Mezz Protection for All!
And yet people don't realize that some concepts do not stay good. When CoH came out, the idea of instanced missions was new. A lot of the content was supposed to be outdoors... yet players like playing missions.
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Just because it was 'originally designed' does not excuse re-looking at things and removing annoyances. |
We'll always have Paragon.
Yay! More over-the-top exaggeration! Please, for entertainment, explain how you cannot complete a solo heroic mission without using "a whole tray of breakfrees".
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None of these will require a "full tray of breakfrees" but none can be handled without at least half a dozen. Melee types don't need to use inspirations as a crutch simply to solo, nor to be able to do their job in a team setting. They actually get to use inspirations to increase effectiveness, not to attain basic effectiveness.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
I don't really think that mez protection should be distributed out to more ATs. I would, however, like it if Defenders and Corruptors got some kind of universal proactive or reactive mez solution across the AT. Debuffs can be good solutions, but a number of the more potent ones are toggle-based, and will shut off when that first mez lands, leaving you undefended.
Mez solutions that aren't mez protection include the free use of your tier 1 and 2 Primaries and tier 1 Secondary on a Blaster under new Defiance, Mastermind pets that continue to fight and draw aggro from the Mastermind when the Mastermind is mezzed, or even the simple mez them first option that all Controllers and Dominators have available among their Primary set powers.
Some Defenders and Corruptors have mezzes in their attack sets, but not all do. Likewise, some Defenders and Corruptors have have genuine mez protection or a click debuff that matters in their buff/debuff sets, but not all do. I'm not sure what form an AT-wide mez solution should take for either, but it would be a nice thing to have, since the other ATs have a solution to the problem mezzer among the foes that they are facing. It's far from being a deal-breaker, since I really like playing Defenders, even as they are, but it just doesn't feel right to me that those 2 ATs don't have some kind of built-in solution to mez that is available to all combos within the AT.
Just my take on this topic.
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
Mez Protection is already over-proliferated as it is. Eight ATs (Scrappers, Tankers, both Kheldans, Arachnos Soldiers, Arachnos Widows, Brutes, and Stalkers) have access to all-the-time Mez Protection regardless of powerset, with everyone but the Kheldons and Soldiers requiring only endurance and possibly some very minor recharge slotting to keep it running (Kheldans need either specific teammates or specific forms. Soldiers don't even require endurance- it's all built-in) Another AT, Dominators, has access to Mez protection at least every so often, and can be perma'd.
Of the remaining ATs, all of them but Blasters have at least one powerset that offers mez protection to themselves, and multiple powersets available to Controllers, Corruptors, Masterminds, and Defenders can grant at least limited mez protection to a teammate, as can a pool power (Stimulant) that's a prerec anyways for one of the most popular pool powers in the game anyways. The last AT, Blasters, have an inherent that lets them keep fighting in limited capacity while Mez'd, so they're not at the same mercy everyone else is while held or stunned.
As it is, enemy mez is a very minor threat in the game anymore unless your team is entirely squish-based, facing an enemy faction where mez stacking is an issue (read: Tsoo or Malta) or facing an EB/AV that has a mez that cheats the system and just cuts through mez protection like butter (Ghost Widow.) Throwing mez protection to the few guys who still lack it built-in would make status induction so pointless that enemy mobs may as well have them removed and their other powers rebalanced to take advantage of it. And heck, one FF or Sonic player and mez is mostly a non-factor regardless of team makeup anyways, as can any powerset with a Clear Mind clone and a player dedicated to either keeping it up or really good at reacting to mez icons on the player bar.
As for soloing, I can't think of anything except boss-level enemies who are a serious issue with mezing. Damage classes can BU/Aim/whatever to murder a particularly nasty status inducer in an alpha of glory, and control classes can just mez them first. That leaves Defenders, which is the one time where I admit mez becomes an issue, especially for buff-oriented ones like Empathy, but most buff sets aren't particularly solo-friendly to begin with.
Meeh, whatcha gonna do?
I've been advocating lowering it to a much less annoying amount. Short term click buffs suck. I get yelled at constantly that I'm not speed boosting people. I'd trade recharge enhancements on those powers for duration increasers in a heart-beat just so I'd be clicking less often. But the developers only feel that mezzing should get that bonus. Though I wonder how hard a 'buff duration increase' enhancement would be to code? I play (almost exclusively these days) scrappers and brutes because they don't get mezzed often. Why play a game (or even have part of a game) that is just annoying? |
Current Day Games: Stupidly easy
CoX comparison: Fairly well balanced
Balance: Much appreciated:
Easy Mode: Equals: High levels of fail
Mezzes: WAI
Archtypes: WAI
I get yelled at constantly that I'm not speed boosting people. |
Seriousness: Two occurances
Occurance One: They are whining
Fix: Seek help from /ignore button
Occurance Two: You fail at playing a Defender/Buffer
Fix: Engaging Humour output: L34rN 2 p14y
Seriousness: Re-enabled
Topic: Flawed
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Actually, he was saying that you must play those characters in one style. A particularly unheroic style, actually because at one point the developers decided that only melee archetypes 'should' get mezz protection of any sort.
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It's pretty clear your frustration is in a pretty specific set of circumstances (soloing, playing a susceptible-to-mez AT, fighting mez-heavy groups generally found in the end-game, not wanting to use Break Frees liberally). I tend to be proactive in problem-solving, treating those circumstances as a puzzle to be solved, not an insurmountable hurdle that demand the circumstances need to be changed, thus my recommendation to you to do the same (play the strengths, mitigate the weaknesses with the tools you have).
I'm sorry that you feel like I'm telling you that you don't know how to play the game. Not my intention at all, but obviously I'm not able to prevent you from hearing that, despite contradicting that impression at several points. Maybe, rather than focusing on my one statement, you can solicit the experiences of several other solo Defender players and how they successfully tackle the same problems, and take your advice there. Personally, I think it'd be awesome to turn the problem into a success story, i.e. "here's how I built my Defender to solo Malta / CoS."
Easy mode that Tankers, Scrappers, Brutes and Stalkers already have. You can't forget that part.
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ummmm, mez isn't an issue for any of the squishes I have played up to 50. I must be missing something. Those squishes usually have plenty of mitigation to deal with mez prior to being mezzed (and in some specific cases, WHILE MEZZED) that those ATs you mentioned DON'T without their mez prot.
Also of all the squishes to request mez prot, blasters MOST DEFINETLY don't need it, since mez has been a joke ever since defiance for them. They can still blast WHILE mezzed.
I agree the problem is the mobs that have minions and lts that can chain. Simple solution: reduce the chain mezzing ability of the lts and minions in those mobs: Malta, Carnies, and Tsoo and KoA to a limited degree.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Just in case anyone decides to skim, here is my agreement with this solution, once again:
I agree the problem is the mobs that have minions and lts that can chain. Simple solution: reduce the chain mezzing ability of the lts and minions in those mobs: Malta, Carnies, and Tsoo and KoA to a limited degree.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Especially when the end boss in a "defeat all" is a DRM, |
with an Illusionist in her group. |
Or try some Malta, where nearly every spawn has at least one critter that can throw a mez. Rikti have a ton of stuns that can make life miserable, and same problem as with carnies: their bosses, even downgraded to Lt's, often spawn with a second mezzer in the group. |
None of these will require a "full tray of breakfrees" but none can be handled without at least half a dozen. |
Melee types don't need to use inspirations as a crutch simply to solo, nor to be able to do their job in a team setting. They actually get to use inspirations to increase effectiveness, not to attain basic effectiveness. |
I think you should try to gain more reading comprehension then.
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
solo, +0x1? Go deal with Carnies for a while. Especially when the end boss in a "defeat all" is a DRM, with an Illusionist in her group. Or try some Malta, where nearly every spawn has at least one critter that can throw a mez. Rikti have a ton of stuns that can make life miserable, and same problem as with carnies: their bosses, even downgraded to Lt's, often spawn with a second mezzer in the group.
None of these will require a "full tray of breakfrees" but none can be handled without at least half a dozen. Melee types don't need to use inspirations as a crutch simply to solo, nor to be able to do their job in a team setting. They actually get to use inspirations to increase effectiveness, not to attain basic effectiveness. |
I started on 0/x1, with bosses enabled. Then went to 0/x2 with bosses because on x1 I was only getting one boss per mission. I then went to 0/x3, no bosses which still spawned the boss mezzers but at LT level.
At boss level I defeated:
2 Death Mages
7 Dark Ring Mistresses
4 Master Illusionists
Along with a large number of standard Illusionist LT's.
I used no breakfrees for any of these with one exception. When I went to 0/x2 I had a mission that spawned a Dark Ring Mistress and a Master Illusionist together next to the mission objective, and they spawned at +1 level, conning red to me. Needless to say, this was a challenge. I did have to use a few BF's here (but not a whole tray, nor even half a tray ), and I also suffered my only defeats here as well. Of course, two bosses will never spawn together on base difficulty settings, so I really don't consider this a 'fair' fight exactly.
When I went to 0/x3 with bosses spawning as LT's it became almost trivially easy. I defeated 3 Master Illusionists at LT level with no effort at all.
Now, I consider myself a fairly average player. I was able to overcome every one of these challenges using the powers available to my character with one exception that required inspirations. On base difficulty settings a player will not be facing anything but LT level enemies. In that case, every one of those that mez can be 100% mitigated by the use of a single control power. If facing boss level mezzers, they can be taken out of the fight by stacking two control powers on them as well.
As far as Malta go, I didn't run any missions against them here, but I did solo Crimson's World Wide Red arc on this same blaster in the past. Can Malta be a challenge? Yes. Are they an insurmountable challenge? No. Maybe the devs should take a look at Malta. Then again, maybe it is not such a bad thing having a group that can be difficult and might require a player to grab some team mates for help.
Easy mode that Tankers, Scrappers, Brutes and Stalkers already have. You can't forget that part.
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Scrappers: Scrapperloooooo-:Exclamation: Oh, woops, the Boss
Brutes: Smarsh!: Exclamation: Blues plz!
Stalkers: Stabby stabby - ganked
All Archetypes: Have weaknesses
Should not: be any other way.
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Realisation: Easy Mode request
Current Day Games: Stupidly easy CoX comparison: Fairly well balanced Balance: Much appreciated: Easy Mode: Equals: High levels of fail |
Wait...
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
solo, +0x1? Go deal with Carnies for a while. Especially when the end boss in a "defeat all" is a DRM, with an Illusionist in her group.
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Or try some Malta, where nearly every spawn has at least one critter that can throw a mez. |
Rikti have a ton of stuns that can make life miserable, and same problem as with carnies: their bosses, even downgraded to Lt's, often spawn with a second mezzer in the group. |
None of these will require a "full tray of breakfrees" but none can be handled without at least half a dozen. Melee types don't need to use inspirations as a crutch simply to solo, nor to be able to do their job in a team setting. They actually get to use inspirations to increase effectiveness, not to attain basic effectiveness. |
Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Eh, I can kinda agree on some things. As far as giving squishies mez protection for pve content though? Nah.
How about mez resistance? Not anything too outrageous, squishies still get mezzed but not for 10 minutes after being hit with some mob's ZOMG mezzes. This would still keep squishies mezzable, but not OP'd, and still allow some AT's to solo a bit more without having to get a crutch (especially at early levels).
Ah, so what we should be doing is advocating that Scrappers, Tankers, Brutes and Stalkers all only have Mezz Protection on teams!
Perfect!
Still here, even after all this time!
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Now isn't that strange. I bring up the idea that because anyone can solo without mezz protection, that no one solo needs to have mezz protection.
That way everyone can be 'challenged' quite equally (I'd call it annoyed the same way.)
An nary a reply or even an attempt to say 'it is not true.'
Still here, even after all this time!
There is no right or wrong (other than exploits) way to play this game. There is just easier or more challenging. Sometimes, character concepts dictate a more challenging method of play. I have several like that.
Again, I'll reiterate---
I am not advocating removing mezz from the game. I am advocating lessening its affect on on players so that it does not affect them as greatly.
If I wanted to say 'please remove mezzing from the game' I would say that.
What I'm really saying is that 'squishies' should only be getting mezzed less. Perhaps only one-quarter of the time. Definitely less than one-third.
The simplest way to do that is to give them minor mezz protection now that PvP balance is no longer an issue.
Or perhaps +300% mezz resistance (that would reduce all mezzing down to 1/4 of the time by default.)
Dying because I didn't go out and buy a whole tray of breakfrees to do my mission on herioc is (and you can quote me on this) "Not fun".
Still here, even after all this time!