Mezz Protection for All!
By
AlienOne,
Posted on: 2009-09-17 24:18 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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And hope you don't miss.|
Originally Posted by PennyPA
I am with Clouded here. Just why did you open with an immobilize that allows the mobs to still attack?
You have a snipe, Aim, and BU, well before Level 30 when Rikti spawn. I have a blaster to at 50 and take out the mezzer first with my most powerful ranged attacks then mop up minions afterwards. I would never use my Level 1 power on mezzers as an opener. |
Seems things got noisy while I was at work.
I do find it odd that people are still shouting/ranting that any level of mezz protection is basically god-mode, even though I know that low level (3-5pts) is not. It's nice, but 3pts can be overcome.
Playing my human-form Peacebringer on teams proved that to me. 1 to 2 controllers is crap. 3 is useful. 4+ is generally superfluous.
Still here, even after all this time!
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Okay, I miss. Big deal. I have a blaster at 50. I keep using my attacks. A blaster has an inherent that lets you. I have taken on mezzers in all kinds of forms before. And guess what...I dinged 50 still. |
Originally Posted by Futurias
And hope you don't miss.
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You are going to hit way more often than you miss - would you like to deny that?
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If you're playing a Human-only PB with more than one Controller, and you're getting mezzed, I dare say either you or the Controller aren't paying attention to what the other is doing. Cooperation is key in team-play, that's what I always thought...
Originally Posted by Futurias
Playing my human-form Peacebringer on teams proved that to me. 1 to 2 controllers is crap. 3 is useful. 4+ is generally superfluous.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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If you miss on your alpha-strike, your mezzer is not dead... and you just got yourself 'statue-itis' and soon to be 'dead-itis.'|
Originally Posted by PennyPA
Okay, I miss. Big deal. I have a blaster at 50. I keep using my attacks. A blaster has an inherent that lets you. I have taken on mezzers in all kinds of forms before. And guess what...I dinged 50 still.
You are going to hit way more often than you miss - would you like to deny that? |
You go from 'top of my game' to ground-sucking PDQ.
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Originally Posted by LordXenite
If you're playing a Human-only PB with more than one Controller, and you're getting mezzed, I dare say either you or the Controller aren't paying attention to what the other is doing. Cooperation is key in team-play, that's what I always thought...
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Still here, even after all this time!
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If you think that low-grade mez protection is an "I win button" then you aren't going to understand. It isn't an "I win" for scrappers, it isn't an "I win" for tankers, it isn't an "I win" for VEATs, and it isn't an "I win" for defenders.|
Originally Posted by PennyPA
I can't but read this as only "I want an I win button".
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Understand now?
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Originally Posted by PennyPA
Of course the game has some challenge at the higher levels. That is by it's design, otherwise, we would be fighting Hellions all the way to 50. This is the "risk" for our "reward".
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Originally Posted by PennyPA
I have yet to hear anyone say "wow, I just can't defeat those minions." I will grant that an AV/EB or even a boss could be a pain to some ATs/powersets and need some help either from a temp like a Shivan or get a team together.
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Originally Posted by PennyPA
Yes, you will miss every so often and get in over your head and have a faceplant. The posters I have read in this thread all know that. Players have played every AT and powerset combo and know you will faceplant. But in the end, you will win the vast majority of times over the mobs in this game no matter what you play.
It's not that hard of a game. That "curbstomping" isn't that common if a player uses the tools that are available and takes a moment to plan. Only time I see it is when a player takes on way more they can handle (say using +4/+8 settings). If it is, I am suprised it hasn't been discovered by now. |
And without mez protection, you get annoyed. A lot. And it gets you defeated if you don't have the crutch the devs provided instead of actually fixing mez to make it less ridiculously broken (and yes, it's broken both ways - remember, nobody likes fighting statues, and nobody likes BEING statues.)
And edited to add: Thanks for the -rep and the absurd comment about mez protection being an "I win" button, to whomever anonymous sent it.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
People seem to forget that melee sets DO have holes in them anyway.
Fire, dark, hell SoA's have a freaking huge KB hole which is actually a huge problem at times. Ninjitsu on stalkers has a KB hole too, the list goes on.
Hell, Tanker sets still have the mez holes, especially Fire.
And you know why?
Because it gets made up for in other areas. The same as other ATs get it made up in other areas for having no mez shields. You change that, you effectively break the game. Because that would mean a whole game re-balance. If it was CoX 2, then by all means do so. Until that happens, I don't see that happening.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
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Well, this shows me you never played a blaster. Please don't say you have otherwise you would know you can still attack with DEFv2.0. Yes, even mezzed, I am still on top of my game and use the other tools in the game to win. If I, on the rare occassion, run into bad luck and die, then what? NOTHING. It's a game remember. |
Originally Posted by Futurias
If you miss on your alpha-strike, your mezzer is not dead... and you just got yourself 'statue-itis' and soon to be 'dead-itis.'
You go from 'top of my game' to ground-sucking PDQ. On a full team while I'm in melee? Pretty normal actually. No matter what Controllers think or wish, their days of solo locking down full teams is a mere memory. |
And again, please show me this missing business. If you are having issues, I suggest 3 Dam/3 Acc slotting, which leaves the 5% always a chance (that's 1 in 20).
Again, I have a number of so-called squishies that have no mezz protection and solo just fine "at the top of my game."
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I understand completely. |
Originally Posted by Lakanna
If you think that low-grade mez protection is an "I win button" then you aren't going to understand. It isn't an "I win" for scrappers, it isn't an "I win" for tankers, it isn't an "I win" for VEATs, and it isn't an "I win" for defenders.
Understand now? |
You just don't understand AT "roles". A tanker goes in and draws (keyword) aggro. Scrappers go into melee (keyword) range for damage output and even draw aggro via confront. Even VEATs have confront. Their "roles" are to ACTIVELY draw aggro from the rest of the team. They can't perform their roles while under status effect - that is the design of the game. Understand now? You mention frustration later, how about a tank that is permaheld each and every mob group in a mission. Yeah, real fun there.
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| Challenge is fun and good. Being unable to react to a situation because of a bad random roll is not. Imagine if melee characters had no immobilize protection. Not stuns and holds, just immobilize. Then imagine that the enemy AI was designed to immobilize and kite. Frustrating, huh? There's a difference between "challenging" and "cheap." |
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| Tsoo Ink men in a pack of 3? Even better, 2 ink men and a sorceror/spirit? Sappers? (remember when they weren't limited to 1 per spawn? Got changed because, surprise, people hated being out of END- unable to play their characters...) |
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Mostly agreed. The game isn't hard. It's even easier if you're playing an AT with defense, offense, and mez protection. Take any of those away, and it doesn't make things harder, just slows things down. Without defense, you're succeptible to being defeated a lot. Without offense, you advance glacially slow. And without mez protection, you get annoyed. A lot. And it gets you defeated if you don't have the crutch the devs provided instead of actually fixing mez to make it less ridiculously broken (and yes, it's broken both ways - remember, nobody likes fighting statues, and nobody likes BEING statues.) And edited to add: Thanks for the -rep and the absurd comment about mez protection being an "I win" button, to whomever anonymous sent it. |
This thread could use some levity. Anyone know any jokes?
How about this...
A piece of string walks into a bar.
The bartender says, "We don't serve you kind here."
And ejects him into the alley, into the garbage. This gives the string an idea.
He tosses himself around a couple more times and returns through the bar doors.
The bartender says, "Hey, aren't you that piece of string I just threw out?"
String: "No, you are mistaken...I'm a Frayed Knot."
How many Mimbari does it take to change a light bulb ?
None, they always stop just before finishing the job.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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My Fire/Energy Blaster uses Super Speed+Aim+Buildup+Bonesmash+Energy Punch+Fireball to deal with bosses. If they're not dead by that time, then I use Fire blast and/or Flame breath. Of course, the boss is usually wandering around stunned after the first 2 attacks. Anything less than a boss is not a problem.|
Originally Posted by PennyPA
I am with Clouded here. Just why did you open with an immobilize that allows the mobs to still attack?
You have a snipe, Aim, and BU, well before Level 30 when Rikti spawn. I have a blaster to at 50 and take out the mezzer first with my most powerful ranged attacks then mop up minions afterwards. I would never use my Level 1 power on mezzers as an opener. |
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Originally Posted by Futurias
Playing my human-form Peacebringer on teams proved that to me. 1 to 2 controllers is crap. 3 is useful. 4+ is generally superfluous.
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Originally Posted by Futurias
On a full team while I'm in melee? Pretty normal actually. No matter what Controllers think or wish, their days of solo locking down full teams is a mere memory.
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Originally Posted by Futurias
If you miss on your alpha-strike, your mezzer is not dead... and you just got yourself 'statue-itis' and soon to be 'dead-itis.'
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Of course, now we're getting back to learning to play...
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
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I like...|
Originally Posted by Clouded
This thread could use some levity. Anyone know any jokes?
How about this... A piece of string walks into a bar. The bartender says, "We don't serve you kind here." And ejects him into the alley, into the garbage. This gives the string an idea. He tosses himself around a couple more times and returns through the bar doors. The bartender says, "Hey, aren't you that piece of string I just threw out?" String: "No, you are mistaken...I'm a Frayed Knot." |
A dyslexic man walked into a bra.
Or! how about...
Two antenna met on a roof, fell in love and got married. The wedding was ok, but the reception was excellent.
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Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
How many Mimbari does it take to change a light bulb ?
None, they always stop just before finishing the job. |
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
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How can a list of active ways of mitigating mezz possibly be misleading. | Mezz Protection for All! 10-09-2009 12:31 PM Misleading |
Its not like I haven't used almost all of them myself, oh wait...
Active mitigation works, if you are willing to use it.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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I have a level 50 Psi/Psi blaster that I just leveled up about 4 months ago, thanks.
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Originally Posted by PennyPA
Well, this shows me you never played a blaster. Please don't say you have otherwise you would know you can still attack with DEFv2.0. Yes, even mezzed, I am still on top of my game and use the other tools in the game to win. If I, on the rare occassion, run into bad luck and die, then what? NOTHING. It's a game remember.
And again, please show me this missing business. If you are having issues, I suggest 3 Dam/3 Acc slotting, which leaves the 5% always a chance (that's 1 in 20). Again, I have a number of so-called squishies that have no mezz protection and solo just fine "at the top of my game." |
Still here, even after all this time!
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you do realize that break frees can be used even while mezzed don't you? and you can change 3 of the same inspirations into a break free while mezzed. |
Originally Posted by B_L_Angel
No its lose sooner or later and no amount of skill changes that. It doesn't even take very much mez, just enough to drop your auras or prevent you from using an inspiration.
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now for this:
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| Imagine if melee characters had no immobilize protection. Not stuns and holds, just immobilize. Then imagine that the enemy AI was designed to immobilize and kite. Frustrating, huh? |
why does everyone seem to think that break frees either aren't exsistant or won't do anything?
As a slight aside my fire brute has zero immobilization protection (no CJ, no Burn).
Break Free covers his needs (also nifty for when facing Fake Nems etc with large Mag knockback). He has 3 points from a kinetic crash set.
He never took any power for immob protection all the way from 1 to 50, and is probably my top played redside 50 right now.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Break Frees one hole is KB. Sadly.|
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
As a slight aside my fire brute has zero immobilization protection (no CJ, no Burn).
Break Free covers his needs (also nifty for when facing Fake Nems etc with large Mag knockback). He has 3 points from a kinetic crash set. He never took any power for immob protection all the way from 1 to 50, and is probably my top played redside 50 right now. |
Trust me, I know this from playing my Crab Spider on a team in Mako's Patron arc. Y'know that room, the one FILLED with tornado's? With wide area KB/KU?
Man, the team learned some colourful language that day...
There are other examples, and mostly on melee characters, oddly enough. My DB/DA Brute, fighting Sigil with her stupid mag energy melee attacks. And more recently a Ballista. My SoAs all had problems, until they got the KB res slot.
See, it's not just Squishies who have problems. But hey, maybe most players don't whine about it so much, and just get on with the game?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Break Free: Resist Effects
Frees you from many sleep, hold, immobilization, disorient, fear, confuse, and knockback effects and boosts your resistance to repel, taunt, and placate effects for 30 seconds. This inspiration can be used even while under such effects.
-10 Magnitude protection against Hold, Sleep, Stun, and Immobilize; -5 Magnitude protection against Knockback, Knockup, Fear, and Confuse; 50% resistance to Taunt and Placate; 25% resistance to Repel
Emerge: Resist Effects
Frees you from many sleep, hold, immobilization, disorient, fear, confuse, and knockback effects and boosts your resistance to repel, taunt, and placate effects for 60 seconds. This inspiration can be used even while under such effects.
-15 Magnitude protection against Hold, Sleep, Stun, Immobilize, Fear, and Confuse; -7.5 Magnitude protection against Knockback and Knockup; 50% resistance to Taunt, Placate, and Repel
Escape: Resist Effects
Frees you from many sleep, hold, immobilization, disorient, fear, confuse, and knockback effects and boosts your resistance to repel, taunt, and placate effects for 90 seconds. This inspiration can be used even while under such effects.
-20 Magnitude protection against Hold, Sleep, Stun, Immobilize, Fear, and Confuse; -10 Magnitude protection against Knockback and Knockup; 100% resistance to Repel; 50% resistance to Taunt and Placate
Knockback protection was added to break frees a long time ago, though it is at a lower mag than the other effects
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Those are a bit of an aberration. They caused merry hell for my friend's /Elec brute, even with Grounded. Their knockback mag is really high, so you're not going to see the effects of a break free's protection.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Trust me, I know this from playing my Crab Spider on a team in Mako's Patron arc. Y'know that room, the one FILLED with tornado's? With wide area KB/KU?
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We'll always have Paragon.
Aha, I stand corrected. Good to know =] Thanks for that, you two.
I find it amusing that it 'frees you' from KB effects, though. Technically impossible. Still, I'll be fore-armed when fighting Sigil and peeps like her in future.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Very hard for anyone to perform their role under status effect|
Originally Posted by PennyPA
I understand completely.
You just don't understand AT "roles". A tanker goes in and draws (keyword) aggro. Scrappers go into melee (keyword) range for damage output and even draw aggro via confront. Even VEATs have confront. Their "roles" are to ACTIVELY draw aggro from the rest of the team. They can't perform their roles while under status effect - that is the design of the game. Understand now? You mention frustration later, how about a tank that is permaheld each and every mob group in a mission. Yeah, real fun there. |
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| Well, this shows me you never played a blaster. Please don't say you have otherwise you would know you can still attack with DEFv2.0. Yes, even mezzed, I am still on top of my game and use the other tools in the game to win. If I, on the rare occassion, run into bad luck and die, then what? NOTHING. It's a game remember |
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| Catwhoorg: Mezz Protection for All! 10-09-2009 12:31 PM Misleading |
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| SHARKER QUINT:you do realize that break frees can be used even while mezzed don't you? and you can change 3 of the same inspirations into a break free while mezzed. |
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Actually, I found the situation Futurias presented to be indicative only of someone who made bad decisions while playing a blaster. Hell, soon I'm going to do Rularru without mez protection, because so far I've had no problem with 3 minion or 1 lieutenant 1 minion spaws at +2.
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Originally Posted by B_L_Angel
Very hard for anyone to perform their role under status effect
The situation Futurias portrays of playing a blaster is closer to the reality of playing a blaster than the one you present. Before you go and tell me I don't know how to play a blaster It might be an idea for you to ask around. As to running into bad luck and dieing its not the dieing its unpleasant way you die from mezzes |
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
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What bad decisions would that be ? I ask because I prefer to know just what I am replying to before I do so. Its so much nicer to have specific points to respond to rather than trying to hit vague clouds of allegations with pillows of generalities.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning
Actually, I found the situation Futurias presented to be indicative only of someone who made bad decisions while playing a blaster. Hell, soon I'm going to do Rularru without mez protection, because so far I've had no problem with 3 minion or 1 lieutenant 1 minion spaws at +2.
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When you do the Rularu please post your death rate, also please post your time. What you consider fine may not be what other people consider fine.
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Well, my first 2 are done.|
Originally Posted by B_L_Angel
What bad decisions would that be ? I ask because I prefer to know just what I am replying to before I do so. Its so much nicer to have specific points to respond to rather than trying to hit vague clouds of allegations with pillows of generalities.
When you do the Rularu please post your death rate, also please post your time. What you consider fine may not be what other people consider fine. |
SR scrapper - Fully IO'd, soft capped, 4+ end/sec, 17 or so HP/sec, no deaths, came close eight or nine times, especially against overloards. I didn't time it precisely. But I had to free 8, and I did it in about 10 minutes.
My energy/electric got a kill all on a much smaller map, and despite them being hold resistant did about the same, coming close to death but never actually dying, despite the kill all and the smaller map, I did it in about 5 minutes while occasionally sending tells to a friend.
Edit: Just for the record, my SR scrapper is fully IO'd, and my Blaster is frankenslotted and in some powers just has SO's, so her lesser performance is pretty much to be expected. Like I said, this is a bad test, with my scrapper coming out looking better than she should look and my squishies coming out looking worse than they could look if they were fully IO'd out.
Again, both, no deaths.
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
as far as the blaster, my fire fire come up on a chief mentalist and 2 minions. I put ring of fire on chief. he laughs at pitiful damage and mezzes me. i have 2 light weight attacks while the other 2 render me down to mulch. wow. How does ring of fire prevent him from mezzing again?
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA