PVP Abuse or not, where to draw the line?
By
Ban_Sidhe,
Posted on: 2008-08-10 11:07 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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- When someone is clearly using a 3rd party macro program?
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Not sure how you can tell, but this is against the EULA. If you have evidence and can explain it to a GM's satisfaction, this is petitionable.
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- Being Tp'd out of base entrance and killed, while clearly AFK?
- Being killed, then hunted down repeatedly by the same person when you're a first timer in the zone?
- After being droned once?
- After being droned repeatedly?
- When one side uses a spy on the other side to hunt down someone?
- When one side confuses that spy to take down the other sides second account buffer that's hidden in the base?
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Last I heard, just about everything else is a legitimate tactic if the game lets you do it.
Mind you, I'm not even sure what that last one means... 
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
While there are some degrees i'd go to in a PVP zone i myself do have some morals and i do try to be a good sportsman/women 
TP is a useful tool and i have TP'ed people into crates full of pets in sirens before or into areas that are hard to get out from but thats just a valid tactic as everyone will try to escape but it doesn't stop people complaining.
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- Being Tp'd out of base entrance and killed, while clearly AFK?
- Being killed, then hunted down repeatedly by the same person when you're a first timer in the zone?
- After being droned once?
- After being droned repeatedly?
- When someone is clearly using a 3rd party macro program?
- When one side uses a spy on the other side to hunt down someone?
- When one side confuses that spy to take down the other sides second account buffer that's hidden in the base?
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My Views.
TP while afk - well if the person is AFK in a PVP zone and is visable to everyone its thats persons fault not the TP'er.
Drone TP'ing - I'll admit i have done this in the past, i guess its a valid tactic but is abit underhanded.
Droning repeatedly i just won't do.
3rd party programs = Ban.
Having a spy on the other team is just sly and obviously just someone getting the jollys off kill who*eing.
Personaly i ignore Broadcast when in PVP zones as its just full of smack talk.
Defiant's GoEH/MILITIS METUS
- Being Tp'd out of base entrance and killed, while clearly AFK?
Why is someone AFK in a PvP zone?
- Being killed, then hunted down repeatedly by the same person when you're a first timer in the zone?
It happens. Guess it just gives the wrong (right) impression of PvP
- After being droned once?
Never a viable strategy
- After being droned repeatedly?
See above
- When someone is clearly using a 3rd party macro program?
*blush* am not really sure what that is/how it works
- When one side uses a spy on the other side to hunt down someone?
A tad unfair, but I don't see it as game breaking (as game breaking as PvA- players vs accounts)
- When one side confuses that spy to take down the other sides second account buffer that's hidden in the base?
An exploit
I'm similar sing, pretty high tolerance. FAct of the matter is though, PvP zone = anything goes. If people aren't prepared for it when they enter, after reading the bold red warning , then they'll be educated. Some players expect immunity because of farming/'only here for xp', and most of the time that's a massive red cloth to some quite happy bulls...though some methods are unfair
Some clarification might be in order:
- Personally I never attack anyone unless attack in RV, or if it's clear it's full pvp going on.
- As I said, I'm pretty ok with anything, but loads of people whine about loads of stuff, so I thought I'd mention a few of'em
The only thing I have a problem with, is when it gets personal, when someone hunts down a new lvl 40 PVPer repeatedly and scares them off the whole pvp thing, just pecause they can. While it's clearly not against the policy at the moment, there's a thin, but clear line when that moves beyond pvp and unto harassment. I think it might even actually, when on an extreme scale, be against the law in my country.
I guess it's individual though. I don't mind it personally, but it does sadden me to see people stop PVPing and even leaving the game.
Since I saw that behaviour from two heroes against a new lvl 40 that had never been in RV before, I go to great lengths doing what I can to ruin their experience as well, at any cost, because I think such - repeated - behaviour deserves a(nother) perma ban. It's ruining the game for everyone.
While that makes me a bad person (well, I AM a villain after all, even if NC is making it hard, with all those coop zones) it's now one of those rare things that brings me great joy in-game! 
Problem is as said in past in PvP forum, CoX has no Rules of Engagement or PvP Code of Conduct.Its only EULA.
So thats the only official frame within which something can constitue harassment.
Repeated killing,droning and what not,even smacktalk without really cursing or sending tells is not a violation afaik.
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Since I saw that behaviour from two heroes against a new lvl 40 that had never been in RV before, I go to great lengths doing what I can to ruin their experience as well, at any cost, because I think such - repeated - behaviour deserves a(nother) perma ban.
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I applaud you to be honest.PvP is prolly the only situation i strongly support a goold old saying "Eye for an eye".
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I guess it's individual though. I don't mind it personally, but it does sadden me to see people stop PVPing and even leaving the game.
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Unfortunately PvP in all games is competitive.And has a steeper learning curve than PvE.Its the one situation where what other people people say shouldnt matter especially when trashtalking.Best response is to keep fighting till you eventually start kill them back.
I have a recent example of all this.I am part of a PvP SG.We got 5-8 members and we dont take people in the SG.
The only new person we let in lately after quite a few months is Nicky (Forum name).He wasnt let in for being uber skilled (although he is a good player) but because after being repeatedly annihilated by our SG in team fights.zonal or what not he always got up,dust himself,said good fight and tried again.Earned respect from everyone just for this and i think this is what every new comer should do.You will die a lot at start but as time goes by you will start killing a lot as well in my opinion by observing more experienced player.
And if you are being griefed by being killed by same person simply let him kill you more but keep observing his moves and figure ways to counter them.Cause most of them are one trick ponies.
The above is just my opinion only of course.
Y'know, if I go into a PvP Zone, then that's my call and someone can kill me as much as they like, or are capable of. I don't like it, obviously, since I'm probably there for some reason and they're stopping me doing whatever it is, but that's what PvP Zones are for... PvP. I even enjoy a bit of PvP among friends, "just for the fun of it." I'm not a competitive person, really, so 'competitive PvP' does nothing for me.
What I hate is people crowing over the corpses, or calling you chicken for running from an unbalanced fight (and I suck at PvP, so all fights are unbalanced 
), or swearing at you if you do manage to stab them in the face. It may be better to just ignore stuff like that (and I'm not accusing you or your SG of doing that, Tainted, you actually don't really seem the type), but there's also no actual need to do it. It demonstrates the maturity of a newly spawned earthworm, and it does leave the perpetrator open to petition if they use the wrong words.
I know I'd probably PvP more if I didn't expect the opposition to have an average mental age of three, an expectation I got from observation. (Oh, and it would help if I didn't have to dedicate my entire character and playtime to doing it. Always did agree that some form of switchable PvP build was a good idea. )
Anyhoo, yes, as far as I'm aware, you can petition someone for acting against the EULA, but even there the rules on harassment are a bit more loosely applied than they are in other areas. I mean, I think it's Siren's Call which actively encourages harassment by placing a bounty on the defeat of specific characters... Kind of a signpost that the rules are a little different in PvP Zones.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
Well... Personally, I draw the line as smacktalk... I just don't like it full stop. It's infantile most of the time, often highly insulting, and about as much fun as shoving my head through a blender.
If there was no smacktalk, I would PvP. As there IS, and as there always will be, I rarely PvP.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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you actually don't really seem the type
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I have to actually disagree with you here
One of my problems is i am very competitive person,i enjoy PvP and i am a hothead.I might actually trashtalk in PvP zone but i wont curse or something and will do it with people we compete against,other PvP SG's for example.
Will never trashtalk newcomers tho and will try defend them or help them if someone is trashing them.
Problem is that PvP core value is competition.Is bound to bring out dark sides of people's personalities sometimes.Most people dont like losing even in a game
To be really honest concerning what FFM said i admit i love the chatter going on in broadcasts when it sparks up more competition.When it crosses the line though i can understand that for casual players or people in the zones with different purpose in the zone its not appealing and they try steer clear from it.
I guess would be wise to remove broadcasts when entering.
The only thing that really annoys me is when people classify PvPers as uneducated or with any other characterization because they PvP or because they met one idiot or two that made their life miserable in a PvP zone.
In PvP its easier bound to come across stupidity because its a competition and noone likes losing to other people i guess.
Not that PvE doesnt have the same amount of idiots in my opinion.
Anyway about the broadcast issue,we had a discussion the other day about this thing some people expressed an opinion that villain/hero communication in PvP zones should be turned off in all forms.
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Anyway about the broadcast issue,we had a discussion the other day about this thing some people expressed an opinion that villain/hero communication in PvP zones should be turned off in all forms.
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I actully use the broadcast to tell if a stalker is near me. Of course it does require the stalker to talk but still . . . . .its a good way of knowing you have to move faster
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
Depends on how you look at it. Im a "Core PvP'er" but i often stay quiet in zones. Let my actions do the talking. My personal beliefs in a PvP Zone are to treat someone as you would treat yourself. If you treat someone bad expect them to return the favour.
I have to admit the banta in a PvP does put me off, I hate the "I pwn you gud" talk i know plenty of people that feel the same. I always advise people to turn off Broadcast in PvP Zones. Saves stupid comments and silly issues.
Ofcourse theres plenty of people that welcome the banta! so either way i figure if i keep myself to myself ill be fine!
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The only thing that really annoys me is when people classify PvPers as uneducated or with any other characterization because they PvP or because they met one idiot or two that made their life miserable in a PvP zone.
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My own dislike of PvPers stems from my days running a NWN server and, actually, I don't dislike PvPers, I dislike PKers. There used to be a difference. Maybe there still is.
Most of the regular PvPers on the server were competitive, sure, and they trash talked some, but it was generally "good natured banter" and you could set it aside.
Then we would get the pillocks who came in (not always, but often, on hacked characters) for the express purpose of killing characters specifically to ruin the player's game. That's a PKer. They had guilds, they would invade en-mass. I would go in on a GM character and blast their bones out if it was a mass, or on a specially scripted character if it was just one. They always hated getting smushed by an apparently normal character more than a GM character.
Anyway, that was my education in the various different types of PvPers, and I learned to differentiate the two, so I don't make generalisations.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Well... Personally, I draw the line as smacktalk... I just don't like it full stop. It's infantile most of the time, often highly insulting, and about as much fun as shoving my head through a blender.
If there was no smacktalk, I would PvP. As there IS, and as there always will be, I rarely PvP.
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You ain't got no game? 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Competition is always going to be a factor in a multiplayer game. Competition brings smack-talk, if you don't like it - but like PvP, ignore it and carry on. I personally quite like competition, it motivates people and raises the stakes. I don't PvP in CoX at the moment, I wouldn't mind giving it a proper go though.
As I understand it the whole thing with implementing PvP was a fail and now you have all kinds of goings on now to make it an epic fail.
Take oneself to a Boxing Gym or some Martial Arts club and join the real men doing what real men do, learn some self defense and take part in some proper fights where if your good like me, you tour the world and make some money.
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As I understand it the whole thing with implementing PvP was a fail and now you have all kinds of goings on now to make it an epic fail.
Take oneself to a Boxing Gym or some Martial Arts club and join the real men doing what real men do, learn some self defense and take part in some proper fights where if your good like me, you tour the world and make some money.
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Wait, your playing a super hero game too Kokuryu? 'if your good like me' Your modesty leaves something to be desired too. We prefer tro'in fiyar to Martial Arts anyway, what's the problem? Just to clarify, why do you feel the need to blatently post derogatory comments in every thread you post in Kokuryu?
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As I understand it the whole thing with implementing PvP was a fail and now you have all kinds of goings on now to make it an epic fail.
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Your understanding is incorrect
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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As I understand it the whole thing with implementing PvP was a fail and now you have all kinds of goings on now to make it an epic fail.
Take oneself to a Boxing Gym or some Martial Arts club and join the real men doing what real men do, learn some self defense and take part in some proper fights where if your good like me, you tour the world and make some money.
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Wait, your playing a super hero game too Kokuryu? 'if your good like me' Your modesty leaves something to be desired too. We prefer tro'in fiyar to Martial Arts anyway, what's the problem? Just to clarify, why do you feel the need to blatently post derogatory comments in every thread you post in Kokuryu?
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It's called retirement. The thing that PvPers do best is put non-PvPers off as I understand it and the game wasn't too balanced neither.
My personal pet hate is the multi-account abuse, using a pocket fender to gain the upper hand thats safetly tucked away in hero base, and finding the person you are about to defeat gets teleported away by the pocket fender to safety and to get rebuffed to the eye balls. Not keen on the idea of having to fight two or three accounts from one player, destroys the object of player vrs player.
Of course some say it is allowed and does not break any rules. As there is no rules as such the idea of fair play no longer exists in this world with some select people and sadly i find it is mostly hero players that have this warped sense of morals.
My personal opinion as it stands, such players should be given multiple warnings then banned for their abuse of multiple accounts.
(The above is directed at a couple of people that do use multiple accounts to "Win", not the whole player base of CoH)
One of the leaders of the Harlequins villain group and currently on defiant.
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My personal opinion as it stands, such players should be given multiple warnings then banned for their abuse of multiple accounts.
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Well that sucks for all the married/cohabitant couples/families/flatmates.
Nice how you obviously picked out the wording to suit what your saying. One person with two accounts that constantly mentions over broadcast and other channels he has mulitple accounts to buff his fighting character. Hope that makes it a little clearer
One of the leaders of the Harlequins villain group and currently on defiant.
It's pretty hard to bounce between multiple accounts and actively PvP. Unless you're right near the hospital, but then - more fool for you fighting near the hospital.
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It's pretty hard to bounce between multiple accounts and actively PvP. Unless you're right near the hospital, but then - more fool for you fighting near the hospital.
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Not realy if you have the time and the inclanation 1 account only buffs and recalls when your in trouble. 2 PC'S buffer set up with a macro to tp you back with touch of a single button. You could even run 2 accounts on 1 pc and use a 3rd account as your attack account on another pc. Double the buffs or 2 diffrent types of buffs either would give you a massive advantage. 2 empaths buffing the hell out another toon will make that toon god like. The other thing which would be possable is a time set to recall so if you know how long the buffs will last you will get automaticaly recalled befor they run out and if you have prompt tp on you would not have to miss out on a kill if close to 1. Humm it may be possable I do say may be to have a program running that will recognise when your health bar gets below a certain lvl and again auto tp back to base. This is something you would have to ask somebody like sing who would know if this is possable.
And something like that would violate the EULA, I'm pretty sure. But not because of multiple account.
And by " actively PvP" I mean spontaneously moving around the zone and engaging.
True that would be difficult but if your using 2 or 3 accounts the idea is to just use 1 toon to attack. As for the programing being against the rules they probably are but you would need to prove it is being done that way. The GM's maybe able to but as a player it would be impossable to tell so there would be noway of knowing. You could tell a GM you susspect this is the case but would they be intrested enough to do something about it.
While I don't enjoy pvp much, I've spent some time in RV lately on different alts (Defiant) and witnessed different more or less funny behaviour. I know this discussion has been up before, but where's the limit? When is it worth petitioning a behaviour (aside from foul language)
- Being Tp'd out of base entrance and killed, while clearly AFK?
- Being killed, then hunted down repeatedly by the same person when you're a first timer in the zone?
- After being droned once?
- After being droned repeatedly?
- When someone is clearly using a 3rd party macro program?
- When one side uses a spy on the other side to hunt down someone?
- When one side confuses that spy to take down the other sides second account buffer that's hidden in the base?
Personally I have a very high tolerance, and even if I despise some of the people using this and other techniques, I defend their rights to be (cencored cencored).
I'd like to hear what you think is ok/not ok, and also what's really, actually not officially ok. True, I haven't really bothered to look, but are there any clear rules about what's NOT allowed? Have you seen any other behaviour that you think should be "dealt with"?
So, what say you?