Changes to APPs/PPPs
By
Baby_Phoenix,
Posted on: 2008-09-27 13:25 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I'm really surprised at how much this agitates me and takes the shine off Issue 13 for me, but unlike in WoW where wide power changes are par of the course, powers in CoH are something... intrinsic to your character. Imagine if someone changed Superman's Heat Vision to something else?
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If they gave him Conserve Power I'd point and laugh
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
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I'm really surprised at how much this agitates me and takes the shine off Issue 13 for me, but unlike in WoW where wide power changes are par of the course, powers in CoH are something... intrinsic to your character. Imagine if someone changed Superman's Heat Vision to something else?
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I agree. Ice Storm suits Carni down to the ground, Frost Breath much less so. Ditto with my Mastermind, Bile spray was just made for his concept. A little weedy half-dead guy isn't going to be going in landing Knockout Punches on enemies.
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Imagine if someone changed Superman's Heat Vision to something else?
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That's where I think the devs fail to see the impact of changes, although I understand some sets need balancing, in this game is trickier because of the Super Hero lore.
I'm pretty sure Spiderman would be lame if instead of crawling walls he flew.-
Yeah, Knock Out Blow for Leviathan Mastery instead of Bile Spray? That was a serious case of what the hell. WHAT THE HELL IS REMOTELY 'LEVIATHAN' ABOUT THAT?!
Does Captain Mako even use Knock Out Blow?!
Sorry for caps rage, but this has just set my teeth on edge. And they gave Ice Mastery in the Controller Pool Frost Breath?!
... But... but... Frozen Rain + Ice Storm! D:
Yeah, MMs are one AT I thought would do well, since thier PPPs where pretty sucky to start with, but how is it going to encorage people to choose a wider range of sets if wone of them has Power Boost, and the others have sucky melee attacks?
I really should do something about this signature.
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Yeah, MMs are one AT I thought would do well, since thier PPPs where pretty sucky to start with, but how is it going to encorage people to choose a wider range of sets if wone of them has Power Boost, and the others have sucky melee attacks?
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Not all sets get that much out of power boost. I'm not going to get it on my /dark MM for example. But I get your point, it's way more powerful for a buff/debuff AT than a melee attack...
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
I know one person who's going to be annoyed at getting Soul Drain removed from Corruptor's Soul Mastery for Power Boost. And Soul Mastery for Masterminds getting a PBAoE minion stunning toggle for people in range with them... even when usually either the henchmen are dealing with them or the mastermind is far out of the range of combat?
Sorry, I'm just not getting this at all.
If the devs were worried about people only choosing a certain type of epic for characters, then... why not give everyone the powers? Or in the case of Scrappers, give them a few more? 3 is the lowest amount that any AT or VEAT has access to, so there's going to be more people going for the 'better' one. Which in this case was Body Mastery.
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And Soul Mastery for Masterminds getting a PBAoE minion stunning toggle for people in range with them... even when usually either the henchmen are dealing with them or the mastermind is far out of the range of combat?
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Not true in all the cases. I can imagine a lot of /dark MMs spending time in melee spamming twilight grasp to keep henchies alive. Least that's what I do on my ninjas/dark MM. For me this is a very useful change
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
Aah, good point, I forgot about that.
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Ice Mastery
* Frost Breath (Replacing ice storm)
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You ... make Cryo .... angry .... you wouldn't like me ... when ... I'm angry ... 
Videos
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* Controller - Primal Forces Mastery - Energy Torrent Replacing power blast, knockdown version
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It gets worse and worse the more I hear about it. As a friend put:
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I look forward to Epics for my controllers because I can pick a decent damage attack - not a cone knockdown that will just attract more aggro and not help me deal with the lieuts i already have locked down
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And Soul Mastery for Masterminds getting a PBAoE minion stunning toggle for people in range with them... even when usually either the henchmen are dealing with them or the mastermind is far out of the range of combat?
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Not true in all the cases. I can imagine a lot of /dark MMs spending time in melee spamming twilight grasp to keep henchies alive. Least that's what I do on my ninjas/dark MM. For me this is a very useful change
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That's what Fluffy is for. His Heal has got a much better AOE that yours 
I agree with you, the Control aura will be nice for some ATs. But they really should have left one or two of the old cone AOEs, for the same reason. To help MMs with poor AOE damage to raise it a bit, to help us fill in gaps in our build.
On the news of the loss of Power Blast to a Grav Kin:
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Them: I can't say as how I have highly requested this for many years.
Me: You mean, you haven't wanted to get rid of your direct damage dealing power for a cone knockdown? :O
Them: More importanly, stop nerfing the [censored] out of my one acccess to decent damage potential as a controller. Cone knockdown. How stunningly not at all useful.
Me: Espeically when AoE Immobilizes and Holds have -Knockdown on.
Them: Bingo! So now I have a power that does nothing, to unaffect the held things I now can't damage!
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Gravs AOE immobs don't prevent Knockdown. Not that that makes its spectacularly better really.
Originally I thought this was a knockdown version of Energys AOE cone attack, which would have been quite cool, not the silly knockdown power.
Ah, must be my holds then, as something was stopping me from knocking enemies about with Propel. Still... need some clairifaction I think. If it just knocks them down instead of back, it's a bit more useful, but not as useful as... y'know, damage from Power Blast.
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Ah, must be my holds then, as something was stopping me from knocking enemies about with Propel. Still... need some clairifaction I think. If it just knocks them down instead of back, it's a bit more useful, but not as useful as... y'know, damage from Power Blast.
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Most Controller sets have it so Holds don't do -knockback and Immobs do, but Gravity is the other way around.
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On the news of the loss of Power Blast to a Grav Kin:
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Them: I can't say as how I have highly requested this for many years.
Me: You mean, you haven't wanted to get rid of your direct damage dealing power for a cone knockdown? :O
Them: More importanly, stop nerfing the [censored] out of my one acccess to decent damage potential as a controller. Cone knockdown. How stunningly not at all useful.
Me: Espeically when AoE Immobilizes and Holds have -Knockdown on.
Them: Bingo! So now I have a power that does nothing, to unaffect the held things I now can't damage!
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I thought that Dark Blast's 'Torrent' was the trivial damage one, every version of 'Energy Torrent' I'm aware of has damage... I took the reference to "the knockdown version of.." to mean it would be like the Scrapper and Tank APP versions of the power which do damage and knockdown instead of the blaster version which does damage and knockback.
@Hakeswell
Union Ilservian, Evinlea
Defiant Expeditor, Hakeswell
Arc: 70119 Hellion Initiation
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On the news of the loss of Power Blast to a Grav Kin:
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Them: I can't say as how I have highly requested this for many years.
Me: You mean, you haven't wanted to get rid of your direct damage dealing power for a cone knockdown? :O
Them: More importanly, stop nerfing the [censored] out of my one acccess to decent damage potential as a controller. Cone knockdown. How stunningly not at all useful.
Me: Espeically when AoE Immobilizes and Holds have -Knockdown on.
Them: Bingo! So now I have a power that does nothing, to unaffect the held things I now can't damage!
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I thought that Dark Blast's 'Torrent' was the trivial damage one, every version of 'Energy Torrent' I'm aware of has damage... I took the reference to "the knockdown version of.." to mean it would be like the Scrapper and Tank APP versions of the power which do damage and knockdown instead of the blaster version which does damage and knockback.
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*checks Red Tomax* Yep. You're right. Power Push is the Energy knockback power, this is the Energy AOE cone with some knockdown instead of knockback, the thing Phantasm casts (but his has knockback 
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That's quite cool actually. It might suit my Grav/TA well.
True. I based my character's concept towards getting Power Blast though, and it's even come up in roleplay. And now she can't get Power Blast. If it's the red version as well, instead of the blue version, even more annoying for me, personally.
This is where multi-builds come in: One decent one from pre-13, and one underwhelming/hideous one post-13.
/e petitions for an option to skip 13 and go straight to 14
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Leviathian Mastery
KO Blow (in place of Bile Spray)
108.88 Smashing Damage, Mag 3 Hold
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To me, this is the best PPP for /Poison Masterminds simply because of Bile Spray, now they've taken it away the want to get mine to 41 has gone, and I'm sure others feel the same.
[/ QUOTE ]I wouldn't. Replacing a VERY slowly animating cone attack that does poor damage on MMs (as opposed to, say, a Crab Spider) and doesn't even graphically match the Poisons powers for thematic purposes, with a mag 3 Hold to stack with Paralytic Poison? Um... How is this bad, again?
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Leviathian Mastery
KO Blow (in place of Bile Spray)
108.88 Smashing Damage, Mag 3 Hold
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To me, this is the best PPP for /Poison Masterminds simply because of Bile Spray, now they've taken it away the want to get mine to 41 has gone, and I'm sure others feel the same.
[/ QUOTE ]I wouldn't. Replacing a VERY slowly animating cone attack that does poor damage on MMs (as opposed to, say, a Crab Spider) and doesn't even graphically match the Poisons powers for thematic purposes, with a mag 3 Hold to stack with Paralytic Poison? Um... How is this bad, again?
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1) It's melee. I don't want to be in melee particularly myself, there's no need for me to be in there usually. An AOE Cone synergies with Fearsome Stare.
2) I've got a hold myself, one in the Lich, one in the perma-Spirit and one in Fluffy. I really don't need any more
3) i've also got 2 AOE Cone fears between me and the pets, I don't really need more control
4) Any AOE damage is welcome, its what my toon is missing, plus it acts as a pseudo-taunt to pull things off Zombies.
5) And most importantly : Concept, concept, concept. A "hard hitting" melee attack makes no sense to a weedy mage possessed/infected by a fragment of a Banished Pantheon embodiment of a primal urge.
I'm both glad that the VEAT PPP aren't affected (yea can still get more spider bots for my crab) and disappointed that they didn't take the opportunity to give VEATS there own PPPs (tho i suppose in some backwards fashion they have as what the VEATs get in i13 will now differ from what brutes get)
Also dose the new version bile spray for brutes still do toxic damage?
What puzzles me about the Brute replacement for Bile Spray is that it sounds like it's going to have -rech in it, which was one of the supposed reasons for them not to get Ice Armor.
I'm really surprised at how much this agitates me and takes the shine off Issue 13 for me, but unlike in WoW where wide power changes are par of the course, powers in CoH are something... intrinsic to your character. Imagine if someone changed Superman's Heat Vision to something else?
SUPPORT - IT'S NOT JUST A GROUPING OF ATs
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More Than a Game
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