Mezz Protection for All!

My examples were to point out things that have been done by ATs without mez protection that ATs WITH mez protection either can't do, or have extreme difficulty doing. I have yet to see a scrapper that can handle the things an Ill/Rad controller can handle, assuming unlimited funds and equal player skill. A tricked out Ill/Rad is more powerful than a tricked out scrapper, of any kind.

My example with the controller and the tank is to illustrate WHY melee ATs have mez protection and ranged ATs don't. A tank with no mez protection is a sitting duck, due to the very nature of it's powersets. Tanks cannot sit back and pick off targets from range, they MUST enter melee and agro things. They will be hit with multiple mezzes in doing so. If they had no mez protection they would be screwed.

The controller, even without perma PA, can choose when and how a fight is started. And if played well, will never give the enemy a chance to mez them. They can avoid mezzes all day long, while not impeding their progress much.

The only way a tank with no mez protection can avoid being mezzed is to do NOTHING.

Any controller and most defenders can stop the mez from ever happening in the first place. Tanks and scrappers cannot do that, so they get protection from it.

Okay, this is a question for those of you that really want mez protection for squishies:

What are you willing to give up to get it? You don't seriously expect to be given something like that without giving anything up do you?

ATs that can prevent mezzes from ever happening AND be protected from them? Not gonna happen.

Are you willing to give up your ability to mez THEM at range?

That's what the melee ATs sacrificed to get their protection. A few do have mezzing ability. No melee AT in the game gets the ability to mez from range until level 41 at the earliest.

So, how about it? Are the squishies willing to give up their mezzing ability in return for mez protection?

Didn't think so.

I only have a couple of things to say here:

First, I think it's stupid to compare a team support AT against a DPS/tank hybrid AT when it comes to soloing. Of course the AT with medium Defense and high Offense is going to beat a support AT at soloing. When it comes to teams, though, a Defender works as a force multiplier which means he is often much more useful than a Scrapper.

Second, by giving all ATs mez protection you would have some ridiculously overpowered heroes and villains running around. Say, give my Fire/EM Blaster mez protection and now I'm already better than most of my Scrappers. 35% S/L Def, 32% Ranged Def, insane damage and mez protection.

Third, the change advocates here are missing something. In CoH mezzes work in a 1/0 way. Either you are mezzed (1) or you are not (0) and there is no middle ground. If you gave everyone mag 2 mez protection you're making most of the mezzes NPCs have useless. If you really want to make a game as easy as this even easier I don't know what's wrong with you. We have inspirations pouring out of our ears (compare to potions in some games) and we don't even have to collect ingredients for them, neither do we have ultra-difficult fight mechanisms or anything. If you really want an easier game I suggest you go have a look at Minesweep.

Arguement: Circular
Suggestion: Give up until Red-name comments
Better yet: PM a Dev
Will wager: On the answer being: Emphatic No

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

No, but you shouldn't yell at him to shut up for those of us voicing disatisfaction with squishie mezzing.

Because there are a lot of people that find it patently unfair and unfun.

Say, they just added all those neat options for difficulty, how about one more setting: Solo, +3 Mag Protection; Solo, normal mezz protection; Solo, no Mezz protection.

That way the player can decide on the level of 'challenge' in that manner also.

Still here, even after all this time!

Personally, I never told anyone to shut up, nor would I. Everyone here has a right to express their opinion, just as anyone here can choose to ignore others comments about the tools within the game that allow a player to combat or mitigate quite a bit of the "unfairness", "faulty mechanics" in the game, and what the game doesn't have tactics will overcome.

I may not agree with someone's ideas, but I do not oppose their right to express them. I do oppose anyone advocating an

How about a "Not annoying to play" button?

Still here, even after all this time!

So, really what you want is for mez to be removed from all enemies.

Everything you have posted has that underlying theme to it.

You speak as if being mezzed ONCE kills an entire night of enjoyment. I don't know why you have this problem being mezzed all the time, but a large number of people do not have the same problem.

So, since what you really want is for mez to not exist, why don't you just come out and say so?

Yeah, being mezzed with the current toggle suppression I would call a bad design.

Not only can you not take any action other than to click on a break-free, your resistances or defense are reduced just when you need them to stay up.

Like I think I mentioned earlier in this thread, defensive toggles should not suppress at all. Offensive toggle should only suppress while mezzed.

Then a reduction (not a removal) of how often squishies can get mezzed and I think the game will actually be more fun.

Still here, even after all this time!

I'm snipping a lot out, just because this thread is starting to get a bit lengthy with all the back & forth quoting.

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Originally Posted by Lakanna it doesn't make them more powerful. It makes them more fun.

Whether they are 'fun' or 'not fun' is a pretty subjective determination. Obviously you find having to deal with status protection effects 'not fun'. I don't feel that way at all. I don't know if I would go so far as to say I find them 'fun', but I do enjoy the challenge they can provide.

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Look at the new defiance. On paper, it gives less of a bonus and less of a maximum bonus than the old defiance, and yet blasters are overwhelmingly in favor of it. Look at Dominators. Even with non-perma mez protection, they aren't overpowered. They're (now) a relatively well-balanced class.....snip..... Does the fact that certain Dominators have permanent mez protection even raise an eyebrow? No, not really. And Controllers with their epics. I don't know if Indomitable Will can be perma'd, but I'll wager that the difference between a controller who has full-time mez protection and not isn't that much in terms of real power. but enjoyment of those characters is huge. I took it on my illusion/emp, and being able to shrug off mezzes, even for a short time, really makes me enjoy that character a lot more.

Again, whether something is 'fun' or not is very subjective.

I don't think bringing up perma-dom builds really has any place in this discussion. What an AT can achieve while heavily IO'd out is pretty irrelevant here.

It seems, when we really drill down to it, the only potential issue here is with Defenders and possibly Corruptors. Perhaps the answer is to give them access to Indomitable Will. They would get an option to get status protection, it would not be perma, outside of heavily IO's recharge builds, and would require them to make some sacrifice by not taking one of the other pools at that level.

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Why is it an "I WIN!" button for squishies, but business as usual for melee types? Here's a question, how many enemies have melee-only mezzes? How many have ranged mezzes? How many can now, since the nice new "feature" of I15, get a single attack off no matter whether you catch them by surprise or not? And while melee types don't need to be annoyed by stuns and holds, what disappoints me isn't mez, but that some people insist that others must be annoyed by it, must deal with it, but others can't be bothered with it. If mez protection isn't overpowered on a claws/regen scrapper that can solo a Rikti Pylon or a SS/Stone tanker that can solo an entire map set for 8, how can you suggest it's OP for a defender, corruptor, or blaster, most of whom will never come CLOSE to that level?

We've been down this road before. Let me ask you a question: Have you actually tried running any missions on a scrapper with status protection turned off? If not, go ahead and try a few against mezzing opponents, then come back and tell me how that compares to running them on a squishy.

I ran my kat/regen on my little Malta Gunslinger mission and what I found was just about what I expected. I first ran the mission against Gunslinger bosses downgraded to LT's, and used superspeed so I had the initiative on every attack. I had a 100% success rate of being able to defeat them without using breakfrees. I then tried the same downgraded bosses without using SS and just normally approaching them. 100% success rate again without using breakfrees. However, even only going up against these as downgraded bosses, I came extremely close to being defeated several times and ended each encounter with seriously reduced health. On top of that, and this may be more of a perception issue than anything, it seemed to me that when engaged in melee, the Gunslingers were more likely to use normal attacks before their Liquid Nitrogen Rounds and Narcotic Darts, than they were when engaged from range.

Finally I went up against normal boss Gunslingers, using superspeed again to get the initiative. Here is where the difference became readily apparent. Every boss encounter required breakfree usage to avoid defeat. The only exceptions were if I was able to pop Instant Healing prior to being mezzed, I could sometimes make it through the encounter successfully with a bare sliver of health remaining without resorting to a breakfree. There were also several times where even Instant Healing could not save me from defeat.

Now, let's compare that to my doing the same thing on a blaster.

Blaster vs. downgraded bosses: 100% easy mode. All enemies defeated with little to no damage taken.

Blaster vs. normal bosses: 80% success rate without breakfrees. Challenging, but not impossible.

Scrapper vs. downgraded bosses: 100% success rate without using breakfrees. Significant damage taken on every encounter.

Scrapper vs. normal bosses: 0% success rate without using breakfrees, unless I was able to activate my most powerful healing ability prior to entering combat. Even then, success rate was 50/50, with barely any health remaining.

Just for amusement, I went ahead and ran my Fire/Energy blaster through the same mission with downgraded bosses. I didn't use any tactics at all and never used a single shred of mitigation. I simply ran up to every spawn and begin spamming primary attacks. Guess what? 100% success rate. No breakfrees needed. Burned down every mezzing opponent in seconds, including spawns with multiple mezzers.

BTW, if anyone wants to play around with it, the arc is up in the AE currently titled "Gunslinger Challenge". It's an extremely simple mission, on an indoor map, only requiring you to defeat all the boss groups.

Sounds like you were as 'challenged' as quite a few defender builds would be against Gunslinger bosses.

But don't you want that sort of challenge? I mean, *EVERYONE* wants challenge like that, right?

Still here, even after all this time!