Debt - Has it become pointless?
By
Baby_Phoenix,
Posted on: 2008-06-13 05:49 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Some people may see the game as a game where they have fun by getting kills, being the last man standing makes em feel l33t and its all about being seen as the best - as one example at one end of a spectrum. Whilst others at the other end of the spectrum are playing a game with a sense of roleplay whereby being man down is not good at all, in fact gutting, and realistically losing a fellow soldier in a time of war would be like losing a brother. So you end up with the more so selfish and the more so selfless at two extremes. The selfish would play properly to avoid getting themselves debt and the selfless who would like to get to play conceptually to their sense of roleplay avoiding the lose of a brother as a result and therefore debt. I think the game itself should be played in a way that those expecting to play and feel, like superheroes/villains get to - you notice only villains get a true and very useful reward for debt, this is to my way of thinking cos villains are going to be less selfless. So a balance of debt in mind is important.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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o and my friend can't afford monthly fee's, go figure.
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I didn't specifically mean your real-world friends.
Sam: "My mind is a swirling miasma of scintillating thoughts and turgid ideas."
Max: "Me too."
Stuff
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it's a hell of a grind to go on higher lvls.
[/ QUOTE ]Not really. You've never played other MMOs? CoH/CoV are a lot faster than the average MMO in terms of reaching the maximum level quickly.
This is of course assuming you're not still playing on Heroic.
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it's a hell of a grind to go on higher lvls.
[/ QUOTE ]Not really. You've never played other MMOs? CoH/CoV are a lot faster than the average MMO in terms of reaching the maximum level quickly.
This is of course assuming you're not still playing on Heroic.
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This, I've been averaging just over two levels a night in a duo on Villains on Invinc with I dunno, 3-4 hours play. Crank it up, find a friend or two ingame and get rolling.
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it's a hell of a grind to go on higher lvls.
[/ QUOTE ]Not really. You've never played other MMOs? CoH/CoV are a lot faster than the average MMO in terms of reaching the maximum level quickly.
This is of course assuming you're not still playing on Heroic.
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However CoH is designed as get 50 make new char that plays differently, where as most MMOs are get max level then just grind the same dungeons over and over again for chance of shiny things.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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it's a hell of a grind to go on higher lvls.
[/ QUOTE ]Not really. You've never played other MMOs? CoH/CoV are a lot faster than the average MMO in terms of reaching the maximum level quickly.
This is of course assuming you're not still playing on Heroic.
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I second that.
Sorudo, if you're finding this game a slow-levelling grind then I suggest you never try any other MMOs. Heck, when I used to play EverQuest it took some casual players 2+ years to hit L50, over 100+ days in /played time - but usually around a year for the average player, with maybe 50 days /played time - admittedly there was no xp debt, because you'd just lose 25% of a level's worth of xp, and maybe even get de-levelled, when you were defeated.
Meanwhile in CoH/V I'm knocking out a new L50 every 6-8 weeks or so on average (maybe 150-200 hours /played), if that, depending on build and whether it's a character I use for teaming or solo - that's with no powerlevelling/farming help, btw (you can probably do it in a week if you skip content and get on farms).
If you find CoH/V a grind then you're doing something very wrong - whether it's your playstyle or expectations I don't know. What games were you playing pre-CoH/V? This game is supposed to take longer to play through to the "end" than a 10-20 hour console game, so maybe it would seem long coming from that perspective, but it's hardly as arduous as you're making out.
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What games were you playing pre-CoH/V?
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Like myself, Guild Wars.
Sam: "My mind is a swirling miasma of scintillating thoughts and turgid ideas."
Max: "Me too."
Stuff
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If you find CoH/V a grind then you're doing something very wrong
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Compared to other similar MMO level up models (WoW,AoC) the level up process is about the same grind.200-250 hours.
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if the xp would scale on your lvl, then i don't mind
[/ QUOTE ]What? XP does scale based on your level.
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This is of course assuming you're not still playing on Heroic.
[/ QUOTE ]Nothing wrong with playing on heroic 
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if the xp would scale on your lvl, then i don't mind
[/ QUOTE ]What? XP does scale based on your level.
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i can see that, a lvl 4 lvls 200x faster then a lvl 20....and you call that scaling?....no it isn't.
scaling it on your lvl means that you're gaining around the same X% XP as in a lvl 1-4, doesn't have to be to much like it but around that makes lvling more an enjoyment then a grind.
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i can see that, a lvl 4 lvls 200x faster then a lvl 20....and you call that scaling?....no it isn't.
[/ QUOTE ]You get different amounts of XP from mobs based on your level, therefore XP does scale based on your level. That doesn't mean the amount of foes you need to defeat to level won't increase, and neither should it mean that. Pretty much every level-based game ever increases the time needed between levels every level.
I'm not sure if anyone suggested it already, but why not make debt happen with difficulty changes?
Someone who plays on Heroic gets no debt, above that increase it. So yeah, the game gets harder and you get debt... But you get better enhancements and experience from it.
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I'm not sure if anyone suggested it already, but why not make debt happen with difficulty changes?
Someone who plays on Heroic gets no debt, above that increase it. So yeah, the game gets harder and you get debt... But you get better enhancements and experience from it.
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Wouldnt work, the game is already to easy at top rep and debt is gone in the next mob, put debt back to how it use to be, everyone gets debt at lvl 5 and the cap is huge.
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I'm not sure if anyone suggested it already, but why not make debt happen with difficulty changes?
Someone who plays on Heroic gets no debt, above that increase it. So yeah, the game gets harder and you get debt... But you get better enhancements and experience from it.
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Wouldnt work, the game is already to easy at top rep and debt is gone in the next mob, put debt back to how it use to be, everyone gets debt at lvl 5 and the cap is huge.
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If top rep is easy, then that's just bad design. And they should make it harder. 
The "too easy" shtick depends on what AT you're playing with at top reputation; although in my case, no matter the AT I always end up with huge debt bars... so I wouldn't go generalising like that: the game might be too easy for some AT at top reputation for some people. For others, elevating it above Heroic/Villainous is tantamount to suicide.
As for debt, meh... I just don't like the fact that it slows my levelling down for a while (but then again, as I said, I'm always in debt).
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
Well, the latest debt decrease was just too much. I didn't like the original debt, since I soloed a lot back then, meaning it could take weeks for me to get debt free since I played support characters (and soloed, weird, isn't it).
I do understand the change. In other games casual playing is "rewarded" by gaining more xp for a while, so the debt change was probably a response to that.
For experienced players with more than one account it becomes a bit silly when it's possible, even easy to level up to 50 in two weeks. It's actually harder to get the debt badges needed for the accolade.
Of course that is more linked to the new xp curve and Ouroboros really, and with several 50s, many people seem to be eager to get to 50 and start building the character's set collection. The "reward" for exemp/MF just isn't worth it, so once 50 people get bored again due to lack of content, and start grinding another character.
My opinion: Get the "middle" debt setting back, not huge, but still a punishment. Xp curve: give us a +20 button as veteran power so we can skip the first 20 levels and get to the good stuff!
...and way more "end-game" content. I'd love to see a real raid system and 4-team raids, and an EU-scaled hamidon, working CoP (without the base raid [censored]), and way more end-game content, and did I mention, some more lvl 50 content would be nice. 
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i can see that, a lvl 4 lvls 200x faster then a lvl 20....and you call that scaling?....no it isn't.
scaling it on your lvl means that you're gaining around the same X% XP as in a lvl 1-4, doesn't have to be to much like it but around that makes lvling more an enjoyment then a grind.
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Honestly, you'd want to be able to do every 5-level range throughout the game in an hour or two like L1-5 takes?
That would mean L1-50 would take 10-20 hours (oh look, that matches how long most console games have lasted me and they hardly give value for money). I'd be getting new L50 characters at an average rate of at least 10 per month. That would be insane - I'd have filled all 36 possible slots on Union & Defiant in 7 months.
And you'd never get to do more than 1 contact per 5-level range - heck, it would be a struggle to finish one without outlevelling it, unless you deliberately inflicted debt on yourself.
Please, tell me you're not being serious.
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so once 50 people get bored again due to lack of content, and start grinding another character
[/ QUOTE ]Nice Genralisation!! I for one, have 3 lvl 50s and never get bored of playing them. Infact the only one I've run out of standard content on is my Villain, who is currently doing all the Ouroboros missions solo, to try and slow him down. My original 50, still hasn't completed all the PI arcs yet, and he dinged the "big one" over 19 months ago, go figure!
Getting back to the debt debate (you know the original thread topic), I agree with reducing the debt limit back to lvl 5, and increasing the debt cap (all blasters like max debt at all times, 
)... but I'd also implement changes. Some of my earlier posts have been quite radical, but I'd like to see something implemented which strikes a compromise, which will not turn new or exisitng ppl away, or hinder the speed of xp gain.
Debt will never be removed, because it is linked to badges. I'd personally like to see it amended in some way or other, which will slow it's repayment down, but still make it easy to pay back, unlike the debt recieved between i5 and i7. I still think that debt should be proportional to the team size and the playing difficulty, when the defeat occurs.
Main 50 & Badger Nine Claws Claws/Regen/Body
Other 50's Ph10x Brute Unjust Law Tanker Samantha Urai Scrapper Codename 1250 Scrapper
Cepheus Defender Nilus Scrapper Electro Field Blaster S.PONGE Tanker
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(all blasters like max debt at all times, )
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Hehe, I don't - so there's only one thing I can say to that - and I'll even use your words (even though you're missing an "e" in there ):
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Nice Genralisation!!
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Touche.
.... and thanks for pointing out my typo. 
/em lashes himself for poor spelling.
Main 50 & Badger Nine Claws Claws/Regen/Body
Other 50's Ph10x Brute Unjust Law Tanker Samantha Urai Scrapper Codename 1250 Scrapper
Cepheus Defender Nilus Scrapper Electro Field Blaster S.PONGE Tanker
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Touche.
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Touché.
I couldn't be bothered with the proper é.
Main 50 & Badger Nine Claws Claws/Regen/Body
Other 50's Ph10x Brute Unjust Law Tanker Samantha Urai Scrapper Codename 1250 Scrapper
Cepheus Defender Nilus Scrapper Electro Field Blaster S.PONGE Tanker
Yeah, I'm not reading all this, thie first 3 pages will have to do
I agree, I remember when my blaster (who is a defender now, remake 
) had debt for over an entire level, imagine it: *ding* "Woo! lvl up!" *glance at lvl bar* "All the boxes are red!? aww man!"
I hated it back then, but now it's gone, I want it back!
story is good, DP is good, grind your butt of is not good, that's my point.
o and my friend can't afford monthly fee's, go figure.