Still relatively new, would like some clarification
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2009-09-12 13:41 in Player Questions
Each proc is specific the the attack its attached to.
*scratches head* I'm not sure I really understand that statement. I suppose an example would help out some. Here's one from me.
Typhoon's Edge is a PBAoE.
I would have(as an example, mind you)
-> Scirocco's Dervish: Chance for Damage(Lethal)
-> Obliteration: Chance for Smashing Damage
-> Eradication: Chance for Energy Damage
Let's say I swing once. Is there a chance that each enhancement listed can fire on any single target with said swing? Basically he gets hit by the normal attack, and 3 proc effects blast him at the same time.
Yes, you could (in theory) get all three procs on the same target when that power hits
Icelock - Ice/Storm Controller
Command Bot 1 - Bot/Traps MM
Every proc checks independently of the others. They don't override each other, and they don't assist each other (as far as a chance to happen.)
Quote:
as I understand it, yes.
|
Originally Posted by Ichaerus
Let's say I swing once. Is there a chance that each enhancement listed can fire on any single target with said swing?
|
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
As I understand it, each proc is a percentage chance. And the rolls are made independantly - if you had three procs with a 10% chance to fire, each one will fire (on average) once every ten attacks. (For AoEs, I believe most actually roll when they hit a target, but I could be mistaken.) In any case, it *is* possible for all of them to fire at once. I don't have time for all the math involved, but if you had three procs, any combination of them has a chance to occur. (No proc, at least one proc, any two procs, all three procs.)
However, since most procs fire less than once every three attacks, you'd be losing damage compared to simply slotting the set pieces that boost accuracy, damage, and recharge. From playing around with Mids Hero Builder, adding a proc to an attack effectively adds the equivalent of about 14 damage to each attack. (If the proc added 140 damage, but only fires on average once every ten attacks, 140 / 10 = 14.) If the attack does any real damage to begin with (ie, we're not talking about Gale or similar attacks) then it doesn't take much effort to find an IO that will add more damage to each attack than a proc.
Personally, I take procs to finish getting the bonuses for a set, or in a few cases where the effect is useful when combined with powers I already have. (I'll take sets with a Chance for Hold on my controllers, because adding even a short hold to an attack can be useful for dealing with a Boss or Elite Boss.)
Quote:
Yeah, ummm, this statement makes absolutely no sense.|
Originally Posted by Cthulhufan
Each proc is specific the the attack its attached to.
|
But to answer your question, yes you can have 3 different procs in a power, and there is a chance that all 3 will go off at the same time. I do this with my Earth/Storm controller with 2-3 procs in a couple powers and the extra damage "can be" very noticeable. I'd recommend it for your brute. Heck, why not copy him over to the Test server and give it a shot before you commit on Live. Procs are great in AOE powers.
Quote:
As others have stated; you could (based on the 'roll') have al three or any combination fire off, but honestly doing unenhanced damage with a power with a 20% (or much less) chance of another type of damage is pretty unappealing. With standard IO's at lvl50 you could be doing 40% (or thereabouts) additional damage with each hit.
|
Originally Posted by Ichaerus
*scratches head* I'm not sure I really understand that statement. I suppose an example would help out some. Here's one from me.
Typhoon's Edge is a PBAoE. I would have(as an example, mind you) -> Scirocco's Dervish: Chance for Damage(Lethal) -> Obliteration: Chance for Smashing Damage -> Eradication: Chance for Energy Damage Let's say I swing once. Is there a chance that each enhancement listed can fire on any single target with said swing? Basically he gets hit by the normal attack, and 3 proc effects blast him at the same time. |
Ninus Lvl 50 Bots/Dark/SM Mastermind Badges: 1384 @Ninus on Global
Put an Ebil MasterMind in the Obal Office: It wont be the first time
Campaigning for Global Global Ignore Champion since 2009!
Quote:
Ok, what I think is being said here is that procs will only have a chance to fire when the power they are slotted into is used.
|
Originally Posted by Cthulhufan
Each proc is specific the the attack its attached to.
|
Sometimes you get the bear; sometimes he get you, rips your head off, sucks out your eyes, pulls out your spleen, humps your leg and pees in your boots
I appreciate the insight you all have given me. Another question came up while i was going over the posts. Would it be more beneficial to slot the proc enhancements into someone who has a DoT aura?
Quote:
The OP has three spots left for enhancements. (For all the following percentages, these are pre-ED, and using level 50 enhancements.)|
Originally Posted by Ninus
As others have stated; you could (based on the 'roll') have al three or any combination fire off, but honestly doing unenhanced damage with a power with a 20% (or much less) chance of another type of damage is pretty unappealing. With standard IO's at lvl50 you could be doing 40% (or thereabouts) additional damage with each hit.
|
A generic acc IO and two generic dam IOs, that gives 42.4% acc and 84.8% dam.
Three level 50 acc/dam IOs would mean 79.5% accuracy and 79.5% damage.
Or you could do something like acc/dam dam/end dam/rech from a single set and get 79.5% dam, 26.5% acc, end and rech, plus two set bonuses.
Or an acc/dam and an acc/dam/rech from a single set and a generic DAM IO, and get 91.1% dam, 47.7% acc, and 21.2 rech, plus one set bonus.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
|
Quote:
If you're asking whether each tick of the DoT would have a chance to trigger the procs, then the answer is 'no'. (The procs will trigger once every 10 seconds in a toggle)|
Originally Posted by Ichaerus
Would it be more beneficial to slot the proc enhancements into someone who has a DoT aura?
|
If you're asking if it's a good idea, then the answer is most likely 'yes' (many damage auras do low damage compared to actual attacks, while the procs do a fixed amount of damage regardless of where you put them)
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween
As I understand it, each proc is a percentage chance. And the rolls are made independantly - if you had three procs with a 10% chance to fire, each one will fire (on average) once every ten attacks. (For AoEs, I believe most actually roll when they hit a target, but I could be mistaken.) In any case, it *is* possible for all of them to fire at once. I don't have time for all the math involved, but if you had three procs, any combination of them has a chance to occur. (No proc, at least one proc, any two procs, all three procs.)
However, since most procs fire less than once every three attacks, you'd be losing damage compared to simply slotting the set pieces that boost accuracy, damage, and recharge. From playing around with Mids Hero Builder, adding a proc to an attack effectively adds the equivalent of about 14 damage to each attack. (If the proc added 140 damage, but only fires on average once every ten attacks, 140 / 10 = 14.) If the attack does any real damage to begin with (ie, we're not talking about Gale or similar attacks) then it doesn't take much effort to find an IO that will add more damage to each attack than a proc. Personally, I take procs to finish getting the bonuses for a set, or in a few cases where the effect is useful when combined with powers I already have. (I'll take sets with a Chance for Hold on my controllers, because adding even a short hold to an attack can be useful for dealing with a Boss or Elite Boss.) |
Best answer I've seen in this thread.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween
As I understand it, each proc is a percentage chance. And the rolls are made independantly - if you had three procs with a 10% chance to fire, each one will fire (on average) once every ten attacks. (For AoEs, I believe most actually roll when they hit a target, but I could be mistaken.) In any case, it *is* possible for all of them to fire at once. I don't have time for all the math involved, but if you had three procs, any combination of them has a chance to occur. (No proc, at least one proc, any two procs, all three procs.)
However, since most procs fire less than once every three attacks, you'd be losing damage compared to simply slotting the set pieces that boost accuracy, damage, and recharge. From playing around with Mids Hero Builder, adding a proc to an attack effectively adds the equivalent of about 14 damage to each attack. (If the proc added 140 damage, but only fires on average once every ten attacks, 140 / 10 = 14.) If the attack does any real damage to begin with (ie, we're not talking about Gale or similar attacks) then it doesn't take much effort to find an IO that will add more damage to each attack than a proc. Personally, I take procs to finish getting the bonuses for a set, or in a few cases where the effect is useful when combined with powers I already have. (I'll take sets with a Chance for Hold on my controllers, because adding even a short hold to an attack can be useful for dealing with a Boss or Elite Boss.) |
Never seen a proc'd out claws scrapper eh? 2-3 acc/dmg HOs and 3-4 procs. It's damage will be insane.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
Quote:
For my single target chain |
Originally Posted by Sentry4
Never seen a proc'd out claws scrapper eh? 2-3 acc/dmg HOs and 3-4 procs. It's damage will be insane.
|
Strike ToD proc, Gladiators Strike Proc
Slash Lady Grey proc, Hecatomb Proc
Follow-up ToD Proc
Focus Explosve Strike Proc, Apoc Proc
Basically on average I get 1-2 procs per run through. (The Purples have a high proc chance for greater damage)
Also single target:
Air Superiority ToD proc, Gladiators Strike Proc
Spin, Eviscerate and Shockwave each have a proc or two as well.
Its similar to the old Dark Melee Buzzsaw build, but actually much easier to achieve
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Quote:
Not really. The proc chance is only checked when the attack hits. Not when the target takes damage tics, whether it's one or ten.|
Originally Posted by Ichaerus
I appreciate the insight you all have given me. Another question came up while i was going over the posts. Would it be more beneficial to slot the proc enhancements into someone who has a DoT aura?
|
However, certain powers can proc multiple times because they spawn a series of pseudo-pets and any procs check/roll every time a pet is spawned. Volcanic Gases from Earth Control is an example of this.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Quote:
Let's re-emphasize this part. I believe regular procs have a 10% chance to do additional Minor damage. The purples have a 33% chance to do additional MODERATE level damage.|
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
(The Purples have a high proc chance for greater damage)
|
This is relatively brutal. When I'm on the Positron TF, exemping really nerfs the enhancements and one of my attacks will hit for around 50 HP. If the proc fires, it adds about FORTY points of damage. (Yes, it shows up as a separate number over the head of the target - just like controllers Containment damage.)
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Quote:
A "DoT Aura" would be a damage aura if I'm not mistaken - a power like Lightning Field or Death Shroud - it's a toggle based on the player, and each tick of damage it sends out checks to see if it hits. Can't recall if these (like buff auras) check only 1 ever ten seconds or not, but when it checks it will be vs. each target individually.
|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Not really. The proc chance is only checked when the attack hits. Not when the target takes damage tics, whether it's one or ten.
However, certain powers can proc multiple times because they spawn a series of pseudo-pets and any procs check/roll every time a pet is spawned. Volcanic Gases from Earth Control is an example of this. |
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Quote:
Yes, toggles only check once per 10 seconds. This also applies to location-based summons, like rain powers.
|
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
A "DoT Aura" would be a damage aura if I'm not mistaken - a power like Lightning Field or Death Shroud - it's a toggle based on the player, and each tick of damage it sends out checks to see if it hits. Can't recall if these (like buff auras) check only 1 ever ten seconds or not, but when it checks it will be vs. each target individually.
|
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
Quote:
By the way, the term is "Frankenslot", of course derived from Frankenstein.
|
Originally Posted by Ichaerus
And would it be a bad idea to Frankenstein the enhancements that way in various attacks?
|
[SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow][U]Virtue Heroes (Serenity's Children):[/U] [B]@Eek a Mouse, The Devil's Mark, Outlaw Sniper, Gas-Soaked Rag Man, Amazon Prime, Friday's Child, Hot Blooded,[/B][B]Flower of the Moon[/B], [B]Rouge Demon Hunter[/B], Stimulated Emission, Animatronic Wench, [B]Lennie Small[/B]
[U]Virtue Villains (Serenity's Orphans):[/U][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow] [/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow] [B]Eek a Rat[/B], [B]Bomb Blondeshell[/B], Babe Brute, Jeanne Dark, Fallen Angle[/COLOR][/SIZE]
Quote:
Most (non-purple) damage procs are 15-20% chance, with 20% being far more common. In fact, I can't think of any damage procs with a 10% chance, and the only one with a 15% chance I can think of is Touch of Death. I believe all (non-purple) damage procs deal 71.8 damage. Purple damage procs are 33% for 107.1 damage. (Damage stats listed are for characters fighting as lv50)|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Let's re-emphasize this part. I believe regular procs have a 10% chance to do additional Minor damage. The purples have a 33% chance to do additional MODERATE level damage.
|
Ignoring ToD, that makes non-purple procs average to 14.36 damage per activation, and purple damage procs average to 35.343.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Quote:
....or have those three IOs match one of the proc IOs, and get three set bonuses. |
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
Or you could do something like acc/dam dam/end dam/rech from a single set and get 79.5% dam, 26.5% acc, end and rech, plus two set bonuses.
|
I had been tooling around w/ PBAoE abilities a bit lately on my DB Brute. Currently, I have all three PBAoEs with complete Scirocco's Dervish sets. However, I was contemplating something while I was at work. I want to have attacks that have a bunch of proccy effects, but I wasn't sure if it would work. For example, having an attack that has 3 different proccy damage enhancements to them, one for smashing, one for lethal, one for negative energy. Is there a chance that all 3 can proc off the same attack, or does one override the other two? And would it be a bad idea to Frankenstein the enhancements that way in various attacks?