PVP Abuse or not, where to draw the line?
By
Ban_Sidhe,
Posted on: 2008-08-10 11:07 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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How do I get the various badges and things in a PvP zone if I'm primarily a PvE person and want, say, an accolade power?
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You go in and you do it. Like I did.
What you don't do is complain you were attacked while PvEing in a PvP zone. It's one of the hazards of PvP Zones, one that they remind you of every time you enter one of the creepy places.
Should badge gathering content have been put into PvP zones, knowing that many 'badgers' don't like it? Yes, because it's unfair to deny the PvPers stuff just because someone who religiously collects badges won't like it.
I don't really like PvP either, but I have all the PvP Zone exploration badges and a few of the other ones. As far as I recall, I was never attacked while hunting them, by the way.
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Why would it be denying PVPers if the accolades were gained from pure PVE?
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Let me rephrase then. Why should you deny PvPers from having content such as Badges simply because a minority group collect all Badges and don't like PvP?
Which Accolade are we talking about here, btw?
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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How do I get the various badges and things in a PvP zone if I'm primarily a PvE person and want, say, an accolade power?
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You go in and you do it. Like I did.
What you don't do is complain you were attacked while PvEing in a PvP zone. It's one of the hazards of PvP Zones, one that they remind you of every time you enter one of the creepy places.
Should badge gathering content have been put into PvP zones, knowing that many 'badgers' don't like it? Yes, because it's unfair to deny the PvPers stuff just because someone who religiously collects badges won't like it.
I don't really like PvP either, but I have all the PvP Zone exploration badges and a few of the other ones. As far as I recall, I was never attacked while hunting them, by the way.
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Why would it be denying PVPers if the accolades were gained from pure PVE?
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Let me rephrase then. Why should you deny PvPers from having content such as Badges simply because a minority group collect all Badges and don't like PvP?
Which Accolade are we talking about here, btw?
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Villain accolade Born in Battle which give 5% endurance boost requires the badge you get for spending a total of 5 hours in Sirens Call. Can't quite get the name of the badge where I am posting from as wiki page is blocked.
There are also a few explorer badges that cover that and another accolade badge.
I know most of this off the top of my head as I am trying to get all the accolades for my Lv 50 Brute that increases health and endurance.
Personally the badges from the PVP zones don't bother me really. The expolorer badges were a case of in and out quickly before being roped into a fight. The 5 hours in Sirens will be awkward but do-able for me.
Its the 10 million damage badge that has me freaked out at achieving! 
Credit goes to FrankyT49 for animated avatar
List of toons on Union Handbook
Leon Tasker: "Dunelm Group! What is your profession?"
Dunelm Group: "OOOOORRRAAAAH!"
So even if someone specifically tells the zone that they are not interested in PvP they are to be ignored and ganked. Full stop. The end. You don't care if they don't fight back. You don't care, that you don't get anything for stomping on someone. You just don't care about the player on the other end of the character.
Hmmmmm. Sounds familiar. It's not a particularly spectacular leap of inference, so I won't say it. But that's what the PvP zones amount to if you enter them but don't want to PvP.
And as for denying the PvP'ers content. That's complete rubbish. The content is just as viable from any other zone. The only thing in the PvP zones that is directly attributable to those zones is reputation. Which, Tah Dah! Expires over time.
Union: @Ban-Sidhe
I'm probably the worse culprit for getting wound up in pvp zones, I don't mind really, we know what pvp zones are about and what to expect...
but to be honest i like it with a little tension. Means everyone raises their game.
We can pretty much say that no one leaves the room crying because of smacktalk, but it does have the effect on making players even more determined for their revenge, and when you finally get to kill that thorn in your side ;P "malb" for instance it makes the win so much sweeter because it means something to you. Now i love seeing that Rad/Cold Corruptor in Sirens cause i know i have a challenge ahead of me =D
but, to the OP points...
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- Being Tp'd out of base entrance and killed, while clearly AFK?
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If you are resting while AFK you cannot be TP'd :P simple solution.
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- Being killed, then hunted down repeatedly by the same person when you're a first timer in the zone?
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Pvp is like a complex game of Rock,Paper,Scissors.. every toon has a weakness, find it and exploit. :P
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- After being droned once?
- After being droned repeatedly?
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Been there, either stay out of range of enemy base, or carry some oranges...
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- When someone is clearly using a 3rd party macro program?
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Never heard of this to be honest, and how do you tell ?
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- When one side uses a spy on the other side to hunt down someone?
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Its pvp,,, don't stay still.
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- When one side confuses that spy to take down the other sides second account buffer that's hidden in the base?
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Hehee, i have done this, great fun at the time... but sadly no longer works since confuse was changed in a recent patch.
Carlsberg don't do Farming,
But if they did..........
Oh as for this........
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How do I get the various badges and things in a PvP zone if I'm primarily a PvE person and want, say, an accolade power? I have ZERO interest in PvP, but I have to put up with being hounded by idiots who ignore a simple "Please, I'm just here to get a badge" broadcast? I'm not a sore loser. I don't WANT to be in the zone, but I have no choice.
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This however does wind me up, people who are in Zones for a badge.
The Idea of a badge is that it proves you have accomplished something... The Raider badge is part of the "born in battle" accolade, not "born hiding in base" accolade.
So a tell that says "im only here for a badge" is an insult to my pvp nature and makes me want you more! xD
Carlsberg don't do Farming,
But if they did..........
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The only thing in the PvP zones that is directly attributable to those zones is reputation. Which, Tah Dah! Expires over time.
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Anything in a PvP zone is PvP content, even if it can be done without PvPing - if content exposes you to the risk of PvP, then it's PvP content, and so it usually has a slightly higher reward.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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So even if someone specifically tells the zone that they are not interested in PvP they are to be ignored and ganked. Full stop. The end. You don't care if they don't fight back. You don't care, that you don't get anything for stomping on someone. You just don't care about the player on the other end of the character.
Hmmmmm. Sounds familiar. It's not a particularly spectacular leap of inference, so I won't say it. But that's what the PvP zones amount to if you enter them but don't want to PvP.
And as for denying the PvP'ers content. That's complete rubbish. The content is just as viable from any other zone. The only thing in the PvP zones that is directly attributable to those zones is reputation. Which, Tah Dah! Expires over time.
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.
How many times is this going to be repeated? There are warnings in big red bold letters when you enter a PvP zone, but in case you missed them / ignored them / didn't think they applied to you, I'll repeat them here.
THIS IS A PVP ZONE. THAT STANDS FOR PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER. YOU WILL BE ATTACKED BY OTHER PLAYERS. IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO BE ATTACKED BY OTHER PLAYERS DO NOT ENTER THE ZONE.
I'm not a PvPer, but if I go into a PVP zone for badges, I expect to get attacked by other players.
So should you.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
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I'm not a PvPer, but if I go into a PVP zone for badges, I expect to get attacked by other players.
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Wooo ! someone that gets it, hallelujah !
Carlsberg don't do Farming,
But if they did..........
First off, I looked up that Accolade. Yes, that was extremely stupid of Cryptic. It was obviously designed to push people into the the PvP Zones (Lanista is 5 hours in Siren's Call, Swashbuckler needs History plaques in Siren's Call and Booty Bay) and it should, frankly, be fixed. There aren't, too my knowledge, any hero-side Accolades which require PvP badges.
Personally, I'd petition it as a game design flaw. If I ever get a villain to the point where I could get that badge, I will petition it.
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So even if someone specifically tells the zone that they are not interested in PvP they are to be ignored and ganked. Full stop. The end. You don't care if they don't fight back. You don't care, that you don't get anything for stomping on someone. You just don't care about the player on the other end of the character.
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You can yell at me all you want. I don't go into PvP Zones to gank people. There would be little point since it's highly likely that I would be the gankee. Personally, I would not repeatedly attack someone anyway because... well, I see no point in it.
So, you ranting at me really doesn't bother me in the least. Since I know that your use of the term 'you' indicates to me that you didn't actually read a thing I wrote and are just ranting incoherently.
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Hmmmmm. Sounds familiar. It's not a particularly spectacular leap of inference, so I won't say it. But that's what the PvP zones amount to if you enter them but don't want to PvP.
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I'm afraid you'll have to actually say it. I don't have a clue what you're talking about since I enter PvP Zones once in a blue moon, nor do I have the metality of a PKer, nor of yourself either. Actually, my main problem is that I have a horrible ability to see both sides of an argument and I dislike unreasoned hatred.
(As an aside, I decided that the Hyper Stealth power would be darned useful on my new Scrapper, so I did a patrol mission in Bloody Bay. Didn't get attacked by any players. Took precautions, just in case. Got my power.)
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And as for denying the PvP'ers content. That's complete rubbish. The content is just as viable from any other zone. The only thing in the PvP zones that is directly attributable to those zones is reputation. Which, Tah Dah! Expires over time.
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No, you are complaining about an obviously PvE applicable Accolade with an effect which requires you to get one clearly PvP badge, and to enter two PvP Zones for another badge. Now, I have said above I think that is wrong, and in fact now I think about it I'm pretty sure that this kind of thing was very specifically ruled out when CoV was busy launching and PvP was being put into the game. But that is one Accolade which needs to be fixed.
There are plenty of badges which are specifically PvP related, and the exploration badges in those zones technically count among them. So do the badges for running PvE missions in PvP Zones. The more specific case of Badgers complaining that they get attacked in PvP Zones while trying to get that kind of badge (which have no utility in-game, only 'bragging rights') I do not agree with.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
I can go one better I just don't go into PvP zones now. Let those who wish to PvP do so. I'll just carry on as my SG leader says playing half a game but I'm happy. 
Happy to be on Defiant.
Global name @mereman
Member of P.E.R.C. Representing Defiant
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Oh, sigh, this thread has gone completely side-tracked, as expected.
My original point was, of course a pvp zone is a pvp zone, anything else is rediculous and not worth discussing. I'm THE top villain badge hunter in Europe and I accept that, so if I can, anyone should, or find something else to do.
However: Even in a no-rules, gank-all situation, is there any sort of behaviour that is so god-golly-good-damn evil and wrong it should get petitioned - apart from foul language.
The ONLY thing where I personally draw the line is when a completely innocent, fairly newbish player enters the zone to try it out, have some fun, and gets bullied by a lvl 50, top-slotted, 3-account empath buffed idiot for hours just because he can. That's not pvp, that's not playing the game, that's pure harassment and I'd gladly team up with anyone to gank such idiots repeatedly. (I bet anyone that's ever been in Defiant RV knows what I'm talking about!) :P
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(I bet anyone that's ever been in Defiant RV knows what I'm talking about!) :P
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*nod*
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(I bet anyone that's ever been in Defiant RV knows what I'm talking about!) :P
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*nod*
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I don't - and I'm in there quite a lot
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I just thought I'd put in my bit:
I have to say I agree with Fosca's original post. I can't say that I 'announce' my presence in the zone, but if I do run into a villain, I'll probably ensure that they're not going to mistake my presence for PVP.
A *lot* of the time I find myself working in tandem with a villian in RV to clear pillboxes. Just because you see a villain, or they shoot you, doesn't mean everything is now PVP - they may just be concerned that you're there to stop their badge-work. That's what I've found a *lot* of the time.
Of course, there are many other times when I go into the zone for a bit, and get mashed repeatedly by a stalker. Yes, it's frustrating, and yes, it's possible that the OP had a point - there are little rewards for killing l'il old me 100 times in ten mins (no GG, this HASN'T actually happened - I'm exaggerating to make a point) and it may feel like harassment. Sometimes I check to see if they would let me be - sometimes you get the 'it's a PVP zone' response, to which I reply 'that's fair, I was just checking!', and other times they let me go about my business after the first kill. People aren't *that* uncivil, and as long as you accept that they *can* mash you as much as they want, then you can just get on with other things in game - the CoH world is certainly big enough to keep you busy!
I think it was Coin that said 'I vote with my feet and leave the zone' - that, I agree with. The data-mining that the devs to to see which zones are used and how much, is how they work out what needs changing. PVP zones are no different. Since I'm not a huge PVP-er, I only go to the zones for the badges - once I've gotten the last pillbox badge in RV and the final 400 rep badge (probably from farming friendly heroes in WB) then I'm done with PVP zones. However, I understand the risk that is involved going into them - as GG said in her post. It's truly a 'HAZARD' zone, and if you feel you are going to get knocked about, go prepared. Temp Power Buffs from base? Inspirations? Temp powers in the SC entrance? They are all there to help you out. If you fly in there without any kind of protection, and you get squished by a PVP veteran - well, that wasn't very good 'hero' thinking.
It's a game. An MMORPG. The 'RPG' is the bit people overlook. If I were my character, and I needed to go to RV for whatever reason, I would KNOW of its reputation, as we do here. I would KNOW of the risk of getting overrun by villains, as we do here. I would take it all into account, and I would choose. If it didn't seem worth it, I wouldn't go. What happens in PVP may seem ... 'harsh', but as many of you have said - you are 'villains'. In my semi-rpg'd mind, I simply say "Well, he's a psycho that goes around beating up heroes" - I don't attribute it to the player, I just place it on the character. It just makes it a bit more 'real'. For the heroes that smash villains over and over again - well, it may seem extreme, but as any good 21st century 'hero', I turn a blind eye to that since it does me no harm.
Of course, that's all just my opinion.
[B][COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]@Winter Flare[/COLOR] - [url="http://sites.google.com/site/thenewguardians"] The New Guardians[/url] - [url="http://www.badge-hunter.com/index.php?/page/view_player.php?id=339"] 1211 Badges [/url][/B]
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there are little rewards for killing l'il old me 100 times in ten mins (no GG, this HASN'T actually happened - I'm exaggerating to make a point)
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I know - IOs now mean it'd take 12 minutes
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I believe it was Rockjaw who said these very important words.
"It's player versus player, not a player hug player."
Remember that folks. You go in there, you're gonna get attacked. Like I said before, the ONLY thing that annoys me about PvP is the often moronic and usually childish smacktalk. Hence, I don't go into PvP zones, even though I've been known to have fun with it.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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(I bet anyone that's ever been in Defiant RV knows what I'm talking about!) :P
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*nod*
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I don't - and I'm in there quite a lot
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If only you could log in about 2-3Hours earlier :P
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You go in there, you're gonna get attacked.
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I have to disagree. I rarely get attacked in PvP zones. By other players anyway. When I die in RV it's because I've taken X pillboxes and two signature villains come out of the woodwork and turn me into a smear on the tarmac.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
Once again:
This is not about pvp or not pvp in pvp zones. PLEASE return to the topic people:
What do you consider such a bad behaviour even in a pvp zone that it's worth petitioning?
Extreme verbal abuse, as opposed to banter. Everything else is a viable game or play mechanic and has been said as such by representatives of game support staff both sides of the pond.
Can we have a player hug player zone? Would be great for when you're online at 3am after the clubs are shut and everyone in the world is your bestest friend
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
Hey I'm an ideas man, not a developer, that's someone elses problem
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
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Once again:
This is not about pvp or not pvp in pvp zones. PLEASE return to the topic people:
What do you consider such a bad behaviour even in a pvp zone that it's worth petitioning?
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Perhaps part of the reason that people have gone along these lines is that they see being attacked in a PVP zone when they're just there for badges or PVE content as "abuse". In other words, "I'm in a PVP zone. I'm not here for PVP, but I'm being PVP'd against my will. This is therefore abuse".
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
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How do I get the various badges and things in a PvP zone if I'm primarily a PvE person and want, say, an accolade power?
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You go in and you do it. Like I did.
What you don't do is complain you were attacked while PvEing in a PvP zone. It's one of the hazards of PvP Zones, one that they remind you of every time you enter one of the creepy places.
Should badge gathering content have been put into PvP zones, knowing that many 'badgers' don't like it? Yes, because it's unfair to deny the PvPers stuff just because someone who religiously collects badges won't like it.
I don't really like PvP either, but I have all the PvP Zone exploration badges and a few of the other ones. As far as I recall, I was never attacked while hunting them, by the way.
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Why would it be denying PVPers if the accolades were gained from pure PVE?
I's not like there is an option at the start that gives you an instant level 50 pvp spec character.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.