City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

MA: I weep metaphorical tears of despair

3dent

By 3dent,
Posted on: 2009-04-10 24:12 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

For every person that hates MA, there will be someone who loves it.
And I would even risk saying that for every person who hates the 'Badgefarm lolz' missions, there will be a person out there to play them.

I too dislike the 'browsing' system. It does need heavy modification and work put in. I wish they hadn't had to rush it out, I really do. But thats life.
I personally like MA. I hope it goes far. Yes, I don't like the mass of missions that are there that I, personally, don't like, but again thats life.

MA also lets me (for one) put up stuff that actually isn't really possible with just normal game stuff. Like having four characters of my design actually fighting together like they were always meant to. (Can't find the post which talked about fighting player made characters in MA...Not all of it is badly done, t'be fair )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

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What we have now is a Virtual Reality CoX where players are getting xp, inf and badges for someting that isn't real - and by that I mean it isn't set in the CoX Universe.

It's an odd situation but basically it's a virtual world within a virtual world and any amount of game immersion can't be maintained due to this.

[/ QUOTE ] And in one fowl swoop this no longer seems funny; just ironic.

Tyger (50), Mutation-Controller Mind/FF - oldest Mind/FF on Union
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

 

Posted

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MA will end up appealing only to farmers. That's basically it. Farmers by their very nature simply grind and don't get involved in story or character/game immersion.


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I for one absolutely despise farming. Despise it. And MA can only be summed up by me as:

Best. Issue. Ever.

I know im not alone. The MA channel is full of great people just doing missions and passing recommendations, feedback etc. For me, MA is the very antithesis of farming.

I know farmers are trying to use it. But I can assure you that MA is not ony appealig to farmeres

We all have our priorities about where resources go in the game. I get annoyed everyy time resources are spent on PvP given how smashed it is and how few people PvP. And at least one issue was pretty much PvP only.

 

Posted

I'm pleased that you like like MA, and the same goes for other players that do.

It's really just a personal thing.

I've been playing a few MA arcs made by some friends of mine. In just a few days of using the system I've played missions that were innovative and fun.

So what's the problem?

These innovative and fun missions/arcs should have already been in the game - as part of the CoX Universe. If players can do this with just a few days of practice, why do we not already have new missions, new mobs, new zones, new arcs, new missions in the game?

If it's so easy to do .. why hasn't it already happened?

Yes .. MA may be fun, but it is simply not part of the CoX Universe as it stands right now.

As an example, I levelled my Elec/Elec Brute from 23 to 27 tonight. I didn't leave the AE building, except to level and get new enhancements. If I 'died' in a mission, I simply went to the AE hospital, loaded up with inspirations from the handy Insp vendor by the hospital door and jumped right back into the virtual mission a few steps away.

As far as game immersion goes, it's game breaking - pure and simple.

Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.

Hero 50's - 25

Villain 50's - 1

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pleased that you like like MA, and the same goes for other players that do.

It's really just a personal thing.

I've been playing a few MA arcs made by some friends of mine. In just a few days of using the system I've played missions that were innovative and fun.

So what's the problem?

These innovative and fun missions/arcs should have already been in the game - as part of the CoX Universe. If players can do this with just a few days of practice, why do we not already have new missions, new mobs, new zones, new arcs, new missions in the game?

If it's so easy to do .. why hasn't it already happened?

Yes .. MA may be fun, but it is simply not part of the CoX Universe as it stands right now.

As an example, I levelled my Elec/Elec Brute from 23 to 27 tonight. I didn't leave the AE building, except to level and get new enhancements. If I 'died' in a mission, I simply went to the AE hospital, loaded up with inspirations from the handy Insp vendor by the hospital door and jumped right back into the virtual mission a few steps away.

As far as game immersion goes, it's game breaking - pure and simple.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's just like your opinion man.

Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

 

Posted

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[ QUOTE ]
I'm pleased that you like like MA, and the same goes for other players that do.

It's really just a personal thing.

I've been playing a few MA arcs made by some friends of mine. In just a few days of using the system I've played missions that were innovative and fun.

So what's the problem?

These innovative and fun missions/arcs should have already been in the game - as part of the CoX Universe. If players can do this with just a few days of practice, why do we not already have new missions, new mobs, new zones, new arcs, new missions in the game?

If it's so easy to do .. why hasn't it already happened?

Yes .. MA may be fun, but it is simply not part of the CoX Universe as it stands right now.

As an example, I levelled my Elec/Elec Brute from 23 to 27 tonight. I didn't leave the AE building, except to level and get new enhancements. If I 'died' in a mission, I simply went to the AE hospital, loaded up with inspirations from the handy Insp vendor by the hospital door and jumped right back into the virtual mission a few steps away.

As far as game immersion goes, it's game breaking - pure and simple.

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That's just like your opinion man.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course it is.

That's what people do on forums sometimes. Convey their respective opinions in writing, so that other can know said opinions.

Unless you know different?

Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.

Hero 50's - 25

Villain 50's - 1

 

Posted

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If it's so easy to do .. why hasn't it already happened?


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Am I missing the bit where this came out quickly? Because they've essentially been making a very big (And nifty) development tool and giving it to us as content.

Which is both sneaky and awesome at the same time.

 

Posted

You got some good points which I cannot deny.

[ QUOTE ]

So what's the problem?

These innovative and fun missions/arcs should have already been in the game - as part of the CoX Universe. If players can do this with just a few days of practice, why do we not already have new missions, new mobs, new zones, new arcs, new missions in the game?

If it's so easy to do .. why hasn't it already happened?

Yes .. MA may be fun, but it is simply not part of the CoX Universe as it stands right now.


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It was never easy. They made this great tool to replace a spreadsheet. So their developers could work on new missions.

They gave it to us because they saw how much potential it had. I hope we get more new content as well.

A lot of stories out there are based upon the cox universe. Building upon it. Making it into fan based canon. The devs however can, if they like elevate one of those arcs to true canon by implementing them in the game. I personally like to use existing NPC's and elevate them to contacts for my arcs.

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As an example, I levelled my Elec/Elec Brute from 23 to 27 tonight. I didn't leave the AE building, except to level and get new enhancements. If I 'died' in a mission, I simply went to the AE hospital, loaded up with inspirations from the handy Insp vendor by the hospital door and jumped right back into the virtual mission a few steps away.

As far as game immersion goes, it's game breaking - pure and simple.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very true, however the game is 5 years old. It could use a new boost and I think this is it.

 

Posted

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As far as game immersion goes, it's game breaking - pure and simple.

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I like the MA so far but I think I see what you're saying. I love flying around the city (or the isles) seeing pedestrians, cars, thugs to pound on etc. Now I reckon you could level from 1 - 50 without setting foot outside of the AE building. And that's a shame.

Perhaps in future, we'll have the ability to set door points around the city that'll help keep some of that immersion although I expect that would annoy just as many people as it would please. The MA will be an added extra to my game but I still like doing other things too. Right now it's just popular because it's shiny and new. There are already limits to its capabilities and I think that will send some people back to Dev created arcs in time.

As for the arcs being part of the CoX universe, I believe that the Dev's choice award is meant to be part of that but that may well be a hard accolade to achieve. I will be watching to see how things develop.

@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk

 

Posted

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As for the arcs being part of the CoX universe, I believe that the Dev's choice award is meant to be part of that but that may well be a hard accolade to achieve. I will be watching to see how things develop.

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No - Dev's Choice is exactly what it says on the can. It's an arc that one or more developers thought was great, or fun, or innovative, or... just something that made a dev go 'Wow! This should be recognised'.

Back when HoF and DC were announced (in some intervoiew or other IIRC) it was stated that there was a 3rd level of recognition above dev's choice. This may be the 'guest author' thing, but we don't know.

Most supposition seems to be that it may this 3rd level that elevates an arc to become part of canon (possibly complete with being moved to a normal door). But, as I say, it's all supposition.

AFAIK no official word has been received regarding either the 3rd tier or promotion-to-canon.

By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
These innovative and fun missions/arcs should have already been in the game - as part of the CoX Universe. If players can do this with just a few days of practice, why do we not already have new missions, new mobs, new zones, new arcs, new missions in the game?

[/ QUOTE ]
When did NC hire hundreds of new writers? I'm as dissapointed as anybody that there haven't been more new missions recently but the fact that the players can do this is a tribute to them, not a criticism of NCSoft. Even with the new hires there's still only a few of them and (for better or worse) they've been working on other things. And don't forget this:
[ QUOTE ]
Am I missing the bit where this came out quickly? Because they've essentially been making a very big (And nifty) development tool and giving it to us as content.

Which is both sneaky and awesome at the same time.

[/ QUOTE ]
Making mission just got easier for everyone, NCSoft included. I'm saving my criticism for I15 - they've got no excuses now.

"If there's anything worse than being sacrificed, it's being sacrificed incompetantly."

 

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I vote for a rename for i14, its not mission architect at all, its Task Force Architect.

In a mission you can invite new members, you cant in MA missions.

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Have you tried?
This is wrong, but I made this assumption too at first so it's OK IMO :P

Although MA missions say they're in Task Force mode, you CAN invite people after a MA arc begins.

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If thats the case then it was either a bug, or noob leaders lol. I kept getting messages all day 'sorry on MA arc cant invite'. It was really getting on my nerves thinking they had done something to make teaming even harder, but if this isnt true then i suppose i dont really have a right to complain lol.

 

Posted

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If it's so easy to do .. why hasn't it already happened?


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I missing the bit where this came out quickly? Because they've essentially been making a very big (And nifty) development tool and giving it to us as content.

Which is both sneaky and awesome at the same time.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not saying that MA was easy to get out to us. He's saying that this demonstrates how easy it is to create missions/arcs/ new enemies to fight etc. He's asking the extremely valid question that if the dev tools are even more powerful, why have they never bothered to raise the bar in terms of mission content?

Because it's quite clear that it would be very simple to have done so.
Especially if they had ever added tools to their own MA systems. (boobytraps perhaps- that kind of thing.)

I see now more clearly than ever what they COULD have done but just have never bothered to do.

So for me personally, while I enjoy MA (although I have a prob from when I copied my arc from test to live) I have come away thinking that it's a real pity they ever thought it was necessary to give us this particular feature in the first place.

Sorry, but in the overall picture, this just highlights their shortcomings as far as i'm concerned.

Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick

Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven

2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...

 

Posted

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No - Dev's Choice is exactly what it says on the can. It's an arc that one or more developers thought was great, or fun, or innovative, or... just something that made a dev go 'Wow! This should be recognised'.

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I don't understand this devs choice at all. They can't possibly play through even 1% of the player content. Even the highly starred content.
So how do they make their determinations?

Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick

Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven

2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...

 

Posted

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Sorry, but in the overall picture, this just highlights their shortcomings as far as i'm concerned.

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Or perhaps it just how overly optimistic you and Cobra Man are.

Yeah, we've been given dev tools. Big whoop. That doesn't mean it's easy for them to add new features to it, create interesting and fresh mobs out of thin air or create new maps.

The only element we're bringing to the game is writing. Everything else already exists inside CoX; so I don't know where the hell people are getting the idea that the MA is an indication new (as in genuinely new) content is simple.

 

Posted

What Dave? Could you speak up? That horse is mighty high and I'm having trouble hearing you...

Like you said, people pay for the game, they're free to play it as they see fit. And create as they see fit. Who are you or any of us to say that's wrong?

If you don't like what's being churned out of the MA, you don't have to play it. It really is easy to identify the farms or the "bad" ones just by looking at titles and/or descriptions. And if you really are that bothered, you can always 1 star that which you don't like.

Asking for them to be removed is going a bit too far I think and whiffs a bit of censorship... and like LONDONER said: did you really expect any thing different?

Play and let play, it's only a game.

Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit

 

Posted

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Sorry, but in the overall picture, this just highlights their shortcomings as far as i'm concerned.

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, we've been given dev tools. Big whoop.

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Some of them.

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That doesn't mean it's easy for them to add new features to it, create interesting and fresh mobs out of thin air or create new maps.

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Of course it does. Blimey I made a couple of new mobs and villians in 10 minutes flat. I've seen several engaging player made villians. And this is our spare time. And most definately not our profession. It's a piece of cake.

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The only element we're bringing to the game is writing. Everything else already exists inside CoX; so I don't know where the hell people are getting the idea that the MA is an indication new (as in genuinely new) content is simple.

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We're bringing in customised villians and heroes for a start. And if there were more tools we could do more. And so, by the way, could the devs.

Look at how many "arcs" they give us that are exactly the same as other arcs we've seen but with different maps, mobs, (malta instead of the council type villians) and an added glowie.

All they did was save one game and overlay it with the new maps and critters and save as and voila. That's about an hours work. They have never even bothered to mix it up by adding different types of enemies within existing groups.

I still fight the same sappers, gunslingers etc when i face the Malta for example. The same set of the same group I fought 5 years ago. What about you?

Hard? I mean, give me a break.

Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick

Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven

2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...

 

Posted

I am disappointed to discover my predictions correct on the uselessness of the selection process. I didn't Beta it cause on the whole the MA doesn't interest me, but I had a feeling that the search feature would completely devalue any good work they could put in. Its almost random whether you get a good mission from it, missions with good back story all seem to have really boring game play in them so trying to vet based on that seems futile. The one mission I did enjoy was one I clicked on due to lag and then thought "what the hell" it had fun mobs, a cunning ambush set up in it and a boss that was a devil to fight.......... on the other hand it had no story to it at all that I could tell. A star system tells you nothing, except if something is exceptionally bad as most will average out. Its brought in a new flow of content that is demoralising when you're trying to find the stuff worth doing

"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"

 

Posted

Yes Cyn... and yet you have but only to play it once. Or not even that as you can rate at any time and then quit.

Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit

 

Posted

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What Dave? Could you speak up? That horse is mighty high and I'm having trouble hearing you...

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I fitted microphones and speakers on it's hooves though...

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Asking for them to be removed is going a bit too far I think and whiffs a bit of censorship... and like LONDONER said: did you really expect any thing different?

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I have never said that they should be removed.

I used the phrase 'if we remove' several times in the OP - but merely to show what would be left 'if' these arcs were removed, not to state that they should be removed by some form of standards monitor.

I'd much rather that the real dross wasn't published in the first place. I'm more for self-censorship rather than imposing standards.

By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)

 

Posted

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Yes Cyn... and yet you have but only to play it once. Or not even that as you can rate at any time and then quit.

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But the maths involved in the rating makes such a small difference that other peoples ratings cant really put you off thanks to large numbers

"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]

Of course it does. Blimey I made a couple of new mobs and villians in 10 minutes flat. I've seen several engaging player made villians. And this is our spare time. And most definately not our profession. It's a piece of cake.

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No, what you did is make new costumes for old mobs using old costume pieces. I can bet you'd be among those whinging the developers were being cheap if they used existing costume pieces and packaged the mobs as "new".

Although if that would please you, then I apologise for over-eestimating your standards.