Debt - Has it become pointless?
By
Baby_Phoenix,
Posted on: 2008-06-13 05:49 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
[ QUOTE ]
BUT the lack of incentive to exemplar is a bigger concern really. IMO they should do something tied in with the IO/Salvage system to make exemplaring worthwhile again
[/ QUOTE ]50+ badges not a good enough incentive? Ouroboros helped this out, and it wasn't just a short term fix.
I would happily still use Ouroboros (on my main badger), even after collecting all the badges.
[ QUOTE ]
increase droprates on rare salvage or something?
[/ QUOTE ]Increased rare drops you say!!! Just go solo in Cimerora, guaranteed at least 1 rare per hour.
Main 50 & Badger Nine Claws Claws/Regen/Body
Other 50's Ph10x Brute Unjust Law Tanker Samantha Urai Scrapper Codename 1250 Scrapper
Cepheus Defender Nilus Scrapper Electro Field Blaster S.PONGE Tanker
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BUT the lack of incentive to exemplar is a bigger concern really. IMO they should do something tied in with the IO/Salvage system to make exemplaring worthwhile again
[/ QUOTE ]50+ badges not a good enough incentive? Ouroboros helped this out, and it wasn't just a short term fix.
I would happily still use Ouroboros (on my main badger), even after collecting all the badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah but badges only really matter to badgers - I feel confident speculating that the majority of the playerbase doesn't care one whit about badges unless they're needed for an accolade power or to unlock a contact they want to do.
An incentive for exemplaring would need to have a more widespread appeal for it to be worthwhile for the majority. Clearing debt used to be that incentive, but even then it wasn't an incentive for L50s (unless they were badgers 
). An increase in salvage/recipe drop rate or inf earned would probably be the most attractive option for the majority of players.
As for debt, well maybe debt should affect inf earned and salvage/recipe drop-rate too, instead of xp - then it would have an impact on L50 players as well as everyone else.
I miss the days you could join a PUG in the hollows and one of the members was a lvl 50 exemp'in down 
If you die the enemy takes a salvage off YOU!!!!
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
I exemp down in the Hollows, Atlas and Galaxy from time to time 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
My personal opinion on debt...
It should start at level 10 with the exact % as now.
But it should increase as you level, the same way as the damage, recharge, etc. of your powers do.
Making debt nastier as you level would allow:
1. Getting debt badges easier as you level. (Or not.)
2. More reasons to play level 50's to get rid of debt.
3. More reasons for level 50's to exemplar down and help lower level players with teams etc.
(Faster debt recovery.)
4. May also slow down player leveling. (Hopefully.)
5. ...
Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
Nuff Said...
Coolio Wolfus leader of Coolio�s Crusaders on Union.
Tekna Logik leader of Tekna�s Tormentors on Defiant.
Creator of: Coolio's Tech Beacon Replacements
AE arc 402506, 'The Rise and Demise or Otherwise of Tekna Logik...'.
Erm, debt does increase as you level. Otherwise a lvl 50 would clear their debt in about .25 of a second. Used to be a lvl 50 would get over 100k debt for every death, no matter where that death was. That usually took most of the rest of the mission to clear instead of clearing the current mob.
Defiant 50's
Many and varied!
@Miss Chief
I think the suggestion was a further proportional increase in debt as you level.
Good Idea IMO.
However, I am concerned the Dev team have lost their bottle regarding anything vaguely "nerf" like. A very short term, unhealthy philosophy if you as me.
[ QUOTE ]
Used to be a lvl 50 would get over 100k debt for every death, no matter where that death was. That usually took most of the rest of the mission to clear instead of clearing the current mob.
[/ QUOTE ]
Which is how it should work tbh.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
Memories of Good old shadow shard and the 450K I had to clear off afterwards.
[ QUOTE ]
Increased rare drops you say!!! Just go solo in Cimerora, guaranteed at least 1 rare per hour.
[/ QUOTE ]Is that supposed to be a lot?
I hate dying so any debt to me is a kick in the face and that's probably due to playing so long I still kinda think 'debt...noooooooo get it off me!!!'
I do think that the difficulty levels should have more importance other than the number of mobs/bosses etc you get, although yes this course troubles with debt (badge) whores but then what doesn't in CoX these days?
@SkullFester
I'm not changing this signature until I'm proclaimed 'King of the World'.
[ QUOTE ]
It should start at level 10 with the exact % as now.
But it should increase as you level, the same way as the damage, recharge, etc. of your powers do.
Making debt nastier as you level would allow:
1. Getting debt badges easier as you level. (Or not.)
2. More reasons to play level 50's to get rid of debt.
3. More reasons for level 50's to exemplar down and help lower level players with teams etc.
(Faster debt recovery.)
4. May also slow down player leveling. (Hopefully.)
[/ QUOTE ]
I still don't see much of an incentive there for L50s to clear debt unless they're badgers. Why should L50s care about experience debt when they cannot (and don't need to) earn experience? I still think debt affecting inf and salvage/recipe drops would makes players more likely to want to avoid defeat, at all levels, more than xp debt.
I personally wouldn't mind if debt took an entire mission to clear, but you have to think about scaling it - a whole mission for whom? Taking a whole mission for a soloer or for an 8-man team? I doubt soloers would be happy if the debt from a death was going to take them 2-3 missions to clear just so that it would only take a single mission for a team - imho that would be a little harsh. This goes back to the question of whether scaling it so you get more debt while on a team would disincentivize teaming or not.
You could make the penalty time-based instead (reduced xp and/or inf for 20-30mins online-time after a death), but then you'd get players just leaving their characters logged in overnight to clear debt, so that wouldn't work either.
Maybe give the same debt to everyone on death, teamed or solo, but have the amount of debt that gets worked off per-kill adjusted according to team size. Although that would still penalise teams less for their rate of xp gain.
Not an easy issue to solve.
[ QUOTE ]
I exemp down in the Hollows, Atlas and Galaxy from time to time
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd guess that the majority of the playerbase isn't quite so altruistic as you
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Increased rare drops you say!!! Just go solo in Cimerora, guaranteed at least 1 rare per hour.
[/ QUOTE ]Is that supposed to be a lot?
[/ QUOTE ]
Shhh leave people thinking you aren't getting more than them and they'll be happy. I've even stopped telling Nightmarer when I get purples now
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
I don't see how debt makes the game any more challenging. It can make it longer to get to 50, but the challenge level is still the same, it doesn't make the mobs stronger or the missions harder. It just takes longer, which is not extra challenge (Unless your challenging my patience?)
In fact all it did was make PuG's [censored] at each other and break up. So if the challenge was to not frustrate the group to the point of dissolving, then yes, debt did indeed provide a challenge, sort of.
I don't miss debt, but then I thought it was fairly pointless to begin with.
i look debt like this it an epic badge now to get lol
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Increased rare drops you say!!! Just go solo in Cimerora, guaranteed at least 1 rare per hour.
[/ QUOTE ]Is that supposed to be a lot?
[/ QUOTE ]I didn't mean that I only get 1 per hr, I was just implying that they seem easier to come by there, than anywhere else at the moment. A coincidence no doubt.
And for anyone that's interested. DA is the best play to farm arcane invention salvage between 24-28, but be warned you may bump into Max there!!!
Main 50 & Badger Nine Claws Claws/Regen/Body
Other 50's Ph10x Brute Unjust Law Tanker Samantha Urai Scrapper Codename 1250 Scrapper
Cepheus Defender Nilus Scrapper Electro Field Blaster S.PONGE Tanker
The ultimate Debt answer will follow :-
1) More debt received per person, dependent on team size.
solo = 20k, duo = 40k, 3 = 60k and so on...
2) Have 1 Random invention salvage item taken back. Enemies then will get flamed on forums for l33ting.
3) Automatic influence/infamy removed (as payment for anytype of rez), 10% of current value
4) have a 10 minute period after defeat, where only debt can be repaid. During this period no xp can be gained, and this time is based on ingame time not real time.
5) Made to wear a Dunce's hat
6) Team Wipe
i) on Heroic - All players names added to Hall of Shame
ii) Tenacious - 1 extra random invention salvage l33ted
iii) Rugged - 10% influence penalty + 2 salvage items
iv) Unyielding - 10% inf + 5 random items
v) Invincible - Automatic full debt received + 2 recipes l33ted
This may then lead to more teams splitting up, as tensions rise again, but it may just make better players of us all. Or it could just stop suicidal game play.
Controversial I know, but won't happen anyhow??? 
Main 50 & Badger Nine Claws Claws/Regen/Body
Other 50's Ph10x Brute Unjust Law Tanker Samantha Urai Scrapper Codename 1250 Scrapper
Cepheus Defender Nilus Scrapper Electro Field Blaster S.PONGE Tanker
[ QUOTE ]
And for anyone that's interested. DA is the best play to farm arcane invention salvage between 24-28, but be warned you may bump into Max there!!!
[/ QUOTE ]Quite unlikely. It was great until the yanks discovered it and crashed the market, now it's no longer profitable
Although still a good way to level certain characters from 20 to 30.
as i see it, you guy's like to punnish your self, and like the endless grind.
i, for one, hate grind.
and i,for one, don't like the dept system currently.
if the xp would scale on your lvl, then i don't mind, but now it's a hell of a grind to go on higher lvls.
[ QUOTE ]
<snip>
iii) Rugged - 10% influence penalty + 2 salvage items
iv) Unyielding - 10% inf + 5 random items
<snip>
[/ QUOTE ]
Wait wait.. Does that mean 10% of the inf you're currently carrying? Because if it does I'd be seriously against it until we have a way to store inf somewhere... I mean, currently my main has about 360mil on him, saved up for when I get my ice/MM blaster to 50 and start IOing him. For me it would mean a loss of 36mil inf if I happened to be defeated on my main. Not exactly fun... It might work if we had a way to store inf in a vault like recipes etc.
That would most likely just make people who are in a situation like me (yeah yeah, maybe not many but we're paying customers too) just avoid playing those characters. 
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
[ QUOTE ]
as i see it, you guy's like to punnish your self, and like the endless grind.
i, for one, hate grind.
and i,for one, don't like the dept system currently.
if the xp would scale on your lvl, then i don't mind, but now it's a hell of a grind to go on higher lvls.
[/ QUOTE ]
Back when this 'were all fields, was a bit more of a grind Kinda what this thread is about.
I for one agree with the idea that it's become somewhat pointless. Running across the gulch in old hollows, praying that the 'Ooopa gloopa goop!' of the Igneous didn't pop on screen before a swift +10 beating, incurring enough debt to make calling 'injurylawyers4you' a sensible option- *really* made you think about what you were doing.
Currently, I'm not that worried about pulling off some daring stunt which could have me faceplant, as i know the mission reward will clear it (unless i'm horizonal more than once in the mission).
Both sides have their merits, and their drawbacks...as this discusson demonstrates. I do like the idea of debt scaling, however...but that may put people off playing the 40-50 content, and resort to speed levelling it all either through Tina/Jenken's arc, or the Co-op 35+ Tfs.
[ QUOTE ]
as i see it, you guy's like to punnish your self, and like the endless grind.
i, for one, hate grind.
and i,for one, don't like the dept system currently.
if the xp would scale on your lvl, then i don't mind, but now it's a hell of a grind to go on higher lvls.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hint, sorudo: Crank up the rep, worry less about XP and more on why you're smacking up Council in that office building in Atlas in the first place. Why do you think those story arcs exist, now?
*points to sig*
[EDIT] Get a friend too. That helps.
Sam: "My mind is a swirling miasma of scintillating thoughts and turgid ideas."
Max: "Me too."
Stuff
[ QUOTE ]
Debt used to be a good reason to exemp down and team with lower level PuGs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nail->Head.
Debt has become nought more than a minor inconvenience - which is fine with me, as in my mind that's all it ever should be. I remember the old days too, when once a group wiped a few times everyone got annoyed and started having a go, it just generated tension.
Now debt is just not a concern - I actually solo and I dont mind if I get slaughtered a few times by a pink EB or AV because I know within 20 minutes I'll be debt-free again anyway.
BUT the lack of incentive to exemplar is a bigger concern really. IMO they should do something tied in with the IO/Salvage system to make exemplaring worthwhile again - increase droprates on rare salvage or something?
Anyway, they probably just felt like giving Blasters a break.