Debt - Has it become pointless?
By
Baby_Phoenix,
Posted on: 2008-06-13 05:49 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Unless you solo, debt is indeed to easy to get rid of now. When you solo it takes more then the next mob to get rid of it. It has lost it bite and is something you can ignore easily. In other words this has become to easy and is quite boring.
I would prefer to have the old debt system back.
I totally agree, when I was a leader on the Hami raids, Mr ? would start with no debt and have full level 50 debt by the end of it. (1.1 mil)
It was a reason to play the character, to get debt free, and a great sense of accomplishment when you were debt free.
I like to enjoy the journey, on each character I create. That is more important than the destination.
Everyone - heroes/villains included will have a few setbacks, its just a matter of picking yourself up, dusting yourself off and carrying on. 
Debt used to be a good reason to exemp down and team with lower level PuGs.
Back in the day debt used to start at level five and was four times more than it is now.
I remember reading Broadcast in the Hollows on more than one occasion from a 30s-40 hero wanting to exemp for Frosty a couple of times to clear debt.
I've never been bothered by debt, it's just a state of mind. Now though; debt is gone before the next mob, sometimes even in the same combat if you lay faceplanted for a minute.
Bring back old debt!
Lol Storm I have done that a few times with Golden . Even at lvl 50 the debt cap took time to work okk - and like you said Mr Q it gave you a reason to play your lvl 50. I went through a cycle with Golden running a few missions, dying, working off debt, dying, working off etc etc and it was fun! I wholeheartedly agree I would love to have the old debt system back!
Here's hoping - 'Issue 13 - Return of Debt'...
Golden-Phoenix - Lvl 50 Fire/Fire Tank
Oodja Nikabolokov - Lvl 50 SS/WP Brute
Baby-Phoenix - Lvl 50 Peacebringer
How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could Chuck Norris?
I think it needs to be more severe than it is now, but not at the level it used to be (prior to the 50% reduction and higher debt cap I almost gave up on my 1st blaster in the late 30s due to debt)
Pfff... Debt was ALWAYS inconsequential! It's just even more so now! 
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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I think it needs to be more severe than it is now, but not at the level it used to be (prior to the 50% reduction and higher debt cap I almost gave up on my 1st blaster in the late 30s due to debt)
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Heh, heh, my only 50 is a blaster; it just lets you earn more inf and prestige.
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Pfff... Debt was ALWAYS inconsequential! It's just even more so now!
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Not always. Befoire they halved it for instances it was pretty noticable, especially on Train Wreck teams.
Nowadays its pointless.
Lowering Debt was a nerf aimed at Villains!
I noticed it back in i6 when fighting Frostfire in the Hollows on a lowbie PUG.
Nowadays? Not so much. My Fire/Ice Blaster uses Rise of the Pheonix as part of his attack chain (right after "Inferno" for extra lolz), and my Spines/Dark Scrapper loves Soul Transfer's AV-level stun.
I was actually a bit annoyed a few issues ago that it took so long to attain and work off large amounts of debt before hitting level 30 (was farming debt for one of my CoV accolades on a Stalker).
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Pfff... Debt was ALWAYS inconsequential! It's just even more so now!
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Not always. Befoire they halved it for instances it was pretty noticable, especially on Train Wreck teams.
Nowadays its pointless.
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I've always played squishies. Blasters or PB's mostly. Debt is a good friend of mine and has NEVER EVER worried me! Even at i3 levels!
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
i thought the 50% indoor debt and full outdoor debt was fine now it's worked off in the next mob unless you die in that one too
Heroes: Phobos-, Protector-Bot, Shadow of Ra, Bionic Eye, Entropic Chaos, Strike-Freedom.
Villains: Necron Phobos, Khorne-Berzerker, Full Metal Panic, Smasher Devourer, Degrees Kelvin.
Co-Leader of The Echelon
Visit us at http://www.theechelon.eu
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Unless you stop playing and go do something else, debt is indeed to easy to get rid of now.
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Solo or not, it still takes nothing more than a mob or two to appease the debt fairies.
If it gets any easier we'll be able to pay it off my standing under Atlas and talking rubbish for ten minutes.
Me, I miss the days of
"HURRAH! I've appeased the debt fairies!!... Oh... Bugger."
Debt simply slows down your levelling, rather than halting or reversing it. Thus, it's always been fairly irrelevant. Nowadays, even before the latest reduction, it's hardly noticeable.
Debt - Has it become pointless? Yes.
Raise the debt cap (x2), remove all debt reduction bonuses (from IOs (or make it a six slot bonus not 2-3) and Temp powers), leave the introduction of debt till level 10. And double the amount of debt you get.
My solution.
Debt was always part of the game, now it's so minimal as to be pointless.
I agree with those wishing for it to be rolled back.
Currently debt is a momentary blip, even solo, and so the only incentive not to die is the time it takes to move through zones and load maps. Wow. Hardship.
I think that the amount of debt acrued by death needs upping again, and I wouldn't be averse to seeing a small penalty applied to the character while they have debt (a damage debuff for scrappers and blasters? An accuracy debuff for controllers? An endurance recovery debuff for defenders and tanks? That sounds like it could be pretty fair, if the numbers are balanced).
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise 
; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
Debt to me is a measure of how much fun I'm having. No debt = too easy, not a challenge. Debt is also six badges to me, six, shiny, free badges for doing nothing more than being humbled. Now, those debt badges are further and further out of reach, especially the sixth one.
I too wish debt weren't so easily paid off. Double instance debt, and keep outdoor debt the same - it's four times the current instance debt anyway.
Another reason for the easier debt repayment is the smoothed XP-curve. Most times, mobs are giving more XP than before, making repayment much quicker. In my opinion, if the rewards go up, so should the penalties.
I dunno what game you lot are playing, but the math just doesn't add up. I play a (currently) 43 Thugs/Poison MM, and I solo a lot on Malicious rep. When I die I get about 25k debt, yet the mobs I kill only give me around 1-1.2k xp each, and often there arent 25 mobs on the whole level. So, I don't see how that works for you guys...
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Currently debt is a momentary blip, even solo, and so the only incentive not to die is the time it takes to move through zones and load maps. Wow. Hardship.
I think that the amount of debt accrued by death needs upping again, and I wouldn't be averse to seeing a small penalty applied to the character while they have debt (a damage debuff for scrappers and blasters? An accuracy debuff for controllers? An endurance recovery debuff for defenders and tanks? That sounds like it could be pretty fair, if the numbers are balanced).
[/ QUOTE ]I like this suggestion. I agree that with greater rewards, should come greater punishments. I think that when you are defeated, you should have a 5 min (ingame) penalty placed onto you, where you can't earn any xp at all, that would certainly effect the way people play their alts (solo or grouping).
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Raise the debt cap (x2), remove all debt reduction bonuses (from IOs (or make it a six slot bonus not 2-3) and Temp powers).
[/ QUOTE ]I agree with the debt protection in IO sets being removed, or made a 6 slot bonus. I steer clear of these sets in particular, as debt is harder to achieve (through normal gameplay) than ever before. When debt started at lvl 5, the hollows was a fearsome zone .... Now with lower mob size, easier mob avoidance, and with a higher debt starting point, the hollows seems a very watered down version of a great original zone.
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Leave the introduction of debt till level 10. And double the amount of debt you get
[/ QUOTE ]No, bring debt back to starting at lvl 5, and triple the amount we are getting at the moment. With the smoother xp curve now, debt will still get paid off rather quickly anyway.
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I dunno what game you lot are playing, but the math just doesn't add up. I play a (currently) 43 Thugs/Poison MM, and I solo a lot on Malicious rep. When I die I get about 25k debt, yet the mobs I kill only give me around 1-1.2k xp each, and often there arent 25 mobs on the whole level. So, I don't see how that works for you guys...
[/ QUOTE ]Previous posts were eluding to debt payback being extremely quick in teams. However, I can pay back debt on my lvl 50 tank/scrapper within 3-4 mobs (generally) on unyielding, during solo play. Sometimes I don't even see the debt on my gauge, as it's gone that quickly...!
Main 50 & Badger Nine Claws Claws/Regen/Body
Other 50's Ph10x Brute Unjust Law Tanker Samantha Urai Scrapper Codename 1250 Scrapper
Cepheus Defender Nilus Scrapper Electro Field Blaster S.PONGE Tanker
I'm probably going to get lynched for this.... but.. Implement negative XP for defeat, and de-levelling!
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
*lynches FFM*
I can just see this on a team of 50s...
"Whoop, dead, down to effective 49. Bah and humbug."
Five seconds later
"Ding! Debt free, back up to 50!"
... hang on a minute, that would be a fun way of letting L50s get the new insp buff when levelling.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
QR
I gave up on a couple of old toons back in the days of super debt because due to being a new player back then i thought i'ld never clear it. Do agree they need to raise the debt again though, not as high as it used to but a nice middleground.
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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I'm probably going to get lynched for this.... but.. Implement negative XP for defeat, and de-levelling!
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Dont even go there, i'ld be level 1 again so fast my 70 second chilli hot rustler burger (which btw is now a special £1 bargain in a supermarket near you) wouldnt even be finished.
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
I was chatting online with a mate who hasn't been on COH for a few months and were were discussing the changes over the past couple of issues when the subject of Debt arose.
I remember before issue 11 debt used to last you a good couple of missions and was something to be wary of. At the time it could be annoying but it made you take more care of your health but it was something to celebrate when you finally worked it off. Many were the times in a team when some happy soul would shout 'WOO - DEBT FREE!!!' and it was a sense of great joy that finally all earned xp was yours once again. Since the changes to debt if you die debt tends to be gone before the next mob has been defeated. The only time debt last more than about 5 minutes is if the team wipes and you all have to run back to the mission from the hospital.
This seems to make debt more of a token gesture so people can still (eventually) get the badges rather than a penalty for being careless enough to die in the first place!
Is this just me being cynical or do others feel this way too?
Golden-Phoenix - Lvl 50 Fire/Fire Tank
Oodja Nikabolokov - Lvl 50 SS/WP Brute
Baby-Phoenix - Lvl 50 Peacebringer
How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could Chuck Norris?