Issue 14 Closed Beta starts today
By
3dent,
Posted on: 2009-02-13 20:46 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Devs hate Heroes/Villains/Europeans/your mother/everything/etc.
Devs even hate devs. Positron recently blew up Castle's house. True story.
"The Hamidon is a what what of what?" - Brian the mission guy.
Although i14 sounds cool, I'd rather NC spend their budget a lot more on marketing and building the player base to say, an extra 100k players EU side? Or even better, just on Defiant? 
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There's nothing wrong per se with the MA. On the face of it it's a great idea.
But the bottom line, to me, is making it the companies major thrust on the eve of its first direct competition coming out is a major mistake.
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It's not though, is it. Issue 15, the big story advancing issue, is the one that will come out on the eve of CO.
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And we (and the outside media) know less about that than we do about games that havent even exited (or started) closed Beta yet. Great.
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Not that CO is really the "first direct competition". You only have to look at the big drop in numbers when WAR was released to see that.
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Yeah I know what War did, and there's no question any succesful game is capable of taking a bite out of our playerbase. But that only compounds the problem.
It's not direct competition in the sense I meant though. Although I know what you mean.
I meant a super hero affectionado.
Till now, you want to play a superhero this is the only MMO
in town. Soon there will be direct competition.
if Warhammer, a non superhero game can do that what can a new (assume reasonably good) superhero game do?
I dont think this game has batoned down the hatches at all. It's just carried on as though it hasnt got a concern in the world.
I havent seen any urgency, any innovative new content, nothing. As I say MA, in that sense, doesnt impress me because it doesnt require any imagination or inspired thought.
It's just a case of figuring out how to pass over the relevent tech. As I said, I'm sure it will find fans but it's not exactly gonna have CO or DC shaking in their booties.
And by now something to that effect should either be out there or have been announced.
If i was on the board at Cryptic I would be delighted at the (non) response NC have laid out in anticipation of CO. I really would.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
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Although i14 sounds cool, I'd rather NC spend their budget a lot more on marketing and building the player base to say, an extra 100k players EU side? Or even better, just on Defiant?
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I think the opposite of that, they missed the boat for new players about 3 years ago, i think they want to try keeping what they got with some content.
Content made by devs, not players.
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If i was on the board at Cryptic I would be delighted at the (non) response NC have laid out in anticipation of CO. I really would
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One of the things they have promised (at some point, in Jack years) is player created missions.
No wonder NC isn't letting anything slip.
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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And we (and the outside media) know less about that than we do about games that havent even exited (or started) closed Beta yet. Great.
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Speek for yourself.
For those left out of the loop, they are keeping thier powder dry for when it will have the biggest impact, I.e. about 1 month before CO goes live (as near as they can guess).
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I meant a super hero affectionado.
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Who make up a relatively small proportion of the playerbase.
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if Warhammer, a non superhero game can do that what can a new (assume reasonably good) superhero game do?
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Very little. WAR is an excellent game. Reasonably good simply won't cut the mustard. Of course CO could be excellent. In which case CoX is doomed whatever they do, and we end up with a better game to play. More likely, it will bomb, based on what I'm hearing from beta, unless they take another 6 months minimum to get it right.
I really should do something about this signature.
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If i was on the board at Cryptic I would be delighted at the (non) response NC have laid out in anticipation of CO. I really would
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One of the things they have promised (at some point, in Jack years) is player created missions.
No wonder NC isn't letting anything slip.
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MA is basically a response to COs archnemesis sytem. In CO you can create a villain, choose his look and powers, but you can't choose his minions, or write his story or dialogue. as well as other things, MA will let you create an archnemesis, with powers and costume, and choose his minions, and write his story, and write his dialogue.
I really should do something about this signature.
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If i was on the board at Cryptic I would be delighted at the (non) response NC have laid out in anticipation of CO. I really would
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One of the things they have promised (at some point, in Jack years) is player created missions.
No wonder NC isn't letting anything slip.
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MA is basically a response to COs archnemesis sytem. In CO you can create a villain, choose his look and powers, but you can't choose his minions, or write his story or dialogue. as well as other things, MA will let you create an archnemesis, with powers and costume, and choose his minions, and write his story, and write his dialogue.
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So, in other words, they are two completely unrelated things, with no connection to each other whatsoever?
Player created missions and an archenemy which appears randomly to confront you... yes, I see the similarity
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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I meant a super hero affectionado.
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Who make up a relatively small proportion of the playerbase.
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Of this superhero game???? okaaay....
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if Warhammer, a non superhero game can do that what can a new (assume reasonably good) superhero game do?
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Very little. WAR is an excellent game. Reasonably good simply won't cut the mustard.
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Well we disagree there. But time will answer that one.
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meaning Of course CO could be excellent. In which case CoX is doomed whatever they do, and we end up with a better game to play.
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And this is my point. I happen to believe that plenty could be done to circumvent that happening regardless (within reason) just how good CO is. But they havent done it.
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More likely, it will bomb, based on what I'm hearing from beta, unless they take another 6 months minimum to get it right.
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That's a point for the CO thread but they seem to be listening and improving. You can get an awful lot done during a beta. As just one example CoH was classless when it went into beta.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
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So, in other words, they are two completely unrelated things, with no connection to each other whatsoever?
Player created missions and an archenemy which appears randomly to confront you... yes, I see the similarity
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The idea for the arch nemesis came from non other than our own Positron. Years ago.
It seems to me that CO have taken quite a few things from CoH. Infact they even claim its the game they wish they could have made all those years ago.
Is it so terrible for CoH to grab a few ideas (Arch nemesis, interactive envirments, banks etc etc etc) from them?
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
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So, in other words, they are two completely unrelated things, with no connection to each other whatsoever?
Player created missions and an archenemy which appears randomly to confront you... yes, I see the similarity
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The idea for the arch nemesis came from non other than our own Positron. Years ago.
It seems to me that CO have taken quite a few things from CoH. Infact they even claim its the game they wish they could have made all those years ago.
Is it so terrible for CoH to grab a few ideas (Arch nemesis, interactive envirments, banks etc etc etc) from them?
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Can you imagine how old and how quickly the archnemesis system would become? Unless there was some form of random generator which took from a LARGE range of mission objectives/maps/dialogues then it'ld constantly just become another standard boss mission.
Sure to begin with it'ld be great, but longterm i dont think so. Personal view of course.
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
QR
MA wrote:
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Player created missions and an archenemy which appears randomly to confront you... yes, I see the similarity
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Does the CO nemesis appear randomly? I thought it was a little more 'structured' than that - thought it appeared more like it's own mini-arc than randomly whenever you least expect.
LB wrote:
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The idea for the arch nemesis came from non other than our own Positron.
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I'm pretty sure that the idea of an archenemy has been knocking around for many centuries. It's even existed in comics before computers were used to play games... It's a pretty quantum leap to put it into games about heroes/villains.
note - quantum as in a small, indivisible unit of leaping - i.e. archenemies are a pretty obvious idea to anyone thinking about designing a hero game!
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I know I've said this a lot over the last few months, and I'm well aware it's been said in this thread but even so.
The dev team are NOT sitting around twiddling their thumbs waiting for the competition to shove them out of business, they will be grinding the millstone of creativity to ensure that when CO arrives they can counter with new inovitave ideas that will make many people step back and think about what they've said.
We have a game and a community riding on our success, they have their careers on the line, they will not be sitting around doing nothing now that competition is on the horizon.
All I can say is that the fact that the I14 official features list, or lack of one, is revealing about some of the content that will be added to the Issue alongside the MA.
Or at least, that's what I think.
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it's the same thing all over again, america first, and europe can clean up there mess again.
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That's kinda reverse history then 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Devs even hate devs. Positron recently blew up Castle's house. True story.
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But it wasn't the first time Positron tried it, so Castle survived, as the explosion was affected by diminishing returns.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I happen to believe that plenty could be done to circumvent that happening regardless (within reason) just how good CO is. But they havent done it.
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Being in marketing, you clearly believe in selling people tripe.
From my point of view, if CO is a much better product, then it would be an altogether good thing for people to switch to the superior product.
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That's a point for the CO thread but they seem to be listening and improving
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Certainly seems to be true. The graphics certainly seems much improved. But it is still very light on real content, bug ridden, and with appalling button mashing gameplay. All these things can be fixed, but the can't be fixed quickly.
I really should do something about this signature.
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I happen to believe that plenty could be done to circumvent that happening regardless (within reason) just how good CO is. But they havent done it.
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Being in marketing, you clearly believe in selling people tripe.
From my point of view, if CO is a much better product, then it would be an altogether good thing for people to switch to the superior product.
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That's a point for the CO thread but they seem to be listening and improving
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Certainly seems to be true. The graphics certainly seems much improved. But it is still very light on real content, bug ridden, and with appalling button mashing gameplay. All these things can be fixed, but the can't be fixed quickly.
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Spill some more CO beta info for us
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I know I've said this a lot over the last few months, and I'm well aware it's been said in this thread but even so.
The dev team are NOT sitting around twiddling their thumbs waiting for the competition to shove them out of business, they will be grinding the millstone of creativity to ensure that when CO arrives they can counter with new inovitave ideas that will make many people step back and think about what they've said.
We have a game and a community riding on our success, they have their careers on the line, they will not be sitting around doing nothing now that competition is on the horizon.
All I can say is that the fact that the I14 official features list, or lack of one, is revealing about some of the content that will be added to the Issue alongside the MA.
Or at least, that's what I think.
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Just hope whatever they do doesnt make it more unplayable than it is now.
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LB wrote:
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The idea for the arch nemesis came from non other than our own Positron.
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I'm pretty sure that the idea of an archenemy has been knocking around for many centuries. It's even existed in comics before computers were used to play games... It's a pretty quantum leap to put it into games about heroes/villains.
note - quantum as in a small, indivisible unit of leaping - i.e. archenemies are a pretty obvious idea to anyone thinking about designing a hero game!
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Dave! I'm suprised at you. you arent normally given to petty semantics.
Yes arch foes have been with us since year dot. But I'm pretty sure you knew I was referring to a super hero MMO context.
And I am unaware of any MMO anywhere that incoroporates that type of system.
And Ide be surprised if the AI to achieve any sophisticated "archfoe" gameplay was available until fairly recently.
Please tell me I didnt have to say.. "the first person in the MMO superhero arena to suggest and want an arch enemy system was our very own Positron."
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
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I happen to believe that plenty could be done to circumvent that happening regardless (within reason) just how good CO is. But they havent done it.
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Being in marketing, you clearly believe in selling people tripe.
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Can you please try , just try to avoid making insulting coments like this? I believe you can do it. Just believe to achieve. Or fake it to make it. You can do it.
Oh and Marketing isnt the only thing I consult on.
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From my point of view, if CO is a much better product, then it would be an altogether good thing for people to switch to the superior product.
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Not disputing that. Im simply commenting on MA, why its good but given the context of whats round the corner, a major disapointment to me. Anything else really is for another thread.
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That's a point for the CO thread but they seem to be listening and improving
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Certainly seems to be true. The graphics certainly seems much improved. But it is still very light on real content, bug ridden, and with appalling button mashing gameplay. All these things can be fixed, but the can't be fixed quickly.
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All will be revealed in due course I guess.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
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Devs even hate devs. Positron recently blew up Castle's house. True story.
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But it wasn't the first time Positron tried it, so Catsle survived, as the explosion was affected by diminishing returns.
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^ Very bad joke above.
As for me on MA...
Yeah, I like the idea of it. But I am certainly going to be trying out the competition as it comes along. I'm keeping my options open.
I know that some when CO/DCUO comes they will be packing their bags and starting from scratch all over again. I don't really want that to happen but hey it's natural in a MMO - in fact, in the case of Ultima Online, any MMO coming out was trouble for it. Why? It was the first MMO, always has been, always will be. But there are still some people left, a little community, on that game.
I think the same will happen with CoX. A lot will leave but we will still have a small community who just enjoy playing the game and don't even consider trying out competition, let alone buying it.
As far as CoX's future is concerned, it wasn't the choice I would've picked, as it will only please those intrested in making story arcs and missions. Still, I guess it will be a popular feature to attract people. Will it survive the waves of competition? Only time will tell.
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[ in the case of Ultima Online, any MMO coming out was trouble for it. Why? It was the first MMO, always has been, always will be.
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Well, arguably, Nexus: Kingdom Of The Winds was the first MMO, given that it was out over a year before Ultima Online. Meridian 59 and The Realm Online also could make a good claim to that title of first. UO was one of the first to really become popular though.
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As someone who has been active in a few other modding communities, I think those of you being so blasé about the Mission Architect are underestimating the creativity that is unleashed when people are freed from having to design to market expectations and corporate guidelines. Oh, you'll no doubt get some truly infantile drek as well, but I expect to be pleasantly surprised by a good number... in particular, that screen shot at the wiki reveals an intriguing "Placement" option. If that does what I think/hope it does, sets the placement of spawns and ambushes etc on maps, I can already envision the following at least;
* Running to a supermarket (Radio mission map) and then holding off huge hordes of the Undead a-la Night Of The Living Dead with a temporary shotgun power
* Missions to find "Transformers", Malta robots triggered from under cars on the landscape?
* Mass NPC v NPC battles (they can already fight), which you can affect by fighting alongside them at certain locations to kill opposing generals; victory or defeat conditions set by losing too many leaders amongst the mobs
* Trials of Strength; each room having a progressively harder amount of spawn.
* "Amusing" jokes... An arc devoted purely to all those great CoH times past; on one map, all the spawn is already inside the skips, just for you tankers! And everything in the inevitable cave map is either clipped into the walls, or hiding in the roof of That Damned Multilevel Bit.
And that's just off the top of my head... So yeah, wait and see guys, I have rather more faith in the dedicated fans than perhaps you do. And unlike in some games, you'll be able to easily integrate and access this content to your own experiences too.
Also... you have NO IDEA how many cow-related puns I'm planning for my moo-gnum opus.... muahaha!
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it's the same thing all over again, america first, and europe can clean up there mess again.
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Try writing coherent, incisive, well thought-out and presented discussions and guides, with proper capitalised sentences, rather than whining that it's not fair.
Surely that is a much more effective way to get into a beta, rather than complaining that the US gets all the treats (and I believe the EU have had beta testers before anyway).
If I was in charge Mids, Arcanaville and Samuraiko (for example) would always get beta invites. Random people complaining it's not fair, either here or in the US, would get squit all.
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you're really missing the point, totally.
the US ALWAYS has the first laugh in this, the EU is just walking the side ways all the time.
i am not complaining, i say the fact, if you can't deal with it, your problem.
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Wait so a handful of US players get to take part, thousands of US players AND EU players miss out and it's a vindictive attack on the EU how?
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
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