City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Mezz Protection for All!

AlienOne

By AlienOne,
Posted on: 2009-09-17 24:18 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
Wait, damage is a hard control? Doesn't that mean every Scrapper set has hard control then? Because no Scrapper set lacks in damage output.
Yes, damage is a hard control because a dead mob doesn't fight back - just like being held, stunned, etc. Only longer!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
Wait, damage is a hard control? Doesn't that mean every Scrapper set has hard control then? Because no Scrapper set lacks in damage output.
Scrappers cant match the shear awesomeness of a Fire/Fire blaster on a rampage

And yes, actually, the Scrappers main 'control' is killing stuff fast.
Death is the ultimate debuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
Wait, damage is a hard control? Doesn't that mean every Scrapper set has hard control then? Because no Scrapper set lacks in damage output.
Hard control ... FROM RANGE.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Hard control ... FROM RANGE.
My Shield Scrapper is pretty good at "hard controlling" enemies by one-shotting all minions when shield charging into unaggroed enemies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
My Shield Scrapper is pretty good at "hard controlling" enemies by one-shotting all minions when shield charging into unaggroed enemies.
Scrapperlock: Soooo doing it right
I am: of the approving

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PennyPA View Post
Ooooooh, but you do. It is called damage. I suggest you check out blaster powers. Did you know they have holds (ice/ice can have 3 between primary and secondary), disorients, KB, KD, sleep, stun? You are telling me those are not controls?

You picked a primary and secondary that has damage/DoT as its "controls". A fair trade.

I wonder what hard controls you would have had if you went fire/EM?

Edit: Keep going ClawsandEffect - agreeing with your posts.
A scrapper or brute has lots of damage also. That must = control. They must not need mez protection.That is using your own logic.

Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by hedgehog_NA View Post
A scrapper or brute has lots of damage also. That must = control. They must not need mez protection.That is using your own logic.

Sigh, that is not even close...

In short, you chose a primary and secondary that has damage as its way of controlling. This means you kill faster. The other blaster sets don't equal the damage output of fire therefore they are balanced by other means - stuns, KB, KD, etc.

Every AT has a sprectrum of powers. You picked an *extreme* in the blaster sets. Would you have asked what hard controls you have if you had an ice/ice blaster? Fire doesn't have the *traditional* controls like holds and so forth. It makes up elsewhere.

And yes, scrappers/brutes can control by damage in the same sense as a fire/fire blaster. But to say that blasters don't have hard controls when you pick the one exception is a not accurate. Using an example on the opposite end of the spectrum, it would be like me saying corruptors need buffs because my dark/therm (what I consider a weak toon) is hard to play solo. My ice/cold, fire/rad, and son/kin corruptors would love to see those buffs.

Edit:
Decided to add one more point that tanker/brutes/scrappers (even VEATs) can purposely take aggro via taunt/confront as part of their AT powers. So in order to make this viable to use and "protect the squishies" and peel off aggro, they need to be able to use it. If they are under status effects, then no taunt/confront, which could be team wipes.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by hedgehog_NA View Post
what hard control does my fir/fire blaster have. I missed that on the power selection page. Ring of fire is a immob, not a hold.
Why do you need hard control when you can still kill the mob WHILE MEZZED?

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Clouded View Post
Why do you need hard control when you can still kill the mob WHILE MEZZED?
/Slaps forehead! That too.

 

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Originally Posted by hedgehog_NA View Post
Power push is not 100%. It wasnt last night at least. And to be fair, I never intended to solo that emp, and didnt.
The only defender combination I could think of with no reliable hard control. Every other secondary has at least a stun in it somewhere. A lot of defender Primaries have control options as well.

So, one defender combo with no hard control, at least not until epics, at which time any combo can have a hard control option (Including Dominate, possibly the best single target hold in the game IMO)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hedgehog_NA View Post
what hard control does my fir/fire blaster have. I missed that on the power selection page. Ring of fire is a immob, not a hold.
Again, one of two combos with no hard control in the primary and secondary (the other is Fire/Devices) But, you get more damage to make up for the lack of control. And you get to keep attacking while mezzed.

Kranik soloed the ITF with a fire/fire blaster....I think I'll just let that sink in a little. Something no scrapper or brute has done*....was done by a fire/fire blaster.

(*to my knowledge at least)

Those two(or three) combos are the exception to the general rule of squishies having some sort of mezzing ability.

Three powerset combos out of the hundreds possible across 5 ATs not having something doesn't justify sweeping changes to all of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by hedgehog_NA View Post
what hard control does my fir/fire blaster have. I missed that on the power selection page. Ring of fire is a immob, not a hold.
Immob is a hard control. and, with proper tactical planning, you can remove an opponent from the battle for as long at the Immob lasts. Much like a hold, stun or sleep.

My Fire/Energy Blaster takes on +1 and +2 bosses easily without the need of Breakfrees. She also melts large groups of +1 minions before they can get off more than one shot.

There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"

 

Posted

Scrappers/Tankers/brutes/Stalkers:
All have one set of Melee attacks, and shields to counter being in melee.

Blasters:
All have ranged damage, and then MORE damage. To kill anything 'lucky' enough to get into melee range. Or other things in the case of /devices, but they all aid the killing fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Again, one of two combos with no hard control in the primary and secondary (the other is Fire/Devices) But, you get more damage to make up for the lack of control. And you get to keep attacking while mezzed.
/Devices has Taser. I find it useful, and I normally skip controls on my blasters (and that character is Nrg/Dev, he has Taser and Power Push and Caltrops and Web Grenade and can pull onto Trip Mines and a pet that draws aggro and both AoE KB powers, he kills slow for a blaster (but not slow), he needs the controls ).

If we do not include Power Push, Eng/Fire has no hard control. Does fear count as a hard control? If not, Fire/MM and Nrg/MM lack hard control.

Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
/Devices has Taser. I find it useful, and I normally skip controls on my blasters (and that character is Nrg/Dev, he has Taser and Power Push and Caltrops and Web Grenade and can pull onto Trip Mines and a pet that draws aggro and both AoE KB powers, he kills slow for a blaster (but not slow), he needs the controls ).

If we do not include Power Push, Eng/Fire has no hard control. Does fear count as a hard control? If not, Fire/MM and Nrg/MM lack hard control.
D'oh! Forgot about Taser.

Fear would fall into the same category of control that sleep does. As long as they don't take damage feared enemies won't do anything. Marked difference from early versions of fear powers when they would cause them to run for the hills.

Mental Manipulation has a confuse power in it as well, which is a hard control in that it prevents the enemy from attacking you. It's a crappy confuse power, and unreliable, but it IS there.

Energy/Fire would be the second with no hard control then. It also has pretty craptastic synergy. Knock them away from you and chase them to use your secondary....doesn't seem like it flows very well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
Does fear count as a hard control?
From my extensive experimentation and use of fear stacking with only the Presence Pool on my Kheldians, I've come to the following conclusions:
  1. Fear is a soft-control because it only stops enemies from attacking you as long as you don't attack them and the Fear hasn't broken off.

  2. Fearing a Boss with Invoke Panic + Intimidate can be very satisfying indeed, and can buy you enough time to decimate the enemies supporting the Boss, or lessens the number of attacks the Boss can retaliate with!

  3. For my TriFormPB, the Presence Pool can be an invaluable tool, but for my TriFormShade™ it's overkill.

  4. Both Invoke Panic and Intimidate do not require a lot of slots to be effective as long as you do not have to rely on them as your only means to mitigate damage.

  5. Having Invoke Panic on an Illusion Controller with a perma Spectral Terror (very easy to accomplish) means you should be able to fear an entire enemy group with two powers!

  6. Best thing about the Presence Pool, everyone can take it.
A lot of people completely ignore the Presence Pool when it comes to figuring out how to mitigate mezzes, but I've found my PB can fear a mezzing Q/V Boss faster than it can mezz me.

I wouldn't say it's a tool that completely neutralizes mezzers in combat, but it's a tool that helps quite a bit and keeps things still challenging but a bit easier to handle.

EDIT :: I also had to add this about hard controls... if you slot Chance for Hold in your fastest recharging blasts, you will be able to unreliably of course, hold Bosses. If you use this strategy with a low-mag melee Hold power on Bosses, your chances of holding them increase considerably. There are also other procs like that that may inflict more status effects. Using those procs can enhance a squishy character in ways that make soloing much easier for it, without throwing the challenge out the window.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Mental Manipulation has a confuse power in it as well, which is a hard control in that it prevents the enemy from attacking you. It's a crappy confuse power, and unreliable, but it IS there.
The way WoC works, I would never call it a hard control. Even though the confuse mechanic should be classified as a hard control, the mechanics of WoC disqualify it, IMO. For full disclosure, Psy Shockwave has a 25% chance to stun, as well.

Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
D'oh! Forgot about Taser.

Fear would fall into the same category of control that sleep does. As long as they don't take damage feared enemies won't do anything. Marked difference from early versions of fear powers when they would cause them to run for the hills.

Mental Manipulation has a confuse power in it as well, which is a hard control in that it prevents the enemy from attacking you. It's a crappy confuse power, and unreliable, but it IS there.

Energy/Fire would be the second with no hard control then. It also has pretty craptastic synergy. Knock them away from you and chase them to use your secondary....doesn't seem like it flows very well.
lol, my energy/fire blaster was my first toon to 50. After that I branched out and found out how they were supposed to work. Very long time ago and 1 of the few toons i wish I could respec out of the set.

Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running

I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!

You are in a maze of twisty little passages

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordXenite View Post

EDIT :: I also had to add this about hard controls... if you slot Chance for Hold in your fastest recharging blasts, you will be able to unreliably of course, hold Bosses. If you use this strategy with a low-mag melee Hold power on Bosses, your chances of holding them increase considerably. There are also other procs like that that may inflict more status effects. Using those procs can enhance a squishy character in ways that make soloing much easier for it, without throwing the challenge out the window.
This is so handy, and quite entertaining as well.

I have very few Proc's and as of yet zero purp's on my main but I do have Devastation: Chance for Hold slotted in Snap Shot and Pounding Slugfest - Disorient Bonus slotted in Air Superiority (all I can remember off the top of my head.)

And now with the 0-end cost of Brawl, I see another Devastation: Chance for Hold or a Kinetic Combat: Knockdown Bonus in her future.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordXenite View Post
  2. Fearing a Boss with Invoke Panic + Intimidate can be very satisfying indeed, and can buy you enough time to decimate the enemies supporting the Boss, or lessens the number of attacks the Boss can retaliate with!


I wouldn't say it's a tool that completely neutralizes mezzers in combat, but it's a tool that helps quite a bit and keeps things still challenging but a bit easier to handle.
Thanks, you've inspired me to make a build for VestigeOne using Invoke Panic extensively (coupled with Inky Aspect) as an "experimental" playstyle vs. high-mez enemies.



"Alien"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades View Post
The way you play changes your IO slotting..


76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
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Posted

Fear is nice in that, if you get mezzed after applying it, then things aren't going to take advantage of you while you're mezzed. When you stop attacking, so do they. It stops chain-mezzes and whatnot.

Alas, even with Fearsome Stare, I cannot terrorize everything. I'm certain I spent more time mezzed than not in the last LGTF I was on. I really don't know how I manage to gain the ire of so many things.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by MrQuizzles View Post
Fear is nice in that, if you get mezzed after applying it, then things aren't going to take advantage of you while you're mezzed. When you stop attacking, so do they. It stops chain-mezzes and whatnot.

Alas, even with Fearsome Stare, I cannot terrorize everything. I'm certain I spent more time mezzed than not in the last LGTF I was on. I really don't know how I manage to gain the ire of so many things.
Best thing: Getting put to sleep on a blaster
Using single target attacks: No one will attack you
Defiance V2: Ftw

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

So... things kinda went on a tangent and we learned a few things.

Some people really hate the idea of adding light mezz protection to the Archetypes that don't have it.

  1. It would make those ATs too 'good' as they are balanced around not having mezz protection (so why are scrappers considered the solo AT of such repute?)
  2. All ATs that don't have mezz protection have tools to counter mobs that do have mezz (arguable and of limited ability at times. I find slows on bosses just about useless these days at times.)
  3. A largely ignored point was that fairly low mezz protection (2-3mag) is easy even for minions to overcome solo, much less on large teams.
I got a lot of replies on the idea of 'no one' having mezz protection solo. After all, if a Defender with poor tools is expected to be able to solo that content, pretty much everyone should be able to do without mezz protection too!
  1. Got a lot of responses that 'melée archetypes' really need that to solo, not all of them have counter-mezz abilities.
  2. Anyone can solo without mezz protection, so? People can solo anything with enough aggravation.
Strangely, the suggestion of removing mezz protection solo so that everyone is similarly challenged really upset some people. I mean, after all, if it's a good challenge for one archetype, shouldn't it be a good challenge for them all?

So, really, I haven't seen one good reason not to add weighted mezz protection. Some Archetypes would get less (not not none) while others would be unchanged.
  1. It would allow the developers to more easily balance long duration stacking mezz effects without crippling all the currently non-mezz archetypes.
  2. It would make things less tedious for the non-melée archetypes to solo, though probably not quite to level of doom that some people posit.

I apologize for not replying earlier, but I was not feeling well yesterday and I just got home today and felt up enough to be a bit more coherent.

Still here, even after all this time!

 

Posted

Ultimately, mez as it is in this game is a problematic mechanic: you are either mezzed or you are not. In general, you are either mezz-able or are not. Even mag 2-3 protection would be enough for 99% of gameplay such that most players, regardless of AT would not be mezzed. But drop that to mag 1 and it's a different story.

Looking at even the Arachnos Soldier AT and Wolf Spider Armour's mag 2 protection, under most situations, there's little to worry about. Bane Armour's mag 4 (Crab gets more in Fortification) is enough such that they can run into melee and not worry about being mezzed in almost all situations.

Finding a better mechanic is the hard part. There are better mechanics to be found, but either come in the form of quick time events like in CO, which has its own issues and might not be a good fit in this game's gameplay, or in forms that may not be easy on the servers or may be difficult for players to understand.

No matter what, any such change would be a huge fundamental modification to current gameplay, so probably out of the question for something that is not, technically, broken.

The only mid-point to be found right now is to give non-melee characters much higher mez resistance base values than we generally see. This is still problematic in that, in some cases, it can make mez almost a non-factor for non-offensive toggle characters, where offensive toggle characters benefit somewhat less, as the powers that were previously protecting them (generally by debuffing enemies) get toggle dropped.

 

Posted

Quote:
Strangely, the suggestion of removing mezz protection solo so that everyone is similarly challenged really upset some people. I mean, after all, if it's a good challenge for one archetype, shouldn't it be a good challenge for them all?
Okay, I'll bite on this.

No one has mez protection solo.

2 different characters, an Illusion/Kinetics controller and a WP/Fire tank.

No mez protection isn't a big deal for the controller, it has the ability to choose when and where they fight. Phantom Army keeps agro off of it, Phantasm will draw agro, Spectral Terror will keep the enemies from doing much of anything. If played halfway competently the controller in this case will never even be targeted by an enemy, much less mezzed. Most controllers can do similar things, I chose Illusion as an extreme example.

Okay, now the tank.

Willpower requires a lot of mobs in melee range for max survivability. Fire melee doesn't have a single mez power in it. The tanks only way of fighting is to wade right in and start swinging, with a whole group of foes surrounding them. The tank is probably getting hit with just about every mez being thrown at him, he has no way of preventing that. Without his mez protection he will get mezzed almost immediately and Rise to the Challenge will drop completely, and all his defense and resistance toggles will suppress. End result, dead tank, probably rather quickly.

In the same map, fighting the same foes.

Lack of mez protection doesn't hurt the Illusion controller at all, since nothing has changed for it. The tank, however, cannot function because it is being hit with every mez being thrown at it with no way of preventing it.

An Ill/Rad controller can solo the STF, with no mez protection at all. There are no scrappers I am aware of that can do it. Not even amongst our elite forum scrappers.

The ITF was soloed by a fire/fire blaster. No mez protection, and little or no mitigation. The number of scrappers that have done the same can be counted on one hand. In fact, the only one I know of for sure was an Invuln.

Okay, another example: your average Fire/Kin controller. If mezzers are so difficult for them to deal with, why are they so popular for farming? If they get mezzed so often that it impedes their playability, why is everone playing one?

A well built Rad/Sonic defender can solo a GM, there are people with video proof of it. A well built Ice/Cold corruptor can do the same. Lack of mez protection doesn't seem to be impeding them that much.

So, tell me, if these characters can pull off these feats that scrappers can't do, all without mez protection, do they really need it?

A Katana/Regen scrapper has no way whatsoever of preventing a ranged mez from hitting them. Without their mez protection they will probably be mezzed the second a mob spots them.

Most squishy characters can mez a mezzing foe from outside of it's agro range, whether it's a stun, a hold, a sleep doesn't matter, they can prevent their enemy from acting.

If you play intelligently, you will seldom get mezzed, no matter what AT you're playing as.

If your strategy is to run in mashing buttons, you will probably get mezzed quite a bit. And guess what? That's not a flaw in the game, that's a flaw in your playstyle.

Wanting the game changed because you refuse to adapt your playstyle to avoid or prevent mez is just...dumb. There are any number of people that can solo a squishy AT with no problem dealing with mezzes, why is it YOU have such difficulty with it?

Sorry, but it really sounds like you want the game to change for you, instead of the other way around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Okay, I'll bite on this.

No one has mez protection solo.

2 different characters, an Illusion/Kinetics controller and a WP/Fire tank.

No mez protection isn't a big deal for the controller, it has the ability to choose when and where they fight. Phantom Army keeps agro off of it, Phantasm will draw agro, Spectral Terror will keep the enemies from doing much of anything. If played halfway competently the controller in this case will never even be targeted by an enemy, much less mezzed. Most controllers can do similar things, I chose Illusion as an extreme example.
That's with perma-PA. Spectral terror is a fear, and like all fears, will allow counterattacks. MOST controllers don't have multiple taunting pets, and even MOST illusion controllers don't have perma-PA. An extreme example indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Okay, now the tank.

Willpower requires a lot of mobs in melee range for max survivability. Fire melee doesn't have a single mez power in it. The tanks only way of fighting is to wade right in and start swinging, with a whole group of foes surrounding them. The tank is probably getting hit with just about every mez being thrown at him, he has no way of preventing that. Without his mez protection he will get mezzed almost immediately and Rise to the Challenge will drop completely, and all his defense and resistance toggles will suppress. End result, dead tank, probably rather quickly.

In the same map, fighting the same foes.
Funnily enough, you're the one advocating changing playstyle instead of changing the game. In that situation, I'd do what I do on my defenders: find a team. Find a mission not quite so stupidly stacked with mez. In other words, I'd have to change the way I play to avoid the mez. Why is it different when it's a tanker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Lack of mez protection doesn't hurt the Illusion controller at all, since nothing has changed for it. The tank, however, cannot function because it is being hit with every mez being thrown at it with no way of preventing it.
Still an outlier, though. Change the example to a defender instead, see what happens. Again, there are outliers, but MOST defenders in the situation you describe for the tank, wind up with the same results: no mez protection means death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
An Ill/Rad controller can solo the STF, with no mez protection at all. There are no scrappers I am aware of that can do it. Not even amongst our elite forum scrappers.

The ITF was soloed by a fire/fire blaster. No mez protection, and little or no mitigation. The number of scrappers that have done the same can be counted on one hand. In fact, the only one I know of for sure was an Invuln.
That you know of. And you mention ONE blaster that did it, and multiple scrappers. Whether its invuln or DA, the fact remains that a blaster did it, a scrapper, and possibly multiple scrappers, have done it. I don't see hw this is really relavant

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Okay, another example: your average Fire/Kin controller. If mezzers are so difficult for them to deal with, why are they so popular for farming? If they get mezzed so often that it impedes their playability, why is everone playing one?
Because Fire/Kin farmers pick their maps, and farm them relentlessly. You dont' see fire/kins farming carnies, malta, Rikti... noticing a pattern here? They farm behemoths, Family, sometimes Council and sometimes Freaks: all mez-light groups, and ones where the mezzers CAN be picked out and locked down first. Farming is about minimal risk for maximum rewards, and mezzing enemies are too much of a hassle. Are you saying you've never noticed what maps fire/kins run, or did you forget to mention it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
A well built Rad/Sonic defender can solo a GM, there are people with video proof of it. A well built Ice/Cold corruptor can do the same. Lack of mez protection doesn't seem to be impeding them that much.
Stacked debuffs work wonders on a single target. If you build a character specifically for single-target damage, you can solo a Rikti Pylon too, something that folks without mez protection would find... challenging. Which GM's, by the way? Are you saying that "a well built rad/sonic can solo ANY GM" or are you saying that "if you build a rad/sonic specifically to take out a small number of easy Gm's, it can be done that way?" you're implying the first, and the second is the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
So, tell me, if these characters can pull off these feats that scrappers can't do, all without mez protection, do they really need it?
"If a scrapper can't do it, it SHOULD be too tough for any non-melee AT?" Seriously? What next, point out that squishies can deal with the Vanguard Sword while melees have trouble there? There SHOULD be things that some AT's can do that scrappers can't. that's the entire POINT of an AT system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
A Katana/Regen scrapper has no way whatsoever of preventing a ranged mez from hitting them. Without their mez protection they will probably be mezzed the second a mob spots them.

Most squishy characters can mez a mezzing foe from outside of it's agro range, whether it's a stun, a hold, a sleep doesn't matter, they can prevent their enemy from acting.
Most? so would you advocate mez protection for those who can't? i have an energy/energy blaster that has only unreliable knockback for personal mitigation. BTW, did you know Sappers resist energy damage? Or the fire/fire blasters that you mentioned earlier: they're in the same boat as your katana/regen scrapper, why can't they get protection?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
If you play intelligently, you will seldom get mezzed, no matter what AT you're playing as.

If your strategy is to run in mashing buttons, you will probably get mezzed quite a bit. And guess what? That's not a flaw in the game, that's a flaw in your playstyle.

Wanting the game changed because you refuse to adapt your playstyle to avoid or prevent mez is just...dumb. There are any number of people that can solo a squishy AT with no problem dealing with mezzes, why is it YOU have such difficulty with it?

Sorry, but it really sounds like you want the game to change for you, instead of the other way around.
And we end with an indirect insult to the intelligence of anyone who wants mez protection for squishies. And your conclusion that "some people can do it" is wonderful, excapt that earlier, you posted that essentially, some scrappers can solo the ITF, and at least one blaster can. Just because something is possible, does not mean that it should become the baseline for the entire game. or that it should remain that way.

119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.