Quote:
| , but I'd like to maybe at least be really good at maybe ONE heal so that if the time comes where I do have to use it, I'll be able to save more lives than Jes- oh, wait. |
Well you don't really build around one power in CoH/V though. You want to make one power uber special? 6 slot it...done.Thats three under-thirty levels or two over-thirty levels. (although 6 slotting one attribute only can be wasteful, but you can also go for healing set bonuses, but that will only get you so far with a build) Now what? Make your character well balanced. As others have said or implied, take what you know about MMO heal classes and toss them out the window. While there are times people need to be healed, in Coh/v mitigation trumps the green numbers. Proof? Watch a group of Fire/Rad controllers waste away the game at the highest difficulty and probably never fire off a heal. It's just not like other games. Now a good emp is always welcome, especially low game, but once the build matures your buffs are what teams are after.
Now about the whole not understanding why people are offended.............come on now. My guess is you knew it was a provocative concept, so you shouldn't be surprised when someone takes offense. Never assume that others appreciate or share your sense of humor or your level of tolerance of dark/controversial subject matter.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Quote:
I've been running this build on some teams. I've only got him to level 12, but so far he's running real nice. I always build out the concept first then follow it like a recipe so each time I level, I follow my layout. Since I started reading this thread, I thought Id check out the build and see if it is easily done. Low level play is ok at solo. I have left the difficulty setting at the default. As I teamed, Ive found that healing is so second nature with this build. I targeted the main tank / scrapper (some teams had no tank) and I just kept them going. Granted I only had a couple of powers from my primary and secondary, but Healing Aura and Heal Others can really do the job even when we have no defender on the team. I ran a few duos with a scrapper and that worked real nice too. On one mission, we were up against a few +2 Lost Bosses and that was hard keeping it together. I really wish I had Clear Mind on that one. But until level 16, well just have to break free a lot. Anyway, take a look at the build and see what you think and if it will help you out or not. Again, I found it an easy balance so far. |
Originally Posted by DocDominion
Okay, so can somebody provide a build in which I am a powerful grav controller as WELL as at least a half/decent empathy healer? I mean sorry but this build seems really dumb since my primary is only for phasing people out and my secondary is really only for healing and one of the two is supposedly stupid to even try to spec out in.
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Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Gravity Empathy: Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Gravity Control
Secondary Power Set: Empathy
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Ancillary Pool: Fire Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Crush -- Acc-I(A), Immob-I(3), Dmg-I(43)
Level 1: Healing Aura -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(5), Heal-I(5), RechRdx-I(11), EndRdx-I(17)
Level 2: Gravity Distortion -- Acc-I(A), Hold-I(3), RechRdx-I(11), Dmg-I(15), Dmg-I(19), Dmg-I(19)
Level 4: Heal Other -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(7), Heal-I(9), RechRdx-I(13), EndRdx-I(17)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(7), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 8: Crushing Field -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(9), Immob-I(15), Immob-I(43)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 12: Resurrect -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 14: Super Speed -- EndRdx-I(A), Run-I(40)
Level 16: Clear Mind -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Fortitude -- RechRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(23), ToHit-I(23)
Level 24: Absorb Pain -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(25), Heal-I(25), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 26: Wormhole -- Acc-I(A), RechRdx-I(27), RechRdx-I(27), Dsrnt-I(34), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 28: Recovery Aura -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(29), RechRdx-I(29), EndMod-I(36), EndMod-I(37)
Level 30: Lift -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(31), Dmg-I(31), Dmg-I(34), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 32: Singularity -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(33), Dmg-I(33), Dmg-I(33), Hold-I(34)
Level 35: Regeneration Aura -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36), RechRdx-I(36), Heal-I(37), Heal-I(37)
Level 38: Adrenalin Boost -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39), RechRdx-I(39), EndMod-I(39), Heal-I(40)
Level 41: Fire Ball -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(42), Dmg-I(42), Dmg-I(42), RechRdx-I(46), Range-I(46)
Level 44: Fire Shield -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(45), ResDam-I(45), ResDam-I(45)
Level 47: Consume -- Acc-I(A), RechRdx-I(48), RechRdx-I(48), RechRdx-I(48), EndMod-I(50), EndMod-I(50)
Level 49: Rise of the Phoenix -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Dmg-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Containment
Demonfest - 50 - Demon / Thermal Mastermind
Covered Shadow - 50 - Dark Melee / Shield Scrapper
Alright guys, thanks for all the help, but due to the fact that 5 or 6 people sent me bad rep just for asking questions has pressured me to stop posting in this thread. Also, pricks like Panikaze, who shouldn't even be on the forums if they're just going to insult people, need to back off and just let me ask my questions.
Anyways, to those of you that DID help (and that was many of you, you know who you are), thanks a ton, I think I have enough information now to at least spec out my controller right and not try to be much of a healer.
And Doc, you may just find that controlling is a WHOLE lotta fun!
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Quote:
Rep is meaningless. Just turn the junk off if it bothers you.|
Originally Posted by DocDominion
Alright guys, thanks for all the help, but due to the fact that 5 or 6 people sent me bad rep just for asking questions has pressured me to stop posting in this thread. Also, pricks like Panikaze, who shouldn't even be on the forums if they're just going to insult people, need to back off and just let me ask my questions.
Anyways, to those of you that DID help (and that was many of you, you know who you are), thanks a ton, I think I have enough information now to at least spec out my controller right and not try to be much of a healer. |
As for grav/emp, neither are among my favorite sets for controls. (I find gravity very lacking and enjoy more aggressive secondaries like storm and rad.) I think you might find mind control more suited to the role you want to play. It generates less aggro than other sets which would let you heal in relative safety. Illusion can also let you work without taking much aggro.
But if you stay with grav the I offer these suggestions:
- Skip Dimension Shift. I noticed you mentioned it. It is marginally useful alone and as a panic button. In most cases it will be an irritation to your team.
- Shoot for recharge bonuses from sets. As has been mentioned, it'll help the empathy side of things and also bring up your few strong controls faster.
- Be patient. Gravity's best powers come late in the set (at 26 and 32). You may have to team a lot to make it there.
Quote:
This concept seems to trip up a lot of new players to CoH, doesn't it?|
Originally Posted by Thirty_Seven
Did it occur to you that you are getting those replies because what you are trying to do is both not possible (AoE-focused Healer) and ridiculous (having a controller focus only on healing).
As has been pointed out, Healing is of limited utility... whereas Control and Buff/Debuff are of incredible utility. In fact, if those last three things get done properly, one would (nearly) invalidate a need to do the first thing! |
DocDominion, to make a long story short, CoH is very different from other MMO's in that a pure healer isn't really necessary. (i.e., you don't really need one person standing in the back spamming heals all day long to keep everyone alive). That being said, healing does have its place and can be a very useful thing to have around. But making healing the single focus of your character is going to in the long term prove very boring for you.
For example, my first (and so far only) level 50 hero is a Tank. He is softcapped for defense, which means that he rarely takes damage from anything short of an AV beating on him. He can literally charge into a very large spawn of mobs and sometimes take no damage at all from their initial strike. A purely healing-focused character on a team with him would get very, very bored.
In CoH, the role of "healer" most often takes the form of buffs for your teammates, debuffs on the mobs and (in the case of Controllers) CC'ing mobs so they can't do anything at all. Healing does play a part in that, but it to be honest it is not the most important part.
I know all the above might sound very strange to someone coming to CoH from an MMO with a more traditional setup for team support, but trust me, it's true. If you focus only on healing you are cheating yourself out of what could have been a much more entertaining experience.
Quote:
Nor even possible, I might add. Even the most heal oriented sets only have a couple heals in them. |
Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
This concept seems to trip up a lot of new players to CoH, doesn't it?
DocDominion, to make a long story short, CoH is very different from other MMO's in that a pure healer isn't really necessary. (i.e., you don't really need one person standing in the back spamming heals all day long to keep everyone alive). |
And yet, I just got off a team with a Pain Corrupter who had 1 primary power, a bunch of power pools, and the full Pain Domination set.
In other words, you have to seriously go out of your way getting fluff powers just to try to make this work, because the game was never intended for you to make a character that way. Healing is mostly to negate downtime in this game and to supplement other forms of mitigation. The high burst damage in the game makes healing the lowest, weakest form of mitigation. Healing, as a reactive form of mitigation, is most commonly used when the fight has exceeded damage and control. You rarely get slowly killed in this game; life is usually binary........and often times the best way to save a teammate is to control or kill the aggro that they've (usually) poorly acquired.
Which, of course, makes controllers wonderful teammates to have around! No one can get you out of the mess you stepped in faster than a controller can!
You can try this build. It is team-oriented but capable of soloing.
Up to level 20, you will mainly heal and single target control. You need to figure out what to hold selectively in teams.
(NB Can slot gravity distortion 1acc 2hold 2rech until you get the last slot in, because single target holds have good enough acc already. I'm too lazy to remake)
In the 20s we slot up your AOE cc powers. Put up fortitude on as many people as possible and use your AOE ccs to cut down on damage. You should need to do less and less healing.
In the 30s we round off your controller by putting more slots in your AoE ccs and buffs.
By 41, you are ready to pick up epics and/or fill in on the leadership pool.
You can move the slots around and slot for more damage if you want to be more offense oriented.
"Honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonesty." -- Plato
Playing Gods (51106) - Heroic Lvl 5-20
What Rough Beast (255143) - Villainous Lvl 40-50
Quote:
Sorry for being brutally honest.|
Originally Posted by DocDominion
Also, pricks like Panikaze, who shouldn't even be on the forums if they're just going to insult people, need to back off and just let me ask my questions.
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Just making the point, pure healers are not welcome in CoX.
WARNING!
The post above was made by a brutally honest person. It may contain sarcasm, dark humour, offensive language and typos! Don't lose your time trying to correct my spelling, english is not even my primary language...
My first guide, i15 plant/thorn dominator! Check it. NOW!
I went like this with gravity/thermal:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1,601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Level 50 Science Controller
Primary Power Set: Gravity Control
Secondary Power Set: Thermal Radiation
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Teleportation
Ancillary Pool: Fire Mastery
Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Crush
Level 1: Warmth
Level 2: Gravity Distortion
Level 4: Thermal Shield
Level 6: Propel
Level 8: Hover
Level 10: Swift
Level 12: Plasma Shield
Level 14: Health
Level 16: Power of the Phoenix
Level 18: Gravity Distortion Field
Level 20: Stamina
Level 22: Fly
Level 24: Cauterize
Level 26: Thaw
Level 28: Forge
Level 30: Recall Friend
Level 32: Singularity
Level 35: Heat Exhaustion
Level 38: Melt Armor
Level 41: Fire Ball
Level 44: Fire Shield
Level 47: Rise of the Phoenix
Level 49: Consume
This is my support build based on thermal, and I have even skipped Wormhole so I wouldn't annoy anyone. With Empathy you can skip Absorb pain and take Wormhole instead.
My second build (solo one) is pure gravity with only shields (for Singy) and debuffs from thermal. 
"If you want to win you must not lose."
"Easiest way to turn defeat into a victory is to put on the enemy's uniform"
"Better strategic retreat than dishonorable defeat"
- Il Numero Uno (The Number One)
Quote:
In the event you even could concentrate on healing as a controller (ignoring previous well thought out arguments), Mind would be my choice because of its aggro free nature.
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Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
Also, given the Big J's way of converting people to his cause, I'd almost say Mind is a better thematic choice (2 confuse powers). But that's just IMO. |
Why is everyone against Absorb Pain? I have it on my empath and love it! Yeah you can't heal yourself while you throw it off but it saves people's lives. In my opinion I think that is one of the major key powers of an Empathy.
If your excuse is that you die every time you throw it off that's a load of crap lol. I manage to throw it off and survive just fine. The more healers we have being selfish and trying to keep themselves alive instead of the team the cruddier our teams are going to get.
For EX: When someone runs in without the team being ready absorb pain can really help you keep that person alive while the tank runs in and grabs the aggro off the dude.
I'm just saying that people shouldn't be so against Absorb Pain, it can become a very useful power if used right. I mean you would take unstoppable on your invul. scrapper correct? well when that power runs out you have NO end. or hp. That is much worse than Absorb pain if you ask me lol.
Pinnacle - The Drunk Server!
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
Quote:
I don't have an invul scrapper, but I don't take the tier 9 armor powers (on my scrappers) due to the crash, personally. I would rather build a survivable character without a crash.|
Originally Posted by Desitre
I'm just saying that people shouldn't be so against Absorb Pain, it can become a very useful power if used right. I mean you would take unstoppable on your invul. scrapper correct? well when that power runs out you have NO end. or hp. That is much worse than Absorb pain if you ask me lol.
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Nothing against Absorb Pain, although I have skipped it as well.
Of the two suggested builds, Freem's is pretty close to what I would look at. I've never met a Fortitude I didn't like, so having it up as often as possible is going to keep you from having to worry about the two most likely agro sources in the party. If you IO out some of those powers, you can get even more millage out of them. Having the AoE Hold and Worm hole up often will also be a major mitigator of incoming damage, but those I find are often situational. You should be able to manage with single target holds, Fortitude, and an occasional heal.
The AoE immobilize is going to be very useful or not useful at all depending on your timing and who you have on your team. I used it every pull but that was with a storm controller, and I paired it with Freezing Rain and Snowstorm. Since you are Emp you are going to find it much more situational.
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I am not against Absorb Pain. It has its uses. I only found it useful in certain times of my toon's career compared to the other powers that could be picked.|
Originally Posted by Desitre
Why is everyone against Absorb Pain? I have it on my empath and love it! Yeah you can't heal yourself while you throw it off but it saves people's lives. In my opinion I think that is one of the major key powers of an Empathy.
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I had it up to around level 20. Then I specced it out. Specced it back in at level 50 to pump hitpoints into the tanker if Recluse was ripping holes in him or something.
If I have to use AP repeatedly (which I have done before) then the team is better off recruiting another controller or defender, or they need to lower their difficulty.
Quote:
| For EX: When someone runs in without the team being ready absorb pain can really help you keep that person alive while the tank runs in and grabs the aggro off the dude. |
The person who runs in may be perfectly capable of handling themselves, and don't need saving.
If the person needs saving, I am not under obligation to save them. I may be an /Emp controller, but I'm not Jesus Christ.
Anyway. If I am a Grav controller and want to save the person, that is when I throw Gravity Distortion Field, or summon Singularity in the middle of all the mobs, bouncing them off the person.
Quote:
| I'm just saying that people shouldn't be so against Absorb Pain, it can become a very useful power if used right. I mean you would take unstoppable on your invul. scrapper correct? well when that power runs out you have NO end. or hp. That is much worse than Absorb pain if you ask me lol. |
A more comparable power would be the old Moment of Glory. How many Regen scrappers use the old Moment of Glory with any regularity?
I'd say "take (old) Moment of Glory if you have space in your build, use it with care and in the right situations, but it's not a Key Power".
"Honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonesty." -- Plato
Playing Gods (51106) - Heroic Lvl 5-20
What Rough Beast (255143) - Villainous Lvl 40-50
Quote:
Totally signature worthy.
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Originally Posted by Freem
... I may be an /Emp controller, but I'm not Jesus Christ.
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Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
Quote:
It's not so much that I hate Absorb Pain as I think you really only need two out of the three heals in Empathy to function properly. Absorb Pain is, in my opinion, the weakest of the three (since it has the longest recharge time), so it tends to get dropped. I think a fair number of players feel the same way, so it tends to be skipped a lot.|
Originally Posted by Desitre
Why is everyone against Absorb Pain? I have it on my empath and love it! Yeah you can't heal yourself while you throw it off but it saves people's lives. In my opinion I think that is one of the major key powers of an Empathy.
If your excuse is that you die every time you throw it off that's a load of crap lol. I manage to throw it off and survive just fine. The more healers we have being selfish and trying to keep themselves alive instead of the team the cruddier our teams are going to get. For EX: When someone runs in without the team being ready absorb pain can really help you keep that person alive while the tank runs in and grabs the aggro off the dude. I'm just saying that people shouldn't be so against Absorb Pain, it can become a very useful power if used right. I mean you would take unstoppable on your invul. scrapper correct? well when that power runs out you have NO end. or hp. That is much worse than Absorb pain if you ask me lol. |
Of course, the fact that it IS the least popular of the three powers is a perfectly valid reason to take it.
To the OP: if I were making a character based on Jesus, I would probably make him Mind/Emp, as some people have suggested. Gravity would probably be my second choice, but I don't think it has as many thematic powers as Mind Control. I would make sure I took Clear Mind, Fortitude, and Resurrect as well as the heals, and the two Confusion powers in Mind Control. I would probably take Leadership and Presence as power pools.
Of course, there is the drawback that you won't be able resurrect yourself. Maybe a Martial Arts/Regen scrapper? It worked for Gandhi in Gandhi II
Quote:
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Originally Posted by EvilDeathBee
It's not so much that I hate Absorb Pain as I think you really only need two out of the three heals in Empathy to function properly. Absorb Pain is, in my opinion, the weakest of the three (since it has the longest recharge time), so it tends to get dropped. I think a fair number of players feel the same way, so it tends to be skipped a lot.
Of course, the fact that it IS the least popular of the three powers is a perfectly valid reason to take it. To the OP: if I were making a character based on Jesus, I would probably make him Mind/Emp, as some people have suggested. Gravity would probably be my second choice, but I don't think it has as many thematic powers as Mind Control. I would make sure I took Clear Mind, Fortitude, and Resurrect as well as the heals, and the two Confusion powers in Mind Control. I would probably take Leadership and Presence as power pools. Of course, there is the drawback that you won't be able resurrect yourself. Maybe a Martial Arts/Regen scrapper? It worked for Gandhi in Gandhi II |
actually if he took fire epic he could get rise of the phonix
Quote:
The build I'm working on has fire epic spec'ed in with rise at 50 (posted earlier). I figured it would be helpful. But looking at other builds, I think I need to work in recall friend so that once I do rez up, I can tp the others to me that need assistance and rezzing.
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Originally Posted by Lucky666
actually if he took fire epic he could get rise of the phonix
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Demonfest - 50 - Demon / Thermal Mastermind
Covered Shadow - 50 - Dark Melee / Shield Scrapper
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Desitre
Why is everyone against Absorb Pain? I have it on my empath and love it! Yeah you can't heal yourself while you throw it off but it saves people's lives. In my opinion I think that is one of the major key powers of an Empathy.
If your excuse is that you die every time you throw it off that's a load of crap lol. I manage to throw it off and survive just fine. The more healers we have being selfish and trying to keep themselves alive instead of the team the cruddier our teams are going to get. |
While the inability to be healed yourself while using it is a concern to me, my main reason for not having it is that I find it to be of limited utility. I did have it on an Empathy build a while back, but it rarely saw any use. If your team is taking so much damage that regular use of it is necessary to keep people alive, there are usually 2 reasons for it.
1)Your team is in over its head, and needs to dial difficulty down.
2)The example you gave in your post about overzealous players jumping into groups before the tank
IMO reason 1 is not a good reason to take it, as it just gives bad players more incentive to play poorly, because they think you can 'save' them, and reason 2 is no good because it's situational, and gives bad players incentive to keep playing poorly. If a player I'm teamed with makes a bad decision I'll help them if I can, but if they die, they die. Quick rez, on our way again, and perhaps they'll be more careful in the future. It's been said a million times before, I'm sure, but the presence of an Empathy in the group is not a good excuse for playing recklessly.
This is all my opinion, so take it as you will, but I don't see a need to take Absorb Pain. There are other powers I'd rather take that will get much more use.
Why are you getting a bad rep? Spoofing anyone's religious figure is going to anger some people . . . Just ask those folks in Norway who published the cartoon featuring Mohammed how well the Muslims are willing to take a joke. I'm amazed at how folks who ridicule Jesus would never ridicule other religious figures due to concern about reactions from other groups . . .
For a Gravity controller, the basics are: Gravity Distortion, Crushing Field, Gravity Distortion Field, Wormhole and Singularity. Most people take Crush, and then choose between Lift or Propel. Many team-oriented builds take Lift due to the long animation time of Propel. If you leave out both Propel (or Lift) and Dimension Shift, you should have room for a travel power, Fitness Pool and all but one of your secondary powers, and still be able to take four APP powers.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control