Mezz Protection for All!

*slings mud at Claws*

Yep. Secondary effects for the various Immobilize powers are all over the place. There are some with -movement speed, some with -recharge, others with -fly or -end, and some with nothing at all.

Or that they're running some type of 'concept' build and skipped the very powers that would help them solo, or complaining that a team support defender doesn't solo as fast or as easy as a scrapper.

I agree.

Seriously? I've not see anything in this entire thread that deserves a -rep, most certainly not because someone has a different opinion.

I get the feeling that at time, those giving -rep aren't even taking part in any discussion, just lurking and get their panties in a bunch over someone elses comment.

Angel Red
"We're heroes. Fighting injustice is the thing we do." ~Rebel Scum

I'd disagree with that. But for some reason, everyone quotes me as giving enough mezz that it can not be overcome (when I've actually advocated far less.)

And... we get people ignoring many, many instances of people saying there is problems soloing normal content. Even downgraded bosses are still a PITA with their mezzing.

I got -repped a few times during this thread. For, among other things, being 'condescending' and 'missing the point'. Unsurprisingly, those throwing the -rep around had very little effect on my actual rep number.

Heh, way to turn the rhetoric to 11.

Having a finer gradation of mez protection would also mean that AV class mobs could at least have a better sense of being affected by mez as opposed to the hack job that is PTOD.

Also it could change the ridiculous manner of pvp mezzing now where all protection is changed to resists.

As well, it gives fighting chance to debuffer sets as opposed to instant toggle drops...like storm and rads.

If you look at the end game additions to CoX, it was pretty much the malta and rularuu and rikti that were mez happy, making it a pain to deal with if you didn't have mez protection. Of course you can counter that with break frees and acrobatics, but it is still a pain to deal with. Vanguard, well, I think they're overpowered for a group that is supposed to be attached to the UN (Oddly enough, I think controllers are the best AT in general to solo Vanguard).

If you look at Reichsmann in the 5th anniversary TF, having his stun whack scrappers and tankers just seems like an extreme escalation just to make sure the non mezzable ATs get their share of risk, which doesn't seem to make anyone happy. At that point, 2 BFs aren't enough to drop out of stun for a squishy.

The only deviation from that pattern of escalating incoming mez are the Cimeroans, which for the most part don't hit for mez but generally are mez resistant (EBs and Bosses).

As a open question, how do you think LGtf (rikti) compares to ITF (cims) in popularity, and if one is considered more fun than the other, why? Personally, I think it is because of the incoming mez that makes the LGtf less fun than the ITF, whether I'm on a squishy or not.

Another end game addition, the Rikti ship raid, has a plethora of 54s, including Rikti Magi, who can pretty much mez and kill any squishy within a hit or two. Adding a little bit of mez protection would allow for squishies to be a little bit more survivable in those circumstances.

Note that none of those are solo circumstances, and none of them are game breaking if you added mez protection or not. It's pretty much a QoL issue, like toggle drops, as far as I can see it. I never thought the OP was asking for mez protection akin to a tanker or scrapper, just something that makes game play a little smoother and less annoying.

It was back in the day when trollers ruled the land in i4. Then the great troller nerf hit in i5, and every single AoE pretty much got reduced to 1/4 in effectiveness. New AV resistances to debuffs also gutted many trollers.

Having a fully Hami'd out Ice/Storm with nearly 100% AoEs meant that it was either dumping fifty 50++ - 52+ Hamis in the trash bin or extracting them out 10 at a time during each respec, hence 5 respecs.

i'm sorry, but i haven't seen any more then 1 other person say they have problems soloing on a squishy with normal content. i have never had a problem soloing a squishy unless i was set to highest diff and wasn't paying attention and i can count the times on one hand. i have no problem running missions at any diff with almost any of my squishies. as many people here have stated also about themslelves. take some of the 6-8 greens and 4-5 reds or blues you have in your insp tray and make a break free or 2. or change your tactics/play style.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PumBumbler Another end game addition, the Rikti ship raid, has a plethora of 54s, including Rikti Magi, who can pretty much mez and kill any squishy within a hit or two. Adding a little bit of mez protection would allow for squishies to be a little bit more survivable in those circumstances.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PumBumbler Note that none of those are solo circumstances, and none of them are game breaking if you added mez protection or not. It's pretty much a QoL issue, like toggle drops, as far as I can see it. I never thought the OP was asking for mez protection akin to a tanker or scrapper, just something that makes game play a little smoother and less annoying.

I cannot see mez protection as QoL, no matter how low or high you request it to be. The fact of the matter is that squishies usually have their roles as either support or ranged-DPS. As such, for the enemy to present any challenge what-so-ever, the squishies must have their Achilles Heel, which in this game is mezzing, or else there's not much point to having enemies anyway, you may as well replace them with dummies!

It's been my experience with all content, especially including heavy mezzers, that zerging the opposition is supposed to work less efficiently than using tactics and working together as a team. Allowing squishies to avoid mezzing effects outside of the already available tools will, in my opinion, encourage more reckless gameplay encouraging the zerging mentality in a game that is already very casual-friendly.

In my opinion, that's not what this game needs. I think this game needs more variation in content, and more gameplay options, not more re-balancing activities and options that allow players to make the game less of a challenge on more characters than ever before!

Not all AoE, just three; Holds, Disorient, and Sleep. You know, the ones that would make this City of Statues. And Sleeps still last a long time. Relatively speaking.

Vanguard are meant to be fighting Rikti, with their state of the art armour and weakness to magic. Ergo, the weapons they use cut up armour like it's tinfoil (-res) and they use magic. It fits thematically, and makes for a change of pace gamewise.

Cimerorans, on the other frakking hand...! I mean, come on, these are people with standard swords and shields and spears. They are HORRIBLE to fight solo, I tellya. I still remember the nasty shock I got the first time I stunned the medic first, cut up the healer, was moving onto the last standard guy and the healer REZZED the damn engineer...I know they are meant to be mid-end game mobs, but I find them worse than Rikti. At least you expect high-tech aliens to pack a punch...

/rant

And Pum, Ouch. I know how much of a pain multiple respecs can be (My invul tank, and first character. Most bodged build ever, until recently)

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Yah, that was the official line, but there were a lot more powers that received the nerf bat along with the Holds, Disorients and sleeps.

Ice storm from controller epics is none of those, yet it received the same nerfing. Frostbite as well.

Kind of hard to prove either way since the old forums are ded, and most of those posts were zapped in the various house cleanings in that time anyhow.

I agree that they should be tough, but in a thematic game sense, as an arm of the U.N., their availability and extreme level of power kind of obviates the need for heroes. I've always wondered why there are no vanguard support soldiers during the zone invasions, given the fact that vanguard soldiers stand outside the zone entrances.

The devs were already content to remove any special aspects from pets (hello, worthless recharge slow resistance on the zombie MM pets since all pets are unaffected by recharge now), powersets, and even entire ATs (hello, DPA balancing and AT damage normalization in PvP). Carry those out to their logical extreme and you'll end up with a bunch of sets that do the exact same thing but only look different - and unfortunately that's where a lot of stuff seems to be headed.

@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

You can pretty much zerg *everything* in this game as it stands now. Even rikti ship raids. I've used my Ice/Storm to herd rikti on ship raids. Adding a touch of mez protection wouldn't make it easier, just a bit less annoying. Doing things wrong with a squishy wouldn't make me any less insta dead if mez protection was added or not.

I don't see how this bit about mez protection suddenly obviates the need for tactics and good teamwork/gameplay.

I don't have a problem with squishies playing support or ranged, but you imply that that is their only and intended function. Blappers and Offenders would argue otherwise. If you want players to be put into silos of functionality, you better be prepared to tell the scrankers as well.

Not all ATs and power sets have an Achilles Heel. There are quite a few viable builds that are quite self contained, which isn't necessarily the point of adding a point or two of mez protection.

You seem to take the idea that adding a low level of mez protection will somehow removing *all* challenge from the game. Although I agree with you that the game can be made (much) more challenging, and that there is a general trend to softening the game, I see low level mez as smoothing out some of the kinks in the game.

If we were to follow your idea that the game should be made more 'hardcore', the one shot rule should be restored, defensive toggle dropping should be taken back and hardcore debt caps put back in as well.

As well, content and gameplay options are always welcome, but powers are a different department, so implying that changing something like mez would take away from the game isn't necessarily going to compete for resources.

Ugh. Don't get me started on that. Powerset proliferation has been the hidden genericization of CoX.

U.N funded, I think. Even then, it doesn't matter too much. Game mechanics are the limit of that part of IC, as its called the Rikti WAR zone. They cant go out to support, and in fac have to leave it to the Heroes/Villains because they are at war. Constantly. Those tanks rolling around are sadly just for show, but only due to game and engine limitations.
-shrug-

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PumBumbler If we were to follow your idea that the game should be made more 'hardcore', the one shot rule should be restored, defensive toggle dropping should be taken back and hardcore debt caps put back in as well.

Not that I would object if toggle-dropping would return, or the debt-caps were brought back to what they were, but that is not what I want for the game. I definitely don't want a 'hardcore' game, but rather a more satisfying game. The difference is, that I get my satisfaction from having a proper challenge while fighting mobs and being mezzed is definitely a big part of that challenge at the moment.

You probably never followed my posts, but as my first response to how weak I felt on my 1st ever Warshade (pre-Nova even, so less than Lv6), I did not ask for mez protection, but instead for the Lv1/Lv2 single-target hold that Controllers can get.

I'm all for active ways to mitigate things rather than passive ways, so adding a set of passive mez protection tools to AT's that are, in my opinion, all about pro-active gameplay tactics, doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

If the game didn't have IO's that add mez-resistance (so that people spend less time being mezzed) and Break Free inspirations, and temp buffing stations, and power-sets that contain tools to grant mez protation and remove mez effects, I'd be less reluctant to this idea, but as things stand, I cannot wholeheartedly support this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PumBumbler As well, content and gameplay options are always welcome, but powers are a different department, so implying that changing something like mez would take away from the game isn't necessarily going to compete for resources.

I never implied that adding mez protection to squishies would take away development cycles, but rather that changing the mezzing system to work with different resolutions of mezz effects would. Despite that clarification, you do make an interesting point for discussion, because if the Devs did grant some added sort of passive mez protection to squishies, people who play squishies would then have two new things to argue about and attempt to push the Dev's buttons over: a) passive mez protection isn't enough; b) the game's too easy now, we need more challenges.

Here is a prime example of the Devs being damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Someone will always find the negative when there the intention of the change is meant to be positive.

Devs: You want rad/ blasters, /cold controllers, archery/ corrs, claws/ brutes? Here ya go!
Player: OMG, you're genericizing the powersets! And it's hidden!
Devs: lolwut?

I think Castle would agree with Pum. He has indicated feelings that seem along those lines. I do not get it at all, as I think proliferation does just the opposite. Rad Blast at one time was low damage, because it was on a low damage AT. Now you can Rad blast with low damage, medium damage, or high damage. You can get it with buff/debuff or gadgets or melee tricks.

To me, that looks like variety, not banality.

There are sets I like, on ATs I hate. I want to play Ninjitsu on a Scrapper. I don't like Stalkers.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

Aye. That is another sign that the game is not generic. Stalkers are different enough from scrappers are different enough from blasters are different enough from corruptors are different enough from MMs that sharing the same powersets does nothing but add variety and potential.

I'd love to play an Ice / Katana blaster.