How will you handle the new Merit System
By
Blue Rabbit,
Posted on: 2008-11-06 17:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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the simple fact is that teams who do it the 'traditional' way are effectively getting penalised to a great degree.
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This 
When i decide to do a TF i do it for fun and for rewards. I like to know that after a possible long struggle i get rewarded with something that reflects that effort.
Tidgy
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With this merit reward: Who will want to do the Eden trial anyway but the fast way? Will PuGs ever want to just try it?
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It will be done for fun. Farmers won't bother with it for only 2 merits.
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Do PuGs ever "try Eden for fun?" I mean, personally I'd rather have teeth pulled than ever go near it again, but when I did, it was a "get a load of friends together for an Eden Trial" kind of thing not "oh, I think I'll form a PuG and do Eden for fun."
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Maybe it's a shame that the merit reward doesn't contain an extra variable portion that's proportional to the time spent upon the task (e.g. 1 merit per hour). This way at least the hastily thrown together PuG that struggles but keeps at it can still get a reasonable reward for their long slog.
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Yes, that is a shame. I'd love to be able to sit in-mission AFK all day and all return with 12 hours worth of merits accrued.
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Y'know the few people doing that really wouldn't worry me. If people want to earn merits there's plenty of ways to earn them far quicker.
I'd rather see a few people get low level rewards for doing nothing than see people work at a task and get a substandard (almost to the point of being insulting) reward.
I'm sure on this we have differing viewpoints though.
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Would it be the few though? Personally I wouldn't be bothered doing it but people will tend to go with the path of least resistance & most reward.
I think you are seriously overvaluing merits.
Merits can be exchanged for recipes. Recipes are an entierly optional part of the game, that many players don't even bother with. Most set bonuses have only a marginal effect on performance.
Everyone need XP. Everyone needs if, but merits are comepletly ignorable.
I really should do something about this signature.
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With this merit reward: Who will want to do the Eden trial anyway but the fast way? Will PuGs ever want to just try it?
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It will be done for fun. Farmers won't bother with it for only 2 merits.
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Do PuGs ever "try Eden for fun?" I mean, personally I'd rather have teeth pulled than ever go near it again, but when I did, it was a "get a load of friends together for an Eden Trial" kind of thing not "oh, I think I'll form a PuG and do Eden for fun."
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I've done it in PUGs for fun a couple of times.
Personally, I don't understand why anyone would do something in the game for any reason other than for fun.
I really should do something about this signature.
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It will be done for fun.
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I hope so - but a lot of people would rather see numeric ingame rewards than have some unquantifiable reward like 'fun'...
I think that's why you can see PuGs doing nothing but paper/radio missions - they're easy ways to get fast(ish) missions.
It doesn't help that a lot of people still seem to over value xp, and the Eden trial doesn't exactly have a wide xp-earning range.
Simple fact is that some people will be put off doing Eden, and so it may be much harder to get an Eden team together...
Shame, it's been quite fun whenever I've done it.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
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With this merit reward: Who will want to do the Eden trial anyway but the fast way? Will PuGs ever want to just try it?
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It will be done for fun. Farmers won't bother with it for only 2 merits.
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Do PuGs ever "try Eden for fun?" I mean, personally I'd rather have teeth pulled than ever go near it again, but when I did, it was a "get a load of friends together for an Eden Trial" kind of thing not "oh, I think I'll form a PuG and do Eden for fun."
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I've done it in PUGs for fun a couple of times.
Personally, I don't understand why anyone would do something in the game for any reason other than for fun.
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Which is exactly why I don't do most of the TFs. I quite like Hess, and the witch one in Croatoa. Eden was boring. The one time I tried Posi I gave up beofre the end due to time, but it wasn't exactly thrilling me. T/SF's and Trials seem to be a lot of exactly the same kind of mission you nromally get, strung into a story which quite often makes no sense, and extended to the point where it's irritating. I don't find them fun.
That said, I have yet to try the 'more modern' ones, such as ITF or the RWZ one.
PS. Philosophically, I'm sure you 'understand' why they do it, you just don't 'get' why they bother.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
I quite like Eden, one of the first TFs to get an awsome map. ITF and LGTF are well worth doing for good story, interesting battles and unique maps.
I really should do something about this signature.
So can eden be farmed for fast/quick merits? Or is there a timelimit placed on merits earned per tf like the recipe restrictions now?
(not that im going to farm it, if anything i'll be doing the ouroboros arcs since i find them the most fun and interesting)
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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Which is exactly why I don't do most of the TFs. I quite like Hess, and the witch one in Croatoa. Eden was boring. The one time I tried Posi I gave up beofre the end due to time, but it wasn't exactly thrilling me. T/SF's and Trials seem to be a lot of exactly the same kind of mission you nromally get, strung into a story which quite often makes no sense, and extended to the point where it's irritating. I don't find them fun.
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Could well be worth trying the modern ones (statesman, lady grey and imperious) - I think the standard improved heck of a lot.
Before them it is only Katie and Hess that really stand out - and Positron is really only in the game to provide newbies with a bad introduction to TFs! Much the same as the 1st SSTF is there to stop 40+ characters thinking that the shard TFs will be any better than the lower TFs...
A little surprised you found the Eden trial boring though... although it's nowhere near as good as the 3 newest TFs.
All said and done though, they all come down to go there, hit this, go there, click that rinse & repeat. It's just that the newer TFs have some variation in foes/maps/tactics that aren't seen in the rest of the game...
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
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I quite like Eden, one of the first TFs to get an awsome map.
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I think I was too busy being annoyed at the bugs to enjoy the map. It was a while ago.
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ITF and LGTF are well worth doing for good story, interesting battles and unique maps.
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ITF I've said I'll do sometime if there's a group going, but we'll see, not that bothered about dressing up as a roman.
LGTF is going to end up being a must-do, purely for RP reasons. My current main has a backstory of hating the Rikti, and I can probably get a nice team together with the promise of some extended RP. 
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Which is exactly why I don't do most of the TFs. I quite like Hess, and the witch one in Croatoa. Eden was boring. The one time I tried Posi I gave up beofre the end due to time, but it wasn't exactly thrilling me. T/SF's and Trials seem to be a lot of exactly the same kind of mission you nromally get, strung into a story which quite often makes no sense, and extended to the point where it's irritating. I don't find them fun.
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Could well be worth trying the modern ones (statesman, lady grey and imperious) - I think the standard improved heck of a lot.
Before them it is only Katie and Hess that really stand out - and Positron is really only in the game to provide newbies with a bad introduction to TFs! Much the same as the 1st SSTF is there to stop 40+ characters thinking that the shard TFs will be any better than the lower TFs...
A little surprised you found the Eden trial boring though... although it's nowhere near as good as the 3 newest TFs.
All said and done though, they all come down to go there, hit this, go there, click that rinse & repeat. It's just that the newer TFs have some variation in foes/maps/tactics that aren't seen in the rest of the game...
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Nail on the head there. So many of the older ones are like dull Story Arcs. Manticores & Citidels are like Groundhog Day. Posi's and Synapes are little better.
The Lady Grey TF is fun though, a small number of fairly epic missions rather than a huge list of very dull ones.
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I quite like Eden, one of the first TFs to get an awsome map.
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I think I was too busy being annoyed at the bugs to enjoy the map. It was a while ago.
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Done it once only and the map is truely awesome. However im one of those people that got lost falling down those holes and couldnt find my way to the team for the entire duration of the trial
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ITF and LGTF are well worth doing for good story, interesting battles and unique maps.
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Those two, the shards and synapse are the most interesting/fun tfs ingame imo and i'ld always be up for them if i had enough free time. Dont ask why, but i think that all the Phalanx tfs should be like synapse with the GM ambush and such.
Also merits for defeating GMs now? Woot!!! Finally some decent reward! Theyr making this too easy now!
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
I see in the US post linked above, that it is only the mission owner who currently gets the merits in the version on test.
As stated above, this will make teaming with like minded people quite difficult. In some instances you can go and get the same missions, but other contacts have required arcs etc. Will make PUGs a no no for people interested in merrits.
ITF looks good value to me. 25 merrits for a TF you can do in under 90 mins on INV. Big influence and big merits.
Oh and how come the steadfast KB IO costs 2.5 times as much as a karma one.
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The Lady Grey TF is fun though, a small number of fairly epic missions rather than a huge list of very dull ones.
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Which, frankly, I feel is how a TF should be.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
So how many merits do you get for GMs?
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Personally, I don't understand why anyone would do something in the game for any reason other than for fun.
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In my case and when it comes to TF's, depends, some I do for fun, some others I do for accolades and some others because tehre's nothing more to do and when you see in Defiant Events someone arranging a TF I get in no matter what to remind myself there are more people in this game.
I don't have fun while doing Positron or Synapse, but Task Force Commander makes some of my chars more enjoyable.-
Plus the optionality of the recipes is not a valid reason for me, not needed for PvE, agreed, but they make my chars more complete to the point I want them to be, hence recipes and sets are needed for me.
If they are that optional and unneeded, remove them from game, if not removed, don't assume people don't want or to the extent of their character concepts don't need them since the very moment they are available.
Anyway, I am not against the merit system "per se" (tbh, I'm not at this stage even saying I'm against it at all) but I feel that the initial announcement from Positron and his initial intentions when he said (quite approximately) that the merit system should remove the need of farming lots of TF's to get a recipe is not what we're getting.-
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I see in the US post linked above, that it is only the mission owner who currently gets the merits in the version on test.
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I hope that's a bug. If that's working as intended it'll turn this into a single player game overnight.
"Want to team?"
"Maybe, what do I get out of it?"
"Er, nothing"
...
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I see in the US post linked above, that it is only the mission owner who currently gets the merits in the version on test.
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I hope that's a bug. If that's working as intended it'll turn this into a single player game overnight.
"Want to team?"
"Maybe, what do I get out of it?"
"Er, nothing"
...
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The correct answer is
"Fun, friendship and maybe more..."
And watch them run to the hills 
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Could well be worth trying the modern ones (statesman, lady grey and imperious) - I think the standard improved heck of a lot.
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That's probably the best way to tackle it, these 3 TF's are great and what I really wanted on I13 was another TF on par with them, heck, I don't give a toss if from now on we only get 1 issue every 6 months or even longer if each issue delivered a TF the likes of Statesman (even better if cooperative).
Iirc, STF grants 25 merits, if a selected HO (or at least a random one) costs 25 merits or less, I'll be the happiest person in game but, if now I need to do STF two or three times to get 1 random Synthetic HO, I will be sure that this new system sucks for me.
However, I remember doing STF weekly for months with a regular team to the point we had to stop doing it for not getting bored of it, wouldn't like to get bored of what, in my opinion, are the best things to do in this game.-
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I see in the US post linked above, that it is only the mission owner who currently gets the merits in the version on test.
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I hope that's a bug. If that's working as intended it'll turn this into a single player game overnight.
"Want to team?"
"Maybe, what do I get out of it?"
"Er, nothing"
...
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That's where you have it completly wrong though. You are treating merits like they are the only reward in the game, not a very minor one, much less significant than xp or inf.
If merits are all you are interested in, you will just do TFs, they give far more merits per hour than story arcs, the system is heavily weighted that way.
The story arc merits are simply there for people who are unable to do TFs for whatever reason.
I really should do something about this signature.
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STF grants 25 merits, if a selected HO (or at least a random one) costs 25 merits or less, I'll be the happiest person in game but, if now I need to do STF two or three times to get 1 random Synthetic HO, I will be sure that this new system sucks for me.
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HOs/SHOs are not available through the merit system.
I really should do something about this signature.
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STF grants 25 merits, if a selected HO (or at least a random one) costs 25 merits or less, I'll be the happiest person in game but, if now I need to do STF two or three times to get 1 random Synthetic HO, I will be sure that this new system sucks for me.
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HOs/SHOs are not available through the merit system.
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You sure? I mean, I hope they are still available as a regular reward on STF because if now they're only available though Hami Raids, let's hope our fellow players accross the Atlantic keep doing them weekly otherwise the prices will skyrocket for the few available.
Edit: now that I come to think about it, if the enhancement TF reward is still a reward option, maybe they could datamine how many people still choose a SO to remove them from the rewards option (I don't think anybody still chooses them unless by mistake clicking) or at least change them for a regular IO of the appropriate lvl
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In regards to the story arc merits.
How would it work if the merits were awarded between each story arc mission and not just one big lump at the end?
like, a arc that has 4 missions give 6 merits. That equals out at 1.5 merits/mission. so the 2 shortest mishes gives 1 merit while the 2 longer gives 2 each.
Awarded in this manner, anyone who joined anothers arc in progress or would have to leave just before the final mission wuold get the reward they're due for.
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I had considered this idea also but I came up with an easy exploit to take advantage of such a system, and if someone as simple as me can come up with one then there are sure to be people who can come up with an even better, quicker and easier one too.
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Personally, I don't understand why anyone would do something in the game for any reason other than for fun.
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In a way I do agree, but can something that is fun not also have a material gain too? Or does getting such a sordid thing as a material gain spoil the fun?
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I see in the US post linked above, that it is only the mission owner who currently gets the merits in the version on test.
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This worries me as it appears to discourage teaming. Why does the team leader deserve more reward than anyone else in the team (presuming of course that the team is doing the leaders missions; after all he/she gets to choose them). I enjoy pick up groups and this factor may make them more scarce as people may only want to do THEIR missions to achieve these arcs. The only way that this benefits all people in the team is if they all get the exact same story arc at exactly the same time and play through it all together. This may work for an established SG, but for someone who just wants to team casually...? Hmm.
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the simple fact is that teams who do it the 'traditional' way are effectively getting penalised to a great degree.
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No, they aren't. They still get all the xp, inf and most importantly, fun, that they did before.
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With this merit reward: Who will want to do the Eden trial anyway but the fast way? Will PuGs ever want to just try it?
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It will be done for fun. Farmers won't bother with it for only 2 merits.
I really should do something about this signature.