
Hey, I'm pretty angry that I got 19 replies and 18 of them weren't really helpful. And I hope you all realize you're ripping on Jesus here.
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As has been pointed out, Healing is of limited utility... whereas Control and Buff/Debuff are of incredible utility. In fact, if those last three things get done properly, one would (nearly) invalidate a need to do the first thing!
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I'm not recommending that you make a single-target healer. I'm just saying that there aren't enough powers to do nothing but heal. With Empathy there's a maximum of three heals, one of which I'd never take (Absorb Pain, because it's better to crank up recharge on your other heals).|
Originally Posted by DocDominion
Sorry, I should have clarified.
Yes, I want one of my builds to do nothing but heal, and to be able to keep my group alive, regardless of how the tank is doing. A single target healer is an okay alternative if Grav/Emp is no good at AoE heals, and that's fine, I just want to put extra emphasis on my one AoE ability. So for a single target healer, anybody have any suggested builds? |
Doing nothing but healing is akin to driving a car only on two of its four wheels. Yes, you can do it by tilting the car up on one side and going real fast. But you're going to fall over very soon and it won't be pretty when you do.
I find it works best to use the single target heal for the melee characters at range and the area heal for the squishies who stand near you. That way you keep yourself and the other squishies together out of stun and AoE range by the tanker.
I don't have a build, but can make some general recommendations:
Basically, to heal and buff well with Empathy you want to maximize global recharge and recharge on your heals and buffs. The Doctored Wounds set is one of the best for Healing Aura and Heal Other because it includes a 5% +Recharge bonus. Six-slotting DW on those powers gives 95% Heal and Recharge and 64% end reduction at level 35.
You also want to maximize recharge on Fortitude, Adrenalin Boost and Regeneration Aura. Pick sets that give you recharge bonuses (six-slot Doctored Wounds and five-slot Red Fortune with one Recharge in Fortitude). You should be able to keep Fortitude on three or four people if you're diligent about it. Remember that you can only make use of five of each particular named percentage of the recharge bonus -- if you have five DW and one Red Fortune you'll only get 25% recharge bonus from those six sets.
You'll probably want to take Hasten.
If you're focusing on healing, you'll want to avoid powers that generate massive aggro, which means AoEs. That means skipping Crushing Field. You should still take your AoE hold. Unfortunately, it may also mean skipping Wormhole, which has a pretty big delay between the time you fire it off and it actually takes effect (Mids says 2.7 seconds). I've been attacked by the mob I'm using it on before the mob is actually teleported away. This is a good one to do around the corner out of line-of-sight so you don't get creamed.
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The difference between a respite and a "healer" is one gets experience, and the other gets replaced.
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Originally Posted by Thirty_Seven
As has been pointed out, Healing is of limited utility... whereas Control and Buff/Debuff are of incredible utility. In fact, if those last three things get done properly, one would (nearly) invalidate a need to do the first thing! |
I agree - a "healer" is more than someone running around putting bandaides on hurt heroes. Running a trollie/healer is very situational. I have several that I enjoy playing very much. Having joined this game when it was pretty new and levelling a healer to 50 as my first try, I eventually managed to get the healing side down pat. As a controller/healer you have to adapt to your teams. Do you have a tank who collects the mobs and bunches them nicely for the aoe damage dealers? Wait until he does then lock them down and use the spare time buffing. Running with a wild team that just plows through and ends up with a happy free for all? Find your weak spots and concentrate on them, keeping your controlling powers for damage alleviation on bosses and lieutenants. Make sure you let your team know that you are following the team leader or tank and for squishies to stay near you for your area heals. In my opinion, you can do effective minimized control by concentrating your trollie powers on the holds, skipping any immobs. This will give you more of the empath powers. But don't concentrate on either area heals or single target heals because both are needed if you want to heal. It's fun running a controller/emp - but it's not something that is easy. You have to keep your eyes on the mob and on the team members.
Hope this made sense, though I've been playing this game for many years I have always refrained from posting - there are so many wiser folks out here than me. But I couldn't resist since I have played several trollie/emps to 50. If you don't want the team upset at you for neglecting one or the other - it keeps you on your toes 
.
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Um, Psalms is Old Testament, and Jesus didn't show up until the New Testament . . . David wrote some of the Psalms, so maybe it was David who threw the forklift with his sling . . .
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Originally Posted by SlimPickens
Psalms 4:20 " And Lo did Jesus thowest the holy forklift at his enemies, and he smotest them mightily." Amen.
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LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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It isn't the OP's fault that there exists 5 years of stigma against using the term Healer. The very first response to him was a bit of a rant, and he did get about 10 other rants, so his slightly surprised and irritated reaction is understandable. |
Originally Posted by Thirty_Seven
Did it occur to you that you are getting those replies because what you are trying to do is both not possible (AoE-focused Healer) and ridiculous (having a controller focus only on healing).
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Anyway, I'd think that you (the OP) can easily snag a few of the most useful powers in Gravity (Crush, GD, either Lift or Propel, Wormhole, Singularity). CF and GDF are optional/situational, but nice. You'll have plenty of room to get most of the Empathy powers (I like all of them except Absorb Pain) and be an excellent character overall.
After that, you could look at getting as much global recharge as you can, without sacrificing your controls, or without sacrificing your recharge and healing values on your healing powers. Just sneak as much global recharge as you can into your build, using IO sets. That will help your controls AND your heals. It may be obvious, but still, I just wanted to mention that.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
Gravity Control is okay. It's arguably the weakest Control set but does some unique things. The only thing kind of annoying about Gravity mixed with Empathy is that you can't heal your pet.
Empathy as a Controller secondary is just fine as long as you go into it with the right expectations. It is the most healer-y of the power sets in City of Heroes but it will not make you into a Holy Priest from some other game.
Now, the reason you haven't received a lot of build advice is that there pretty much isn't any Controller (or Defender) build that makes a character viable as a pure healer. Even at level 1, you will have access to a hold (or blast). To not use it holds back your team. This becomes more and more evident as you approach level 50 and Blasters, Defenders, and Controllers start getting dropped in 2 or 3 hits. It is critical to control the amount of damage being directed at the party in addition to restoring HP. Your role is not to heal, but keep people alive.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SlimPickens
Psalms 4:20 " And Lo did Jesus thowest the holy forklift at his enemies, and he smotest them mightily." Amen.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
Um, Psalms is Old Testament, and Jesus didn't show up until the New Testament . . . David wrote some of the Psalms, so maybe it was David who threw the forklift with his sling . . .
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), so I shan't fret about the Holy Singularity or the other silly details that ensue...I have never played any Empathy characters. My Controllers have all concentrated on controlling. If the notion is to "Heal First" and do some controlling when not actively healing, then the question can be broached as to what Primary would be most effective, but one might also wonder why an Empathy Defender would not be the first thought, as one would get more "oomph" on the AoE heals. But as to how to get the most mileage out of /Emp in the OP's scenario, I cannot offer anything more than the obvious suggestions already made.
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
There're only so many healing powers you can take, and your AoE heal's half as strong as your single-target heal and recharges more slowly. That said, Empathy's a pretty good choice for your concept considering it's completely focused on buffs and heals.
Technically, Adrenaline Boost and Regeneration Aura are long-duration heal-over-time spells, they just tend to get categorized by players as buffs rather than heals. It's hard to make either effects permanent, though I managed to get enough recharge to make Adrenaline Boost permanent. That cost me at least a couple hundred million influence, and I had the advantage of being able to slot two cheap purple sets (the sleep and confuse sets).
Hell, I picked Empathy for concept reasons too--my character seemed more the sort to buff than debuff (she's odd though and is likely to inflict weird if usually not negative effects on others).
Not sure why Gravity for the concept though I can see Singularity as a holy spirit?
Even if you can't afford IO sets at this point, just keep in mind that you want recharge for the powers with long recharge. So, the equal of three recharge SOs in those powers (anything more won't do nearly as much). For example, Fortitude (your blessing to make them harder to hit and stronger) gets three recharge, three defense. Recovery Aura gets three recharge. Regeneration Aura gets three recharge, three heal. Hasten gets three recharge. Adrenaline Boost gets three recharge and three heal.
I think those're all of the particularly long recharge powers I can think of. You don't usually need more than one slot in Resurrect (one recharge is fine).
Clear Mind (which in fact does cure blindness among other fun effects it prevents from affecting people) would probably be fine with nothing in its own slot, but one recharge works here. Makes it a very tiny bit more quick to put it on more than on person. It recharges quickly enough anything more's a waste.
Heal Other and Healing Aura get three heal IOs. Other than that, they don't really need more than maybe a single recharge.
I didn't bother with Absorb Pain (found it too risky), but it sounds like something Jesus might have since he's so self-sacrificing. Just be careful when you use it--it damages and prevents healing you for a brief time afterward.
If you command the enemy to stand still (by using your holds, or by combining stun and an immobilize), you can prevent a lot of damage (which sometimes would otherwise come in faster than you could heal it). Your Fortitudes can also help prevent that damage even if the enemy's still capable of doing damage. Plus any Adrenaline Boost or Regeneration Aura active on the character will tick back that lost health quickly.
And then you heal what damage still gets through all that. If you operate this way, you'll save your teammates' lives far more often--the heals're too low in power on their own but very excellent when combined with other protections. This is very important to understand: this game seems to have weaker heals than other games, but stronger non-healing mitigation methods (mezzes, shields, and so on). You generally won't see defensive buffs anywhere near as large as CoH's in other games.
Quote:
What I was thinkin'. But 1 Timothy 3:4 bails the concept character out:|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
Um, Psalms is Old Testament, and Jesus didn't show up until the New Testament . . . David wrote some of the Psalms, so maybe it was David who threw the forklift with his sling . . .
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One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
Um, Psalms is Old Testament, and Jesus didn't show up until the New Testament . . . David wrote some of the Psalms, so maybe it was David who threw the forklift with his sling . . .
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Reptlbrain
What I was thinkin'. But 1 Timothy 3:4 bails the concept character out:
One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity. |
Obviously, Jesus was using Lift on the moneychangers' tables, too...
(Yeah, I'm reaching here.)But the basic problem with Jesus as a character is that He would really need to be Level EleventyBillionInfinity.
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
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Originally Posted by Tabik
Never mind.
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ok. This.
OK I tried to make a build that would be optimal for what you want and it was really weak for play. It ends up wasting slots in powers that wouldn't need them if your control powers were properly slotted in the first place. I almost posted it, but really it's terrible. It would suffice on easy missions with a good team, but wouldn't cut it on difficult missions with other players having suboptimal builds as well.
Honestly, Grav/Emp would do best to focus on Single Target Hold, Aoe Immobilize, Aoe Hold, Hasten, Wormhole, and Fortitude. Get all of those 6 slotted, with good recharge on everything but the Immobilize, and you shouldn't need to do much healing. If Fortitude is properly slotted, you can keep it up on two people at a time and pretty much anyone on the team can tank for you when they have it on. Once you learn when you want to use each of those powers, even Gravity will be effective, backed up with good buffs, and the occasional heal. If you concentrate on healing, rather than mitigating damage in the first place, I suspect you will find you have more agro than you can survive. Of course that could be good roleplay, with Jesus repeatedly dieing a martyr.
It appears you got it wrong: Jesus was Emp/AR.
Alright, love some jesus killing natzi ACTION!!!!!
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MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
Quote:
Uhm, saying "You can't do that" isn't an unhelpful reply.|
Originally Posted by DocDominion
Hey, I'm pretty angry that I got 19 replies and 18 of them weren't really helpful. And I hope you all realize you're ripping on Jesus here.
Anyway, I made the character early when I started and it seemed like fun, so I stuck with it. I DON't want to re-roll to defender, and I already have two builds, one as a troller, and one as a healer. How bad really IS gravity? There's no way it's un-saveable, right? I mean, suppose I get our lord and savior to 50, he'll be able to pack a punch, won't he? Anyways, thanks for all the replies, but I'd prefer more like the last one, that is, "Well, I don't like what you're doing, but here's how I would do it..." Blessed art thou. |
I mean really now. You have ONE AoE heal. No more. You can't run around using only one power. Well, okay, you CAN, but it would be rather ineffective. Either A) you won't be healing anyone worth a darn and everyone will faceplant or B) the team has its act together and no one NEEDS healing.
Now Grav/Emp is a viable combo, but NOT if you're only going to spam one power.
Also, given the Big J's way of converting people to his cause, I'd almost say Mind is a better thematic choice (2 confuse powers). But that's just IMO.
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
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Aggro? Why do you think he would gather aggro?|
Originally Posted by Sweetmeat
If you concentrate on healing, rather than mitigating damage in the first place, I suspect you will find you have more agro than you can survive. Of course that could be good roleplay, with Jesus repeatedly dieing a martyr.
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Anyway, here's my own opinion on the most crucial powers of Gravity Control:
Gravity Distortion (single-target hold)
Gravity Distortion Field (AoE hold)
Wormhole
Singularity (it's like having an extra controller spamming single-target holds, immobilizes, and knockups)
Those powers help shut down foes' damage dealing. Hard.
Crushing Field (the AoE immobilize) is nice to keep stunned foes from wandering off.
Empathy... pretty much most of it's fairly useful actually.
Heal Other and Healing Aura, as I've mentioned, are for fixing up the damage that leaks through all your other measures. First you should plug up the holes if possible.
Clear Mind keeps other squishies going in the face of mezzes. Melee characters usually don't need it, but there're exceptions even to that (extremely heavy mezzing, or protection holes such as a lack of fear/confuse protection).
Resurrect is good for those inevitable 'oopsie' moment and a must have for concept reasons anyway.
Fortitude lessens the chances of those hits even getting through as well as giving nice accuracy+damage bonuses to the receiver.
Regeneration Aura gives your team massive regeneration temporarily.
Recovery Aura's less important but still good for helping teammates with extremely endurance-intensive powerset combos.
Adrenaline Boost turns a single person into a regenerating energizer bunny with insane recharge.
Someone benefiting from Fortitude, Regeneration Aura, Recovery Aura, and Adrenaline Boost will be a killing (or debuffing/controlling) machine you'll rarely have to heal.
Absorb Pain... not so necessary but fitting with the whole martyr thing Jesus has going.
Clear Mind and Resurrect can generally be pushed off until a bit later, but they're good to have.
In general, squishies will benefit the most from your buffs. But really, just buff whoever needs it (i.e. anyone whose red or blue bars has a habit of dropping low).
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I really don't understand all the Jesus jokes, and healing in this game doesn't gather you aggro. |
Originally Posted by DocDominion
Hey there, I have a level 30 or so Gravity/Empathy healer aptly modeled after Jesus XD and of course, I want him to be a healer. (No, he can't cure your blindness.)
A question I had was how effective a Grav/Emp build could even possibly be for team healing, as I want to make him more of an AoE healer as opposed to a single target healer. Also, what are some good builds for this kind of thing, if any. |
I think Grav/Emp is a viable build. As with many Grav builds, in a team situation you might have to lean heavily on your secondary.
If you want to focus on your secondary, you can take the single target and AoE hold, wormhole, and singularity. The immobs are useful, but optional.
Controller /Emp and defender /Emp are comparable, although the defense values on fortitude are smaller for a controller. You will find this difference noticeable if you fight higher cons.
You should slot both your AoE heal and your single target heal. Your AoE heal is for yourself, for low hp toons that may be around you in aura range, and if your single target heal is not enough. Your single target heal is mostly for high hp toons (tankers, scrappers), squishies taking too much damage, squishies you cannot reach in time. You will not be able to keep up with a tanker taking heavy damage with only the aura, and if AoEs are raining down on him, you should not run in with your aura either. It'd only kill you.
Absorb pain is mostly useful in the low levels, and in the very high levels. It is not mandatory. You can use it with impunity if you have regen aura on you, otherwise be careful because you can't heal yourself when you use it.
Fortitude is a must-have. Slot it with recharge and defense, and try to keep it on as many people as possible. In general, if I see a tank is sturdy enough to not need it, I put Fort someone else. If the tank is not sturdy enough, one fort is usually enough to bring him up to general self-sufficiency. If someone is getting aggro and damaged, put it on them, as a pre-emptive. If you see someone has a particularly aggressive playstyle, same.
The two auras are good too. Regen aura actually does the job of healing aura. Personally I don't see the point of telling everyone to gather for RA. I just fire them off to catch as many people as possible. It can turn the tide of a difficult battle.
AB is a "Godmode" power. In normal team situations I'll usually put it on the AoE blaster (or AoE scrapper). Unless the tanker needs it to survive, in which case it goes on the tank. But from what I see fortitude on the tanker is more important, because most tankers already have some defenses to stack on.
"Honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonesty." -- Plato
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Rebtlbrain is correct jesus is emp/AR everyone knows that
If you want to just heal and don't do anything else, at least roll a mastermind and keep pets on aggro while they play more smart then your brain could...
Pure healers in this game sucks, if you want to be a pure healer, go play WoW!!
Hopefully you'll be kicked of the good teams, because they really don't need you...
and yes, Jesus is Emp/AR... not grav... see? you don't even know the basics...
WARNING!
The post above was made by a brutally honest person. It may contain sarcasm, dark humour, offensive language and typos! Don't lose your time trying to correct my spelling, english is not even my primary language...
My first guide, i15 plant/thorn dominator! Check it. NOW!
Okay, this thread definately got about 1000x more helpful.
First and foremost, when I started my first Jesus toon, he WAS an Assault Rifle build, his catchphrase was "Crucify THIS!" and I thought it was hilarious. So all these pictures and such of Jesus wielding an AR/MG is really cracking me up.
So, fine, I can't be a primary healer and I can't be an AoE healer, that's been explained. But I think Freem hit the nail on the head the most, because I was wondering, well if I can't be a healer, why even OFFER emp as a secondary power? I like how he said that you're going to have to rely on it as a secondary in lots of situations, but I'd like to maybe at least be really good at maybe ONE heal so that if the time comes where I do have to use it, I'll be able to save more lives than Jes- oh, wait.
Okay, so can somebody provide a build in which I am a powerful grav controller as WELL as at least a half/decent empathy healer? I mean sorry but this build seems really dumb since my primary is only for phasing people out and my secondary is really only for healing and one of the two is supposedly stupid to even try to spec out in.
(And who in the Lord's name is giving me bad rep? I'm just asking questions here, I thought it was all in the fun of the game :P Sorry if my Jesus character has offended anyone, but I've seen ALOT more offensive builds lol)
How bad really IS gravity? There's no way it's un-saveable, right?
The knock I've always read about Gravity is the lack of solid AoE controls. I'm leveling a Grav/Rad currently, and so far it seems pretty fun to me. I guess it would depend on what you want to be able to do with that part of the character that would dictate whether it's 'bad' or not.