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See the stumbling block that seems to have been hit here is between those of an RP mindset, that the game timeline is always moving forward, that things have happened before it started and each day is different, and so why should their character who has a few decades of backstory and already have a cape.
Against people who believe that the game world is non-changing and simply just a game that dictates what your characters are, and so has every person start in outbreak and be a rookie hero who has to prove themselves and the world only finds out about secrets when you do them.
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Guess what school I am? Every hero/villain start from scratch without any knowledge my main has. So yes Vazhilok needs to be arrested before he unleashes his plague. Hero 1 is the big hero of old until I discover that he is not worthy of that honor!
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So really youre just going to keep arguing this back and forth in all honesty.
Onto my point: Shoulder capes were meh, maybe counting as breaking it, but Valk pack does, you get capes at level one.
Solution: Change all capes to level one or make it so you can't get the Valk cape until level 20, having it this way is just silly in my opinion
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I agree that the Valk cape should only be available at level 20 not before.
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Statesman doesn't make the laws. But the superheroes as a community decided to do this. So you can be stubborn and say frak that. But then you will be seriously snubbed by everybody. Because they think you are a disrespectful sob who is not worthy of their respect. In the end that can kill you.
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You risk your life fighting crime and may in fact save the entire city several times, but you aren't worthy of repect because you have a personal difference of opinion where it comes to exercising your constitutional rights to freedom of expression?
That's pretty silly. I don't think superheroes behave that way - and even if they did, I also don't think they cave in to peer pressure, so it's really not much of an argument.
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Read what Scarlet wrote a few pages back. That is exactly what will happen. To belong to a group you will have to prove to that group that you are one of them. It happens all around you every day.
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Yes, Spades, but the point is there is too much inconsistancy. Does that PoV mean that everyone wearing a shoulder cape or a Valkyrie cape INSTANTLY gets snubbed by the Hero Community?
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see above
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And Recluse might tout absolute power, but there are enough groups in the Rogues that don't give a spit, and will probably shelter such members as choose to ignore him (maybe for a fee, of course). And, again, if thats the case why does everyone wearing a valkyrie cape or shoulder cape not get attacked by a lvl 50 Bane Spider squad as soon as they step into Mercy Island?
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I gave a possible explanation a few pages ago. To summarize. Capes are forbidden but shoulder capes are technically not true capes and thus they law enforcers don't do a thing about it and for some reason LR does not mind. Perhaps he is amused by the show of rebellion here? As for the Valkyrie cape. I assume that the manufacturor of said item paid a big bribe to make sure everybody can wear it. Up until now, those bribes seems to be holding. Which might change of course.
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As for Hero 1 and the timeline, the timeline has so much borkage in it that Im starting to think the Menders MIGHT be bad guys 
Even if the Phalanx has decided to keep mum, the rest of the world wouldnt. Villains who want to laugh in the faces of the heroes would plaster the truth all across the internet, hells all across anywhere, and im pretty sure the Hero community would natter about it. Im certain I've heard that discussion at least once at GG or PD.
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To me the timeline is not evolving every hero/villain starts at point 0 and will have to find out the truth for himself. Once more see above.
Can I please ask -why- must every hero go through the exact same story then?
Why do my characters always have to be limited to some rookie who's never even fought crime before? What if I don't want my character to be like that?
CoX and it's char customisation allow us to make nearly any character we want, it encourages us to do so, nowhere else is your character forced to be anything, other then for these blasted capes and aura's.
Please give me a reason -why- all my characters -must- be the same like that?
See, thing is, as RP'ers, Vazhilok has already been arrested. Countless times. He breaks out, people arrest him. Countess Crey is somehow even more slippery than an eel in a KY gel factory to escape jail so many times. If you went up to a group of RP'ers and said 'Crey Cola has nanomites in to track people's purchasing and diets!' some would already know that, because they've made investigations too.
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I agree that the Valk cape should only be available at level 20 not before.
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I have a choice of axes to use when people express opinions like this. 
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
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I agree that the Valk cape should only be available at level 20 not before.
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I have a choice of axes to use when people express opinions like this.
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Hmm, distraction for barbarians...
*Drops Khorak in front of an amazonian village filled with gold, gems and other such shiny things.*
Ok, onto the subject at hand, I can't give an explanation for new capes being availible at level 1, I brought the SE of Coh with the special cape and was only able to equip the cape at level 20, this should be the case with the new pack.
The Shoulder Capes are a different kettle of fish, to earn them you need to buy the game (£12.99) and pay a subscription for another 20 months (8.99) a total of £192.79. Yes I'm aware that this could be lower if you purchased in bulk, won creative genius or got people to sign up but this is what most people would pay. For those who don't want to do the maths this is nearly 15 times what you'd pay for the Mac edition and 32 times the £5.99 we'll probably pay for the pack when it arrives.
And for the argument that Hero 1 is alive and we don't need to pay respect to his memory anymore, that information is not available to the public, according to game lore that info is protected at a clearance above the Omega Clearance you need to learn that the Rikti were human, so there is absolutely no way a level one hero should even be aware that the Honoree could have been human, never mind Hero 1.
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And for the argument that Hero 1 is alive and we don't need to pay respect to his memory anymore, that information is not available to the public, according to game lore that info is protected at a clearance above the Omega Clearance you need to learn that the Rikti were human, so there is absolutely no way a level one hero should even be aware that the Honoree could have been human, never mind Hero 1.
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Yeah but any villains who have happened along are going to care about such things, infact most villains would love to tarnish the name of Hero 1 just to screw with peoples heads and show that even their treasured heroes aren't beyond being controlled into villainy.
Well those kind of villains which would do that kind of thing anyway (not the Axe crazy ones).
Badge Earned: Wing Clipper
A real showstopper!
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And for the argument that Hero 1 is alive and we don't need to pay respect to his memory anymore, that information is not available to the public, according to game lore that info is protected at a clearance above the Omega Clearance you need to learn that the Rikti were human, so there is absolutely no way a level one hero should even be aware that the Honoree could have been human, never mind Hero 1.
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Yeah but any villains who have happened along are going to care about such things, infact most villains would love to tarnish the name of Hero 1 just to screw with peoples heads and show that even their treasured heroes aren't beyond being controlled into villainy.
Well those kind of villains which would do that kind of thing anyway (not the Axe crazy ones).
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Who are you going to believe, upstanding Hero or evil Villain?
The people of Paragon City know that Villains would love nothing more than to see them panic at the thought that one of their greatest heroes is now working for the Rikti and wouldn't believe it without physical prove.
To be honest, the view should be moot from the get go.
It called an MMO[bold]RPG[/bold] for a reason, isn't it?
Anyway, I've said it before, its worth putting up again. It's all about options. People *have* the option right now to not use the Valk capes and shoulder capes until lvl 20, should they see fit, if they choose there Hero to be a rookie/trainee, etc. Or if their Villain is really that unambitious/scaredycat that they're going to go along with what Recluse wants ("For now! /em shakefist" )
What we DONT have is the full option for capes and auras at lvl 1. Which straightjackets peoples concepts at the start. To have such a great costume editor and then recrict parts like that doesnt feel right. If they feel there should be milestones, aside from the ones we already have like unlockable weapons, Rularuu items and Vanguard/Roman kit, then simply add more! Options are good, more options are better!
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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To be honest, the view should be moot from the get go.
It called an MMO[bold]RPG[/bold] for a reason, isn't it?
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The reason being wishful thinking by the roleplayers, it seems - according to NCSoft it's just a "massively multiplayer online game".
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To be honest, the view should be moot from the get go.
It called an MMO[bold]RPG[/bold] for a reason, isn't it?
Anyway, I've said it before, its worth putting up again. It's all about options. People *have* the option right now to not use the Valk capes and shoulder capes until lvl 20, should they see fit, if they choose there Hero to be a rookie/trainee, etc. Or if their Villain is really that unambitious/scaredycat that they're going to go along with what Recluse wants ("For now! /em shakefist" )
What we DONT have is the full option for capes and auras at lvl 1. Which straightjackets peoples concepts at the start. To have such a great costume editor and then recrict parts like that doesnt feel right. If they feel there should be milestones, aside from the ones we already have like unlockable weapons, Rularuu items and Vanguard/Roman kit, then simply add more! Options are good, more options are better!
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But every option not in the game from level 1 limits me. Be it capes/auras/tommyguns or roman armor. It limits me that there are some veteran options not available from day 1. It limits me that Jay has not yet created things I need for my next new character concept.
I can always create a character that is not supported by this game. Because there will always be limits intentionally or not. But I also can create thousands of characters that ARE supported. Even supported from day 1 at level 1.
Today, my police officer made level 20 and the first thing she did was to get that cape. Why? Because she had earned the right to wear the cape. It means something. To her it means that she has proved that you don't have to be a freak with laser eyes to make a difference. To me it meant that it was a wonderful game immersion thing. It made the game better for me that I was able to get that achievement. Today as well one newbie (fresh in the game) in my SG was very enthusiastic that he now could wear a cape for his hero. For him to it was proof that he had accomplished something. it also meant that he learned a piece of wonderful game lore.
Milestones are important, don't erode them further.
Limits because they have 'not been done yet' are a whole different ball-game.
Anyway, Ive made my opinion clear, as have others. In the end, like it or not, its all down to the devs to decide.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Aye I think we said everything to be said around here. Let the Devs sort it out from here.
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To be honest, the view should be moot from the get go.
It called an MMO[bold]RPG[/bold] for a reason, isn't it?
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The reason being wishful thinking by the roleplayers, it seems - according to NCSoft it's just a "massively multiplayer online game".
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http://www.cityofheroes.com/about_th..._synopsis.html
"The Super Powered Massively Multiplayer RPG"
[url=http://vox-doom.deviantart.com]Take A Gander At This.[/url]
What I saw in the link posted by VD...
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City of Tomorrow
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Isn't that the CoX2, set in January 26th, 2009? 
Back on topic, it's a bit unclear wether it's a MMOG or MMORPG. I would say it's a MMORPG, due to it's RPG style (none have pointed that out yet!)
RPG 'style' means nothing. People seem to think that if a game has stats then it's an RPG. Take Final Fantasy 7, I'd call that more of an interactive action/adventure story, there's no role playing to it. Mass Effect and Jade Empire on the other hands I would class as it, as you have a choice to alter the story lines by your own actions.
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Ok - in my mind, CoX lore states that Heroes can't have capes until level 20 in honour of Hero 1 (that was the original story). You had to 'earn the right' to wear one.
So - with the Valkyrie pack out, you can have a cape from level one.
Have we stopped caring about Hero 1's sacrifice?
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TBH I've stopped carring about Hero 1 since the day I firstly read about him I mean come on! The first coolest looking British hero and they gave him the most lamest super hero name ever!
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But every option not in the game from level 1 limits me.
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Yes, they do, but the difference with capes, as has been stated before is that they are so endemic of the superhero genre. To argue that you can create characters not supported by the game is moot when the characters one would want to create are supported by the game.
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Today, my police officer made level 20 and the first thing she did was to get that cape. Why? Because she had earned the right to wear the cape. It means something.
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It means something to some but it certainly doesn't mean anything to everyone within the game world. And who is to say whether it means anything or not? Ultimately it's the devs and if they decide to introduce items that contradict this then we have every right to ask them to look at this again and change it for all. And we should, we should because it should be the responsibility of every player to get the devs to push the limits of this game. That way the game will grow and it is more likely to stay fresh.
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Today as well one newbie (fresh in the game) in my SG was very enthusiastic that he now could wear a cape for his hero. For him to it was proof that he had accomplished something. it also meant that he learned a piece of wonderful game lore.
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Because, to him it's new. I'm not disputing that. I wonder how he would have felt had the capes been available from level 1 and if his 'achievement' had been marked in a different way. Would it have been any less of an achievement?
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Milestones are important, don't erode them further.
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When you say 'further' I am actually not sure how they have been eroded in the past and I wouldn't mind a quick rundown if at all possible.
The thing about eroding milestones though is this; putting capes at level 1 doesn't automatically erode the milestone of reaching 20. You still get a lot of stuff. You get a second costume slot and a great power. It's also where the arcs start becoming more interesting.
Removing capes from the milestone process also doesn't mean that they can't be replaced by something else. The eroding milestone argument never seams to take that in to consideration.
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Removing capes from the milestone process also doesn't mean that they can't be replaced by something else. The eroding milestone argument never seams to take that in to consideration.
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Perhaps because capes are so central to super hero "lore" that getting one should be seen as an achievement. Or to put it another way, it's something to look forward to, to generate anticipation, and therefore feels like a "reward". If there is something that can generate that same kind of anticipation, and be something people will want as much, then sure, move capes to lvl 1 and replace them with something else.
I have a feeling though you'd struggle to find something that would fit the bill as well.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
QR
If people want to make it feel like a reward, an achievement, then why don't once your first character gets the cape, every other character gets it from level 1? It'd be a good middle ground.
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or maybe instead of shoulder capes at 21 months, just make all capes available at level 1 including shoulder capes.
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Tbh that sounds a bit unfair for the people who like it as an achievement, there needs to be some sort of middle ground.
or maybe instead of shoulder capes at 21 months, just make all capes available at level 1 including shoulder capes.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
IMO if you make a character, you should be able to from level 1.
you can talk about achievements, but having a cape at 2/5 of the game doesn't make sense, nether does it make sense that you need to be 3/5 of the game to have an aura.
if i want to make a character with electricity around him, i should not run trough the game, grinding my butt of just for that one thing.
it's a bit the same like the epics, i have to play trough the entire game, only to create a character and start all over again.
i don't see that is fun, nether as achievement, more an annoyance and a ridicules rule.
the fee is 12 euro per month, so that's 144 euro per year.
i can say that, after a year of playing, i strongly deserve to have what i'm paying for, and that includes everything from capes to epic AT's.
you can maybe say i look to much to that, but i rather say this then be the fool and keep it shut.
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Statesman doesn't make the laws. But the superheroes as a community decided to do this. So you can be stubborn and say frak that. But then you will be seriously snubbed by everybody. Because they think you are a disrespectful sob who is not worthy of their respect. In the end that can kill you.
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You risk your life fighting crime and may in fact save the entire city several times, but you aren't worthy of repect because you have a personal difference of opinion where it comes to exercising your constitutional rights to freedom of expression?
That's pretty silly. I don't think superheroes behave that way - and even if they did, I also don't think they cave in to peer pressure, so it's really not much of an argument.