How will you handle the new Merit System
By
Blue Rabbit,
Posted on: 2008-11-06 17:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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In a way I do agree, but can something that is fun not also have a material gain too?
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Sure, but I don't see the point of playing a game for "material gain", which is only monopoly money, if it is not fun, and the amount of fun is not proportional to the level of material gain.
I really should do something about this signature.
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presuming of course that the team is doing the leaders missions; after all he/she gets to choose them
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If the team leader only does thier own missions it is time to find a different team.
I really should do something about this signature.
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In a way I do agree, but can something that is fun not also have a material gain too?
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Sure, but I don't see the point of playing a game for "material gain", which is only monopoly money, if it is not fun, and the amount of fun is not proportional to the level of material gain.
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To my way of thinking, the day the invention system went live, this became a "material" game. It's still possible to have fun obviously, otherwise we wouldn't be here but the material aspect of it can't be ignored.
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In a way I do agree, but can something that is fun not also have a material gain too?
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Sure, but I don't see the point of playing a game for "material gain", which is only monopoly money, if it is not fun, and the amount of fun is not proportional to the level of material gain.
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To my way of thinking, the day the invention system went live, this became a "material" game. It's still possible to have fun obviously, otherwise we wouldn't be here but the material aspect of it can't be ignored.
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True, the Invention System for me is fun, probably if I could get any recipe I wished just by doing any TF, it wouldn't be so fun, but as it stands now (and seems to head for) the grind is a bit too much for my taste though, I can understand grind for games with high endgame content, but on a game based on finishing a char and roll another one, I think there should be means to fully set a char easier/shorter than either the merit system as it is going to be or even the random rewards as they're now.-
Seems very very odd that the stuff they don't have enough data for has a penalty in merits, surely this will mean people will be less likely to do them and thus they will never get the data they need to give them the "proper" number of merits.
It would make more sense to increase the number of merits for these and make a big thing about their bonus, thus meaning people will do them and they can get the data to set merets at their "proper" level.
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It would make more sense to increase the number of merits for these and make a big thing about their bonus, thus meaning people will do them and they can get the data to set merets at their "proper" level.
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You'd think, but when they eventually get the results and cut the amount of reward in half, NCNC will get told they've "nerfed the TF" or whatever. If they start low and increase it, it gets ignored. Note, they cannot get good publicity by raising the rewards. No game company is allowed to win.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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In a way I do agree, but can something that is fun not also have a material gain too?
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Sure, but I don't see the point of playing a game for "material gain", which is only monopoly money, if it is not fun, and the amount of fun is not proportional to the level of material gain.
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But can you not see the benefit of giving an additional incentive to re-playing that 'fun'.
When I first did the ITF I had an 'oh wow' moment. I will never get that 'oh wow' moment again because I have seen it and now expect it. The TF reward is a good added incentive for me to do it again. I could achieve similar amounts of fun joining a normal team but there is another reason to do this specific task again.
I think that we are both approaching this discussion from different points of view and there is some shared understanding missing. Somewhere in all this typing I think I have lost your point and I am not convinced you have understood mine either...
I think im going to start "handling" the new system by saving up a few thousand merits and buying myself 5 Luck of the Gambler: Recharges for my speed-build Scrapper. Bless her, she's in dire need of some more hastening. I'm only at 125% after all...
Characters:
The Heroic Mary Grace (50)
The Mystical Thunderspark (50)
The Candy-loving Little Jenny (50)
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I'm only at 125% after all..
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How do you cope?
Back on track: I'm liking the merit system atm. There are so many options availible already, gotta start saving them up 
So I guess the way I'll handle it is that I'll use it to my advantage.
I don't wanna save my soul now,
I just wanna lose control,
And even if it takes a lifetime, to learn:
I'll learn!
Thinking about it some more, 55 for posi?
We did it 2 weeks ago; myself on my rad/sonic, BK on his en/en (fully pimp'd) and BL on his thermal troller.
It was basically easy street and didn't even take 2:30hrs.
On a pug it can be a debt laiden suck fest, but with a small team of people who pay attention, very worth while.
True, and at Omega, for instance, there were teams that had it done in less than 2 hours. Okay they were characters built specifically for that event, but the point still stands, they stormed through all the tfs at a rate of knots.
We Elfling folk were pleased to crack it in under 3 hours, we were agog when the rest of the results came in :P
I don't wanna save my soul now,
I just wanna lose control,
And even if it takes a lifetime, to learn:
I'll learn!
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Thinking about it some more, 55 for posi?
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That's partly why I was questioning Eden only being 2 earlier...
On larger PuGs I've seen Posi take up to about 7 or 8 hours. Even smaller PuGs of low to middling experience will often take 4 to 6 hours in my experience.
On large teams of experienced players (though not ones who necessarily play together as a team) it'll take maybe 3 to 4 hours.
On small teams of experienced players it'll often only take 2 to 3 hours.
The winning TF Omega team did it in 1h41 iirc (though TF Omega teams had to be 7 + characters).
So let's guess that 60 to 90 min is possible with a purpose built small team...
I'd guess that for Posi you're probably looking at:
* purpose built merit farming teams could earn 55 merits per hour
* average PuGs are probably at about 14 merits per hour
* some poor beggars will be looking at 7-8 merits per hour(or less)... assuming that they don't give up.
Compare that to the Eden Trial. At only 2 merits I'd guess that a lot of farm teams would only be hitting the low PuG level attained from Posi... And a non-specialist team could easily be looking at well under 1 merit per hour.
I really think that recent farming has skewed the devs risk/reward ambitions.
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my toons
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Trap of the Hunter Accuracy/End: 150 Merits
Achilles' Heel: Chance for Resistance Debuff: 150 Merits
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500 merits for pacing of the turtle next?
Datamining for achilles is also off since its way more valuable villainside
I wouldnt mind if this system starts by looking at my contact lists and looking at my task force achievements and automatically backdates some merit badges as I would be rich
I will have a Kin camping Positrons on every server 
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Trap of the Hunter Accuracy/End: 150 Merits
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I think they mean you'll earn 150 merits if you use it
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I see in the US post linked above, that it is only the mission owner who currently gets the merits in the version on test.
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I hope that's a bug. If that's working as intended it'll turn this into a single player game overnight.
"Want to team?"
"Maybe, what do I get out of it?"
"Er, nothing"
...
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That's where you have it completly wrong though. You are treating merits like they are the only reward in the game, not a very minor one, much less significant than xp or inf.
If merits are all you are interested in, you will just do TFs, they give far more merits per hour than story arcs, the system is heavily weighted that way.
The story arc merits are simply there for people who are unable to do TFs for whatever reason.
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The merits for the mission arc owner only worries me a great deal. Yes I take on board the point regarding merits only being one of many rewards and mission arc owners already get the xp/inf bonus and SO already, but they are very minor rewards.
XP/inf and SOs are just a natural consequence of playing the game. Play the game, do other people's missions, do radio missions, badge hunt etc etc and you simply cannot avoid receiving these rewards. However I could play for hours, with the fairest and most reasonable team leader in the game, and not have the opportunity to complete my story arc before I out-levelled it. Meanwhile, others are getting rewards that I am not for the same efforts and time. That isn't me saying I am MORE interested in merits than anything else a good team has to offer. I am simply making the point that, by design, everyone should be receiving the SAME rewards, whether they are "minor" rewards in your own personal opinion or not. Some kind of merit scaling for arcs needs putting in place to bring rewards into line with achievement and in the interests of fairness, in my opinion.
That said, until I have experienced the system extensively myself and see how it affects the game for both myself and others, I won't be writing anything off as a poor addition. Furthermore, I am delighted that the devs are attempting to encourage people to get out and explore as much of the game as possible, even if I am sceptical at this point of the effectiveness of the system they have designed with which to do it.
According to ParagonWiki Positron TF and a few others can be successfully duoed... which are the other TFs? I know I'll get bored of Posi after 20-30 runs... 
And that will be how I handle things for the most part find things I can run through on one of my duos and grind from there. If I can get good at it I'll have a 2nd build specifically for TF grinding.
@The Idea...
IMO No TF/Trial should reward less than what is needed to get a random recipe drop, and if a TF/Trial does then the TF/Trial needs fixing to make it fit in with the paradigm. Add missions/story/difficulty or fix exploits so that no-one is able to run Eden in 20 minutes. Don't penalise those of us who aren't leet farmers for those who are.
I would have thought a high damage scrapper with a -regen support toon would do it well. Two Illusion Rads would cover most alright, being damage and -regen and using the overlap of PA downtimes.
The key thing is just the Duo being able to take down the AVs in the TFs. I'd have thought the STF wasn't and a couple of the SSTFs maybe too tough too, but other than that if you have a DUO that can kill AVs you have a Duo that can take on TFs
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
But if there is just two or 3 of you and everyone else quit the TF, you would be fighting Elite Bosses.
Having said that, I'd be pretty happy to duo most of the AVs in game with me rad/sonic and a mele toon.
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But if there is just two or 3 of you and everyone else quit the TF, you would be fighting Elite Bosses.
Having said that, I'd be pretty happy to duo most of the AVs in game with me rad/sonic and a mele toon.
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Taskforce AVs don't downgrade do they? I was pretty sure they'd always be AVs regardless of how many are on the mish.
Very carefully and/or probably with tongs and gloves.
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But if there is just two or 3 of you and everyone else quit the TF, you would be fighting Elite Bosses.
Having said that, I'd be pretty happy to duo most of the AVs in game with me rad/sonic and a mele toon.
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Taskforce AVs don't downgrade do they? I was pretty sure they'd always be AVs regardless of how many are on the mish.
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Carni is right, even if you're solo on heroic you still get an AV
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
IF i ever get any, i think ill use it as profit.
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Very carefully and/or probably with tongs and gloves.
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Maybe just a cloth to wrap it up in?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I see in the US post linked above, that it is only the mission owner who currently gets the merits in the version on test.
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I hope that's a bug. If that's working as intended it'll turn this into a single player game overnight.
"Want to team?"
"Maybe, what do I get out of it?"
"Er, nothing"
...
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That's where you have it completly wrong though. You are treating merits like they are the only reward in the game, not a very minor one, much less significant than xp or inf.
If merits are all you are interested in, you will just do TFs, they give far more merits per hour than story arcs, the system is heavily weighted that way.
The story arc merits are simply there for people who are unable to do TFs for whatever reason.
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Indeed, and as its not like anyone other than the mission owner gets rewards at the end of the arc at the moment Its them that get the xp/inf bonus and the *admittedly useless* SO at least as far as I know anyway.
Besides unlike a TF a story arc can be joined in with at any time, not very fair to the arc owner if they slog through the whole thing then someone who joins them for the last mission gets the same reward as them. I think that its the fairest way they could do it.
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