Changes to APPs/PPPs
By
Baby_Phoenix,
Posted on: 2008-09-27 13:25 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Yes, fixed my typo. I just woke up, gimme a break. <_<
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No! How dare you err! Flagellate yourself with this birch branch until you've repented properly 
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It's this de caff coffee making me cranky 
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Decaff coffee? I have to ask why? *Edit, ah I see. Never believe anything you read online.... except for this obviously, I don't want to send you into a paradox loop.
I'm putting my crankyness down to lack of sleep (stupid Fallout 3), lack of ciggies (stupid impending operation), removal of one of the Character Concepts I was looking forward to (stupid other Masterminds hatred of personal attacks), plus my usual sunny personality.
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Then don't drink decaff?
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No, im drinking de caff in an attempt to stop me getting the hump in me office, but it's failing.
Last bit of advice i take from a web site 
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So it won't be long the no becomes a yes
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Yes, fixed my typo. I just woke up, gimme a break. <_<
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No! How dare you err! Flagellate yourself with this birch branch until you've repented properly
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It's this de caff coffee making me cranky
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Decaff coffee? I have to ask why?
I'm putting my crankyness down to lack of sleep (stupid Fallout 3), lack of ciggies (stupid impending operation), removal of one of the Character Concepts I was looking forward to (stupid other Masterminds hatred of personal attacks), plus my usual sunny personality.
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Well ..... i read that drinking de caff can help reduce irritability you see, which believe it or not, even with my usual sunny disposition i do at times suffer from.
Soooo im now on this de caff only for a month kick 
You can also just lessen your intake of caffeine, rather than going all the way without it. I went from two pots a day to 4 or 5 mugs a day.
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You can also just lessen your intake of caffeine, rather than going all the way without it. I went from two pots a day to 4 or 5 mugs a day.
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4 or 5 cups? And that's a cut-down?
i'm not allowed that much any more, I tend to end up like Tweak from South Park if I've has more than 3. I switch to tea instead after 11am.
And to drag it all vaguely back on-topic : I wonder how many MMs are going to be drawn to Melee attacks over Cone AOE ones, even if the melee attacks have a mez component?
Depends on whether or not the new melee attacks still have the abysmal endurance costs (...in return for ignorable damage on a long recharge...) like the Cones did.
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Depends on whether or not the new melee attacks still have the abysmal endurance costs (...in return for ignorable damage on a long recharge...) like the Cones did.
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Well Thunderstrikes figures from earlier in this post don't look particularly overwhelming to be honest. That's a pseudo-AOE though.
Yeah it is a cut down. Cutting down from 12 mugs (1 pot of coffee hold 12 cups or 6 mugs; I drank 2 pots of coffee) to 4 or 5 mugs. Which usually is 3 in the morning and 2 in the early evening.
As for back on topic (which I forgot in my previous derailing sorry), all I can say is that I dislike what I see, but honestly I have to use them to see whether or not I will like it. Just listing numbers doesn't tell me enough.
(Didn't think it was that much coffee though 
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I might give Ovaltine light a try next
Actually reading the US Boards most Powergame type builds seem to say "Get Mace Mastery, as the Defense Shield and Web Grenade are best for a MM". Now that the AOE is being replaced by Power Boost are they just encouraging even more people to choose Mace?
Buh-What!? No, these changes can't be right 
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Weapon Mastery
Targetting Drone (in place of Web Grenade, same stats as FA)
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This is a useful power, how could they replace it? Aren't APPs supposed to add powers to an AT which they couldn't have before? And, naturally, the Scrapper being a melee AT, isn't an ST immob (with -Fly) needed? Not liking this change, it doesn't make sense to me.
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Ice Mastery
Freezing Rain (in place of Ice Storm) -30% Speed for 25 secs, -20% Speed for 25 secs after 10 sec delay, -10% resist/defence for 25 secs, 76 ticks of 0.33 damage
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Argh, I can see why this could be a good change but range AoE damage and control for a Tanker (to me) made this Epic likable 
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Electric Mastery
Conserve Power (in Place of Shocking Bolt)
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...No. Just no. Like I said earlier, APPs were supposed to give them an AT powers to fill in the gaps, powers they couldn't really get in normal sets. So, replacing the ST hold in Elec Mastery for a power you can already get in Energy Manipulation, and not replace a cone attack which Blasters can already get, it just doesn't work.
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Leviathian Mastery
KO Blow (in place of Bile Spray)
108.88 Smashing Damage, Mag 3 Hold
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To me, this is the best PPP for /Poison Masterminds simply because of Bile Spray, now they've taken it away the want to get mine to 41 has gone, and I'm sure others feel the same.
In all, not happy, changing powers to make them work a little different, that's fine, as long as it's still the same power in essence, but completely swapping powers which you have to work hard for to get to towards the end of the game just isn't good, they should either have a vote on the powers or give people a choice between either type of Epic/Patron pool (same way VEATs choose between build types).
To the other changes, pretty sure there're many other players who will not like these as they're all pretty dramatic and most are unneeded.
I am the Blaster, I have filled the role of Tank, Controller and Defender
Sometimes all at once.
Union EU player! Pip pip, tally ho, top hats and tea etc etc
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Unfortunately, the best option we had to improve the pools was to replace the less commonly used powers with powers that should be more useful to a wider range of characters. So, while some characters may have had to give up a power, we made every effort to make better powers available in the pools for each archetype.
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So, for a few specifics about what was added to the sets. There were several popular utility powers that were added to many sets. These include:
* Focused Accuracy
* Conserve Power
* Hibernate
* Force of Nature
* Power Boost.
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Theres something I dont get here, they have monitored the less used powers, fair enough, we knew we could be affected in either a good way for us or in a no good way but
I dont get the criteria to put these other powers as popular (at least some of them), they might be popular on some AT's at certain levels or taken not because of the value of the power itself but as an unlocker to other powers.
Lets take Conserve Power as an example, how is this popular? Lots of Energy Blasters might take it, because it is useful for them or because there are not much better options (specially after the ET/TF nerf), lots of scrappers/tankers might also have it
because they need it? Or maybe because they were aiming for Energy Torrent and didnt need Focused Accuracy / couldnt afford its end usage? Or maybe they didnt have enough slots left for a workable FA and decided to use CP as the mandatory access with just base slot
As I said before, I think it is good they reviewed the less used powers, I just dont think they got the right criteria when substituting them. On same example as above, do now Energy Blasters have the option of 2 x Conserve Power if they go for Electricity Mastery? A bit lame methinks
There are also conceptual reasons why some powers might be taken over others.
Consider Conserve Power. This power is so bland it could fit with pretty much any character, from Natural to Magic. Take Shooting a jet of fire from your finger tips. How many character concepts does that fit with? Far fewer, I'm sure.
IMO, this is badly implemented change, that will tick off an awful lot of people.
they should have either:
a) Only replaced a very small number of extremely unpopular powers
b) Gone to the little bit of extra effort and added a 5th power to each set.
I really should do something about this signature.
At a quick glance this stuff doesnt seem to affect me much. I can only think of 1 of my 50s that's going to be hit by these changes, my ice/MM. Swapping flash freeze for hoarfrost? Not going to help me. I'm already 20'ish HP from the HP cap at all times and I'm losing a purple set with flash freeze going . Think I'll just swap into force mastery then. Not too big of a change really.
Then the positive things. World of confusion for my cold/sonic! Woot! Complete invis (arctic fog + CJ) will be really nifty with WoC, which also takes a delicious cheap purple set
Overall I like these changes. Not sure yet what's going to happen to my fortunata though... (Gloom)
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
Y'know, if NCNC want all types to be able to have access to Conserve Power, Focused Accuracy, Power Boost and such, here's an idea.
Give them to it as inherents from level 41+. A free inherent power for 41, 44, 47 and 49.
I've leveled my Electric Blaster without stamina. I've held out 34 levels for Power Drain, a cool electric looking effect at 35. Then I had Shocking Grasp, Shocking Bolt, Static Discharge, the shield and EMP Pulse ahead of me to round out my character for cool looking powers that I'd be thrilled to use in combat. My character raising her hands and letting out a huge surge of electrical energy, or blasting out with a powerful field. I had concept reasons for taking them!
Or here's an idea, give us more sets. Let people take sets with those 'needed' powers in if they want and you don't want to just -give- us the damn things for free, and keep some sets having cool looking powers. Let us make the choice.
VEAT PPPs are unchanged.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Y'know, if NCNC want all types to be able to have access to Conserve Power, Focused Accuracy, Power Boost and such, here's an idea.
Give them to it as inherents from level 41+. A free inherent power for 41, 44, 47 and 49.
I've leveled my Electric Blaster without stamina. I've held out 34 levels for Power Drain, a cool electric looking effect at 35. Then I had Shocking Grasp, Shocking Bolt, Static Discharge, the shield and EMP Pulse ahead of me to round out my character for cool looking powers that I'd be thrilled to use in combat. My character raising her hands and letting out a huge surge of electrical energy, or blasting out with a powerful field. I had concept reasons for taking them!
Or here's an idea, give us more sets. Let people take sets with those 'needed' powers in if they want and you don't want to just -give- us the damn things for free, and keep some sets having cool looking powers. Let us make the choice.
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Zortel be smart! Deleting powers is a VERY bad move! Add more choices into the APP/PPP and we'll be happy, not keep our epic powers to a minimum. At it stands only 1 or 2 epics appeal to me still.
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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Y'know, if NCNC want all types to be able to have access to Conserve Power, Focused Accuracy, Power Boost and such, here's an idea.
Give them to it as inherents from level 41+. A free inherent power for 41, 44, 47 and 49.
I've leveled my Electric Blaster without stamina. I've held out 34 levels for Power Drain, a cool electric looking effect at 35. Then I had Shocking Grasp, Shocking Bolt, Static Discharge, the shield and EMP Pulse ahead of me to round out my character for cool looking powers that I'd be thrilled to use in combat. My character raising her hands and letting out a huge surge of electrical energy, or blasting out with a powerful field. I had concept reasons for taking them!
Or here's an idea, give us more sets. Let people take sets with those 'needed' powers in if they want and you don't want to just -give- us the damn things for free, and keep some sets having cool looking powers. Let us make the choice.
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Zortel be smart! Deleting powers is a VERY bad move! Add more choices into the APP/PPP and we'll be happy, not keep our epic powers to a minimum. At it stands only 1 or 2 epics appeal to me still.
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I thought that was an alright idea Zortel had there with the inherents.
I think that was more of a case of 'Zortel be smart!' than 'Zortel, be smart!' ... If you can see the difference, that is.
But yes, it seems that there's a popular opinon amongst the devs that everyone needs to have access to these types of powers, so rather than butchering sets and adding in powers that have nothing to do with them, they'd just do the whole Energy Flight/Combat Flight/Shadow Step/Shadow Recall thing the HEATS get, and give us say, Conserve Power, Focussed Accuracy, Power Boost and 'something else' at the higher levels, changed their values and made them unslottable perhaps so people didn't waste precious enhancement slots, and maybe even chuck in Fitness as well.
Fitness I was glad to avoid on my Elec Blaster, y'know? And my TA/Archery defender. Know why? Not because I'm a masochist and love pain, but because I loved being able to take fun, useable, cool looking powers instead of stat upgrades.
"Oh look, I can run a bit faster!" is nothing compared to "Hah, taste my poison gas arrow!" or "High kicking ninja strike attack! KIIIIYAAAH!"
We don't see any other heroes having to decide between jumping a bit higher or throwling bolts of flaming death at an enemy.
Or I know! Scale it! Scale your movement speed, regen and recovery to increase as you go up in levels and get harder/better/faster/stronger through training and experience. The travel-powerless Arrow Azure should be able to sprint a marathon now the amount he runs around the city and jumps across rooftops.
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Fitness I was glad to avoid on my Elec Blaster, y'know? And my TA/Archery defender. Know why? Not because I'm a masochist and love pain, but because I loved being able to take fun, useable, cool looking powers instead of stat upgrades.
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I did try that route yonks ago (all be it on a melee char) but the frustration of having no end to use my spiffing new powers out weighed the fun of having them in the end for me, so i relapsed and got the usual swift, health stamina.
End Red's in all powers that benefit, not running sprint, toggle conservation if any, and damage estimation (Not using a high damage/high endurance attack against a foe with low health) and such.
Been thinking on why Electrical Mastery gets the shaft so badly this morning and the only reason I can come up with is that they're taking it from day one, cause Elec came on after the other APPs so there's a good chance people didn't respec it in on old toons. Otherwise they just hate the players, so I'm going with option 1 instead.
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
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There are also conceptual reasons why some powers might be taken over others.
Consider Conserve Power. This power is so bland it could fit with pretty much any character, from Natural to Magic. Take Shooting a jet of fire from your finger tips. How many character concepts does that fit with? Far fewer, I'm sure.
IMO, this is badly implemented change, that will tick off an awful lot of people.
they should have either:
a) Only replaced a very small number of extremely unpopular powers
b) Gone to the little bit of extra effort and added a 5th power to each set.
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I agree with you that Conserve Power is conceptually harmless, still, as has been stated before, if a character at lvl 41 still NEEDS Conserve Power, there are high chances there's something very wrong in the build, the advantage is that it is a harmless pool opener that might have its occasional uses though.
Still, it puts me off my planned elec/nrg blaster, because I wantd to go elec mastery for EMP Pulse and now not I only don't have it, but I have 2 of same power options while lacking other things more useful imho.-
Edit: Also, has anyone checked changes in Pool Powers? the FA changes make me think that at least tactics has been tweaked. Wouldn't mind seeing Boxing/Kick/Jump Kick/Flurry/Group Teleport/Group Fly/Whirlwind replaced by useful stuff and some tweaks on Presence Pool tbh.-
I've no idea how this will effect my chars but i chose powers that i felt fitted my concepts, if some of the powers are now changing, if its not of a similar effect then this may tint my concept on my chars.
And then no doubt if it dont suit them ill have to respec and try and adapt maybe. But as im at work at mo and not read all the proposed changes or tried it on test might be a bit of a downer if it alters my characters design concept out with my vision.
@Snow.
Defiant: Snow + many other alts
Arc ID 61069
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Then don't drink decaff?
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No, im drinking de caff in an attempt to stop me getting the hump in me office, but it's failing.
Last bit of advice i take from a web site