PVP Abuse or not, where to draw the line?
By
Ban_Sidhe,
Posted on: 2008-08-10 11:07 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Because for some pie-faced reason the devs put PVE content in the PVP zones?
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So either go to the PvP zone and fight back when you're attacked, or suck it up and forego the badges.
I don't much care for PvP -- but when I'm in a PvP zone hunting for badges, I accept the PvP as a cost of admission and when I'm attacked I try to at least make it as much of a challenge for the attacker as I can. Anything else would be rude and poor sportsmanship.
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Or y'know don't fight back and after the first time they attack you, any further attacks are evidence of their childish nature?
Or are you saying we should join in with any sport we encounter in life? Even if we find it pointless, unfun or even distasteful?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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Or are you saying we should join in with any sport we encounter in life? Even if we find it pointless, unfun or even distasteful?
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When you've signed up for the sporting event, yes. And for PvP you sign up for PvP by entering the zone.
Entering a PvP zone and then refusing to take any part in PvP is rather like entering a softball field and sitting down to have a picknic, refusing to move when people want to play softball there. Your presence is disturbing the game. You're in the wrong. If you don't want to play, please get out of the field. If you want to stay in the field, please take part in the game.
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Or are you saying we should join in with any sport we encounter in life? Even if we find it pointless, unfun or even distasteful?
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When you've signed up for the sporting event, yes. And for PvP you sign up for PvP by entering the zone.
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No, in entering a PvP zone you've acknowledged that you're open to PvP attacks (not that you have any choice).
That doesn't oblige you to go out and hit people though, any more than logging in to the game and opening yourself to chat and team invites obliges you to answer back or join teams.
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No, in entering a PvP zone you've acknowledged that you're open to PvP attacks (not that you have any choice).
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The choice bit comes from actually entering the zone.
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Or are you saying we should join in with any sport we encounter in life? Even if we find it pointless, unfun or even distasteful?
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When you've signed up for the sporting event, yes. And for PvP you sign up for PvP by entering the zone.
Entering a PvP zone and then refusing to take any part in PvP is rather like entering a softball field and sitting down to have a picknic, refusing to move when people want to play softball there. Your presence is disturbing the game. You're in the wrong. If you don't want to play, please get out of the field. If you want to stay in the field, please take part in the game.
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Actually it'd closer to entering a vast park (PVP zone) to get some ice cream (badges), while there is a sporting event going on. Now unlike your example, entering the zone in no way hinders others, however by forcing you to take part in an event, despite you not wanting, despite you not actively taking part in said sporting event, they are hindering you.
Lets take it a step further, does some one entering the zone purely to acquire Shivians or Warburg nukes effect your PVP experience, if they aren't fighting back and just trying to get on with the PVE aspect of the zone?
The pillboxes in RV? That may have a slight effect on your PVP experience if your relying on be able to hide or TP foes in to your sides friendly mobs.
Now the missions of course do have an effect, but then giving lack of Travel power suppression in the zones, your going to have a hard time stopping them from going from mission to mission.
So what your saying is that despite their being stuff in the zones designed for PVE game play, your going to attack anyone you can, even if they provide no challenge?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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If on part of the equation of player versus player, isn't competing then its not actually PvP.
[/ QUOTE ]The word versus simply means opposition, not necessarily mutual action.
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If on part of the equation of player versus player, isn't competing then its not actually PvP.
[/ QUOTE ]The word versus simply means opposition, not necessarily mutual action.
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If the other person isn't playing then he does not equal a player?
So in effect you'd be PVAFKing
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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No, in entering a PvP zone you've acknowledged that you're open to PvP attacks (not that you have any choice).
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The choice bit comes from actually entering the zone.
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Exactly. 
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So what your saying is that despite their being stuff in the zones designed for PVE game play
[/ QUOTE ]Your interpretation of the design is wrong. That content is there to enhance the PvP experience.
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So what your saying is that despite their being stuff in the zones designed for PVE game play, your going to attack anyone you can, even if they provide no challenge?
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I dont know if he's saying that, but i cant for the life of me see what people are moaning for if they get attacked in a pvp zone.
If you want a badge/shivan/nuke bad enough, go and get them at a time the zone is empty (thats about 20 hours out of 24)
If you cant be bothered to do that suck up the killings and stop whining about it.
Thats directed at whiners in general, not Cactus by the way
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If on part of the equation of player versus player, isn't competing then its not actually PvP.
[/ QUOTE ]The word versus simply means opposition, not necessarily mutual action.
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If the other person isn't playing then he does not equal a player?
So in effect you'd be PVAFKing
[/ QUOTE ]If they're standing there afk, then yes. If they're actually doing stuff, then hardly.
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So what your saying is that despite their being stuff in the zones designed for PVE game play, your going to attack anyone you can, even if they provide no challenge?
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I dont know if he's saying that, but i cant for the life of me see what people are moaning for if they get attacked in a pvp zone.
If you want a badge/shivan/nuke bad enough, go and get them at a time the zone is empty (thats about 20 hours out of 24)
If you cant be bothered to do that suck up the killings and stop whining about it.
Thats directed at whiners in general, not Cactus by the way
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Hey I'm just doing a thesis on what it is about PVP that turns people in heartless baby eaters with the part of human nature that allows us to live and let live.
Well I'm not actually writing a thesis I'm just wondering what the justification for attacking some one who isn't putting up a challenge, isn't negatively effecting the challenge of other fights in the zone and is just trying to get on with the other purposes of the zone is?
And while 'Because they are there!' is an acceptable answer it does make you seem well a bit of a dick.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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If on part of the equation of player versus player, isn't competing then its not actually PvP.
[/ QUOTE ]The word versus simply means opposition, not necessarily mutual action.
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If the other person isn't playing then he does not equal a player?
So in effect you'd be PVAFKing
[/ QUOTE ]If they're standing there afk, then yes. If they're actually doing stuff, then hardly.
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If they don't fight back, they aren't taking part in PVP, hence it becomes the same as attacking an AFKer.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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And while 'Because they are there!' is an acceptable answer it does make you seem well a bit of a dick.
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I'd have to say its the person whining about being killed in a pvp zone that looks the dick, id say the person doing the killing looks like, well, someone doing a bit of pvp'ing in a pvp zone.
To be honest guys one of the ways around it would be to give minimal/no exp for killing a player who is not retaliating but they could not fight out of spite and also if there is one accidental attack thats an unfair penalisation. For those saying about badges and other things in the pvp zone..... they are there for that reason to get you to fight other people, its good to get you away from the same areas and grinding (not accusing anyone here but im sure thats the case with some people) there are a lot of different veiws which just cant be met with one game so im going to try to enjoy it as much as i can
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No, in entering a PvP zone you've acknowledged that you're open to PvP attacks (not that you have any choice).
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Yes, "signing up for PvP." Signing up for the London Marathon doesn't mean you have to try and win it -- it's acceptable to join it for the excersise -- but you should respect that it is a race. If you don't intend to run at all, don't sign up.
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That doesn't oblige you to go out and hit people though,
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PvP zones are intended for competitive play. When we enter an area set aside for a game, common courtesy, not the EULA, obliges us to take at least some part in the game or stay out. To insist on entering the game area but refuse to take part in the game at all is being a spoilsport.
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If they don't fight back, they aren't taking part in PVP, hence it becomes the same as attacking an AFKer.
[/ QUOTE ]Yes they are, they're completing objectives in a PvP zone. Your argument is like saying I'm not participating in PvP if I capture a flag in WoW battlegrounds.
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To be honest guys one of the ways around it would be to give minimal/no exp for killing a player who is not retaliating
[/ QUOTE ]You get no XP from PvP kills.
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No, in entering a PvP zone you've acknowledged that you're open to PvP attacks (not that you have any choice).
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Yes, "signing up for PvP." Signing up for the London Marathon doesn't mean you have to try and win it -- it's acceptable to join it for the excersise -- but you should respect that it is a race. If you don't intend to run at all, don't sign up.
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That doesn't oblige you to go out and hit people though,
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PvP zones are intended for competitive play. When we enter an area set aside for a game, common courtesy, not the EULA, obliges us to take at least some part in the game or stay out. To insist on entering the game area but refuse to enter play the game at all is being a spoilsport.
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All would be true if there was no PVE aspect to the PVP zones.
Common courtesy would also say you don't force people into joining in your game also would it not?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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All would be true if there was no PVE aspect to the PVP zones.
[/ QUOTE ]I suppose you're not going to listen but I'll repeat it anyways: There isn't.
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All would be true if there was no PVE aspect to the PVP zones.
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There isn't. What appears to be PvE elements in the PvP zones are intended as part of the PvP game. The badges are PvP badges, the mobs are there to affect PvP fights, the missions either have direct effects on PvP or are intended to steer players so that PvP fights are more likely to occur.
They're like obstacles in the steeple race -- they're there as part of the competition, not as additional, non-competitive elements unrelated to the footrace.
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Common courtesy would also say you don't force people into joining in your game also would it not?
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Who, exactly, is holding a gun to your head, forcing you to enter the PvP zones? Oh, you just really want the shiny London Marathon participant medal? Well, then run the race already!
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If they don't fight back, they aren't taking part in PVP, hence it becomes the same as attacking an AFKer.
[/ QUOTE ]Yes they are, they're completing objectives in a PvP zone. Your argument is like saying I'm not participating in PvP if I capture a flag in WoW battlegrounds.
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Please explain how some one acquiring a shivian shard or a Warburg WMD affects your team/player/side negatively?
Have I missed something did they introduce capture the flag? Does one side loose if some one get the nuke? Didn't last time I entered.
As said before in RV the loosing and gaining of pillboxes on effects you if your PVP strategy relies on the mob types in the zone.
We already went over the mission content in the zone, due to speed of travel powers your simply not going to stop them getting to their mission.
So really what are you getting out of the attack?
A challenge? They aren't fighting back.
Chance to test your build in a fight? Again they aren't fighting back.
Try to provoke them into a fight? It didn't work before why would it work now?
Some form of enjoyment by wasting others time and winding them up?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
As it is at the moment you're not really being forced to join in though. All the things you've mentioned are nice, but it's not going to make the game unplayable without them. Risk vs reward.
Badgehunters can sometimes be a bit frustrating for pvpers, especially when they sit there holding the most wanted in base. Pvper enters a zone, checks and sees if there's someone there and then spends 10 minutes looking around before realising the person is AFK in the hospital or doesn't want to take part in pvp.
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All would be true if there was no PVE aspect to the PVP zones.
Common courtesy would also say you don't force people into joining in your game also would it not?
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But you agreed to play that game when you read and accepted YOU ARE NOW ENTERING A PVP ZONE.
No one forced you in there, and if its all just too much trauma, go in the middle of the night or early in the morning when its empty.
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Because for some pie-faced reason the devs put PVE content in the PVP zones?
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So either go to the PvP zone and fight back when you're attacked, or suck it up and forego the badges.
I don't much care for PvP -- but when I'm in a PvP zone hunting for badges, I accept the PvP as a cost of admission and when I'm attacked I try to at least make it as much of a challenge for the attacker as I can. Anything else would be rude and poor sportsmanship.