Is a Tank without Taunt a tank?


Animal_Mutha_EU

 

Posted

Votes and Opinions Please. Im seeing so many tauntless tanks since taunt was moved to lvl 10 (not that anybody seems to take it anyway) I wondered what people think?


 

Posted

They're still a Tanker. Says so right on their hero liscence and everything!

Then again I don't tend to use phrases like "Scranktroller" so I might be the wrong guy to ask.

I think Taunt is integral to what a Tanker does. I think it's a core ability for him, like Build Up for a Scrapper or Assassin's Strike for a Stalker; but just like a Scrapper has other ways to lay the smackdown and Stalkers have regular critical hits from stealth, Tankers have other ways to grab aggro. Almost every move they know can do that.


 

Posted

I can keep most agro with my aura and punch voke. so it can be done, and im sure there are tanks doing a great job without it. I love it though, as stone/ it helps deal with any mobility problems, and normaly i dont want to chase things anyway as the mobs can start to scater a bit. Its auto hit so in a tight spot u can rely on it. i want every posible tool to help me keep my team mates alive.


 

Posted

its not a essential power, but if u want to team alot, and team with pesky blasters who like to aggro everything(extremus!), then its easier to save team mates who get in trouble, but i dont think u have to get it so early aswell, most tanks will have a aoe taunt like blazing aura and chilling embrace, which works very well.


 

Posted

Without either a taunt or an aura i'd generally say no.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
. Its auto hit so in a tight spot u can rely on it. i want every posible tool to help me keep my team mates alive.

[/ QUOTE ]

And thats the point. Sure, with chilling embrace i can usually lock 80-90% aggo from teams.

But with taunt, aside from ratching it up to 90-100%, I can stop team wipes when the S hits the F. Second mobs, knockback disasters, a few mobs round the corner, teleporting sorcorers/sky raiders, etc. And certain enemies like the cabal are just monsters to tank without taunt.

So my feeling is you are not a effective tank without taunt. The reason is not purely based on the actual power of taunt (which is unquestionably the best in any secondary set except maybe ice slick), but the fact it often represents an attitude of the player. IE I survive first proirity, team effectiveness/survival second priority.

I am ashamed to admit it, but I regularly check tanks builds for the presence of taunt. I am even more ashamed to say that if they do not have taunt by mid 20s I am very very reluctant to team with them.

Come on it is ONE power to pick... and a truly maginificent TEAM power... why NOT pick it?. Its become the exception rather than the rule, and the whole thing leads to a sorry mess of toons who consider their personal survival primary and team effectiveness a distant distant secondary...


 

Posted

I wouldn't feel comfortable tanking for a team if I didn't have taunt. No matter how good you are at keeping the aggro close to you using gauntlet and your aura sooner or later one of your team mates is going to get into difficulty at range and without taunt your options to help them may be very limited. I personally don't like feeling helpless when I'm tanking so I will always take taunt.


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In Soviet Russia, mission farm you!

 

Posted

Each time a topic starts about peoples view 'what is tanking?' & related, God kills a Stalkers...

No wonder they got big buffed last patch...

To say it stupid, i choose my character from the set "Tanker", whatever i pick, whatever i get, i will be and stay a 'Tanker'. Game-hardcoded.


50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore

Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!

 

Posted

For keeping aggro a taunt aura is far far more important.

IMO it is more that a player who doesn't take taunt on their tank is less likely to care about aggro control and so I never expect them to do the full aggro control thingy.

Personally I swear by the power and got so [censored] off at my Ice tank not having it before level 10 or 12 that I changed my build to fit it in.

There are ways of playing as a tauntless tank that can make it's absence not an issue in 95% of circumstances but all of them require far more effort on the part of the tank. For instance my Ice tank has enough maneuverabilty to jump completely out of combat, hit sometime to Punchvoke it and jump back before the mobs have even moved.

PS I think a kitten just died.


@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Each time a topic starts about peoples view 'what is tanking?' & related, God kills a Stalkers... [...]

[/ QUOTE ]
We need a crapload more "what is tanking?" topics then!


 

Posted

All depends if you want to solo from lvl 1 to 50 if so dont take taunt, any tank that wants to play in a team imo still needs taunt.

Been on a few teams the last few nights with my WS and it seems that fewer tanks seem to pick it up now and would rather just stand there or run away from fights after agroing the whole map.


 

Posted

i do think that moving taunt to 10 is a big factor in how many drop it from their builds now, all the tanks i've seen all have a crush on powers pre 26 (except level 4) so something has to give and moving taunt to 10 looks like thats what gives.

even pushing a few tanks thru hero planner i find myself approaching the 30s and wondering when i can fit taunt it and having to rebuild the whole spec to shoehorn it in earlier when it would be useful.

and yup tanks are tanks regardless of if they have taunt or not, if it was a requirement to tanking it'd be inherent.


@ExtraGonk

 

Posted

They're still a Tanker. Check their info window.

Does this topic really need going over again? The Tanks' job is to control aggro. They have a number of tools for doing this. Taunt is one of those tools and a useful one, but as long as they're controlling aggro they're Tanking. Taunt or no Taunt.


By my 50s shall ye know me:
Tundra, DVM, The Late, Neutrino Ghost, Sir Clanksalot, End Of Days, Prof. Migraine
Howler Monkey

 

Posted

totally agree, there are currently 3 threads touching this subject, when in reality there doesnt even need to be one.


@ExtraGonk

 

Posted

I think for a team tank, then yes, taunt is a fairly vital power, not compulsary by any means but can be important. Everyone in CoH has a job to do on a team, and the tank's is to hold aggro. For a solo tank, taunt is less vital but can be useful as a pull. So my answer is... yes... and no.


"Pride is all well and good but a sausage is a sausage"


For Lent I gave up...
Hope

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I think for a team tank, then yes, taunt is a fairly vital power, not compulsary by any means but can be important. Everyone in CoH has a job to do on a team, and the tank's is to hold aggro. For a solo tank, taunt is less vital but can be useful as a pull. So my answer is... yes... and no.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clear as mud on a moonless night


 

Posted

After reading a few posts like this I became slightly concerned that my tanker can't fit taunt into her build until lvl 24 due to the need to fit her travel power and Stamina in. If it was still available at lvl 4 this wouldn't be an issue, but after reading a few replies I'm a tad worried about how easy it'll be to get her into a team before then.


 

Posted

you shouldnt need to worry, a team that looks at you and then makes comment on the fact you're not a tank becuase you have no taunt isnt worth joining.

tbh, as long as you have that tanker mindset of controlling as much of the aggro as possible and you do your gut busting utmost to do that then that should be all thats required.


@ExtraGonk

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
After reading a few posts like this I became slightly concerned that my tanker can't fit taunt into her build until lvl 24 due to the need to fit her travel power and Stamina in. If it was still available at lvl 4 this wouldn't be an issue, but after reading a few replies I'm a tad worried about how easy it'll be to get her into a team before then.

[/ QUOTE ]
How come? How many attacks did you get? What type of tank are you?

Stone has the hardest choices at low level, the others have more missable powers with Fire being in the best position.

My general plan for building a tank is by level 20 they should get the self heal, the basic S/L toggle armour, the mez protection and the taunt aura. This allows room for 2 attacks, taunt, travel power and prerequisite, stamina, health and hurdle or swift.

My opinion of pre 20 tanking is most people don't expect it. Provided you actually take more than your fair share of aggro and actively try to tank you should be okay.


@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
After reading a few posts like this I became slightly concerned that my tanker can't fit taunt into her build until lvl 24 due to the need to fit her travel power and Stamina in. If it was still available at lvl 4 this wouldn't be an issue, but after reading a few replies I'm a tad worried about how easy it'll be to get her into a team before then.

[/ QUOTE ]

You shouldnt worry, Like alot of people have said u can hold most agro with gauntlet and your aura, a team would be crazy to kick a tank from the team just cos a few straggler get past you, the rest of the team should take the responsibility if they cant handle a few minions or a boss.

I did worse anyway, diddnt take mudpots till 22 cos i diddnt think i could handle the end cost. held agro but it was alot more effort.


 

Posted

If you want a less-squishy/soloable firetanker you wont get the full build untill 30ish and still not having taunt.

2 shields, jumpset (3), fitness (3), fighting (2), BA, BU, consume, selfheal, 3 attacks (barrage,bonecursher,whirlinghands) and finaly hasten. 35/38 reserved for ET/TF. Then luckely after that a respec to get rid of the lower-lvl attacks to compensate upcomming epic attacks and to get taunt

For stone its just a mather of getting to 32


50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore

Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
How come? How many attacks did you get? What type of tank are you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to put this into a bit of perspective, I play a tanker who did take Taunt. I had a grand total of 2 (count 'em) attacks, excluding Brawl, until level 24. I took the minimum number of powers required for travel by 14, and I took Stamina as soon as possible. Those were my only pool powers.

I didn't take any cool status inflicting moves like Hand Clap.

I had no defense versus energy or negative energy until 22.

It is really hard to fit Taunt in, or at least it seemed that way with Ice. I had to basically give up any sembelence of an attack chain. I can easily see how someone would have trouble.

If you think of travel powers as taking up you picks for 12 and 14, and fitness as taking your picks for 16, 18 and 20, then that leaves one free moment of selection and one only, at 10th level, to pick up Taunt.

So imagine your an 8th level character with no pool selections yet...


 

Posted

With shannon i literally went all the way to lvl 30 without a travel power. What you are prepared to do is a mindset thing, and no matter what you do will never be good enough in somebodies eyes for some reason.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Yes they are. There is more to tanks than taunt. They have high HP and defences. No matter the power choices they'll always be Tankers. Taunt is a 'choice'. It doesnt define the AT. I'm not arguing about taunts effectiveness again because I'll loose my very last bit of sanity that I hold so dear, just that the definition is not a hero with taunt.


 

Posted

my ice tank has taken swift at lvl 12 and been slotted with run speed do's so less need for super speed until later on so when i get to lvl 14 indtaed of taking a travel power i can now take taunt and get ss at lvl 22

madame heals lvl 50 empath def
lion-hart lvl 50 bs/regen
freezepop lvl 12 ice/ba tank