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Next Question : As the Villain's Tank is a mixture of the Mastermind and the Brute, why can one not take it and the other not want to take it?
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I will pick Taunt on my Brute at lvl 24 (currently lvl 22), I had to pick my shields and Acrobatics before getting it, but I have my taunt aura (Death Shroud), self heal and just a couple of attacks.
I found out that if the teams let me 'herd' the doms and corruptors can just let the AoE loose, the stalkers can pick their target with ease and my Fury is always full due to the huge amount of aggro I can get 
Now that I can survive properly I'll be focusing completely on my primary, by putting together a proper attack chain 
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Hey same as what i done! From a personal point of view when i am higher in levels i will respec things abit better for taunt earlier because as a dark brute anyother tank stealing numbers from me on 1st sf (prolly never happen:P) could be painful. But the taunt beats the aura so you can nick foes for much needed survivability.
I do like dark brutes, if your without fitness especially like i am, you need to herd and you need to keep aggro for maximum optimisation for reasons other than fury even if people say they dont need you to herd, you do.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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1) You cant tank without taunt.
Clearly this has been proven wrong by now. Why else people say that they have been able to "tank" as Defenders, Controllers, Scrappers, Kheldians in Dwarf form, Brutes and Masterminds. I dont believe for a second that either of them would have been as efficient as a Tank, but obviously good enough to warrant the duty of "tanking".
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They are misusing the word tank to define what they do as tanking.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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1) You cant tank without taunt.
Clearly this has been proven wrong by now. Why else people say that they have been able to "tank" as Defenders, Controllers, Scrappers, Kheldians in Dwarf form, Brutes and Masterminds. I dont believe for a second that either of them would have been as efficient as a Tank, but obviously good enough to warrant the duty of "tanking".
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They are misusing the word tank to define what they do as tanking.
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hence my use of quotation marks.
Clearly the definition of "tanking" varies, but it doesnt help when there are people who are trying to push for their own biased definition.
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
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if your without fitness especially like i am
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How can you do anything else without Stamina?
I struggle with attacks with 1 end red SOs in every toggle with Stamina 3 slotted with SO and I only have 2 attacks 
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1) You cant tank without taunt.
Clearly this has been proven wrong by now. Why else people say that they have been able to "tank" as Defenders, Controllers, Scrappers, Kheldians in Dwarf form, Brutes and Masterminds. I dont believe for a second that either of them would have been as efficient as a Tank, but obviously good enough to warrant the duty of "tanking".
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They are misusing the word tank to define what they do as tanking.
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hence my use of quotation marks.
Clearly the definition of "tanking" varies, but it doesnt help when there are people who are trying to push for their own biased definition.
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Well a tanker isnt tanking anything on teams without taunt control and the higher your level of taunt control the more likely you are to be able to be doing the tanking (tanking is getting beats and absorbing them).
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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if your without fitness especially like i am
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How can you do anything else without Stamina?
I struggle with attacks with 1 end red SOs in every toggle with Stamina 3 slotted with SO and I only have 2 attacks
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Well i think its sick and twisted the way i have to do stuff but no different really to my firetank that has no fitness either.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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if your without fitness especially like i am
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How can you do anything else without Stamina?
I struggle with attacks with 1 end red SOs in every toggle with Stamina 3 slotted with SO and I only have 2 attacks
[/ QUOTE ]D oyou have EndRdx in your other powers? Spammed clickies cost far more than toggles...
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if your without fitness especially like i am
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How can you do anything else without Stamina?
I struggle with attacks with 1 end red SOs in every toggle with Stamina 3 slotted with SO and I only have 2 attacks
[/ QUOTE ]D oyou have EndRdx in your other powers? Spammed clickies cost far more than toggles...
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...although many people don´t seem to realize this. I don´t get it why people slot a toggle with a cost of 0.24 endu per second with EndRdx (sometimes even with more than one) before they consider putting a sixth slot for EndRdx in their attacks which mostly translate to roughly 1 endu/second each.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
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...although many people don´t seem to realize this. I don´t get it why people slot a toggle with a cost of 0.24 endu per second with EndRdx (sometimes even with more than one) before they consider putting a sixth slot for EndRdx in their attacks which mostly translate to roughly 1 endu/second each.
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Mostly because there aren't many other things you can put in most toggles, I suspect... It's also deeply ingrained accepted wisdom - which is (by itself) rarely a good way to make decisions.
By my 50s shall ye know me:
Tundra, DVM, The Late, Neutrino Ghost, Sir Clanksalot, End Of Days, Prof. Migraine
Howler Monkey
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if your without fitness especially like i am
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How can you do anything else without Stamina?
I struggle with attacks with 1 end red SOs in every toggle with Stamina 3 slotted with SO and I only have 2 attacks
[/ QUOTE ]D oyou have EndRdx in your other powers? Spammed clickies cost far more than toggles...
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I know.
But I can hardly 'spam' stuff since I only have Bone Smasher with 5 slots (1 acc, 3 dmg, 1 end redux), Taser Dart (FTW!!), Brawl (default slot with end redux) and Barrage (default slot with Accuracy)as my 'attack chain'...
I tend to let the team do the damage normally and when solo I hit the biggest thing goin (Boss or lieut) while Death Shroud takes care of the minions.
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In a team they are a pillar of the Gods but cant be very mush fun to solo.
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Ha hahaha!!
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Quote:
In a team they are a pillar of the Gods but cant be very mush fun to solo.
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Ha hahaha!!
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(oooh gawd what a long and boring post filled with words I cannot even begin to comprehend. Oh look, a typo! I must now ridicule him and show off how superior I am, Go me!)
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
Bit cheeky but I can't really bare the thought of reading all this. was the conclusion yes or no?
depends on who you ask..
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
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Bit cheeky but I can't really bare the thought of reading all this. was the conclusion yes or no?
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A Tank without tank is still a tank. That is the conclusion. After all, as the poem goes;
'Rosa Rosa Rosa est est'
As to whether a tank without taunt is as good or better than one with... well, opinions seem to think that one WITH taunt are better able to control aggro, but as to whether it is essential or not... inconclusive.
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A Tank without tank is still a tank.
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Amused me slightly. A tank is a tank, you either want to team with them or you dont and they either want to team with you or they dont. There are many different ideas of what a tanker must do to the team and there are many different ideas of what a team must do for the tank. I only tank for people who share my idea otherwise i dont see myself as playing a tank sometimes i am just "bye bye!" and log to play another toon (any excuse). If i so much as have to tell people to back up way behind my herdpoint they're unworthy of me . Sometimes you've only so much as looked at the enemy and the team has already rushed in like a rabied pack of wolves with xp/time in mind, i dont play that way or stay in teams like that.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
A tanker without taunt is defo a Tanker, as a matter of fact since you can't change the AT name.
Wheter it's good at holding aggro and properly 'tank' (not herd, mind you, just grab any aggro he can, like an unnoticed ambush/patrol at the back of the team while you're in the middle of another fight) it's another matter.
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Bit cheeky but I can't really bare the thought of reading all this. was the conclusion yes or no?
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Its not black and white... thats about the only conclusion you can come to! 
General concensus is that not taking taunt will make you less able to hold aggro.
Possible majority is that taking an attack instead of taunt (as opposed to taking a defence instead of taunt) makes you more "Skrankerish" than "Tankish".
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Bit cheeky but I can't really bare the thought of reading all this. was the conclusion yes or no?
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Lucky for you, the thread is holographic. Read any tiny portion of it and you'll find some people who swear they can get by without Taunt and others who find it nearly essential.
Read the whole thread and you'll find exactly the same thing but get a headache in the process.
By my 50s shall ye know me:
Tundra, DVM, The Late, Neutrino Ghost, Sir Clanksalot, End Of Days, Prof. Migraine
Howler Monkey
I have 2 Taunts in my Burning Aura. I promise you this I taunt everyone away. I hardly ever lose anyone with this and I feel if you do have a strong Aura like Burning Aura you do not need taunt. Even when a nova comes in from a blaster the taunt still hangs with me.
I did a Dreak with Coston who just dinged 50 gratz m8 and the people there will tell you how well Burning Aura works.
Taunt for me is not ness and is a waste of a power slot for a Fire Tanker.
DD
Actually, Blazing Aura is the worst taunt aura since his taunt component comes from damage and against foes with good defense or that can debuff your tohit making it miss it doesn't taunt a thing because it never hits, unlike every other aura that has an autohit effect that taunts the foes (Slow for Mud Pots, Slow + Dmg Debuff for Chilling Embrace and the Tohit and DEF buff for Invincibility)...
Well I hold it quite well and it works for me maybe we should team up so I can show u how well it works!!!
DD
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Well I hold it quite well and it works for me maybe we should team up so I can show u how well it works!!!
DD
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Another one breaking game mechanics:P the problems with blazing aura are solveable in so many ways but i still dont like it, if its meant to be offensive let it be the only one that autohits for damage and taunt i say.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
This horse must be undead..
It still moves!
or maybe its because people keep kicking it.
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
After 20+ odd pages of this thread I believe we have come to the conclusion that A) Some tanks need taunt. B) other tanks dont need taunt but the general consensus is that his or hers efficiency will be improved by taking taunt.
I know for sure that personally I didnt NEED taunt when leveling up my inv/em tank, although I admit that access to it would have at odd times improved my ability to tank slightly. I have taunt now, but honestly I usually rely on my taunt aura.
What I do find offensive however is as I read the name of the topic "Is a Tank without Taunt a Tank?" I suddenly realised that this implies aither of two things.
1) You cant tank without taunt.
Clearly this has been proven wrong by now. Why else people say that they have been able to "tank" as Defenders, Controllers, Scrappers, Kheldians in Dwarf form, Brutes and Masterminds. I dont believe for a second that either of them would have been as efficient as a Tank, but obviously good enough to warrant the duty of "tanking".
2) Taunt maximises your efficiency.
This is where I find it offensive, because in conjuction with the topical question ("is a tank without taunt a tank?) we get the implication what unless you arent maximizing your efficiency as a tank your clearly not a tank.
This would be like telling a Storm defender that unless they have O2 boost theyre clearly not worth calling defenders.
(a defenders purpose is to keep the team alive, O2 will improve your ability to do so)
A Broadsword Scrapper cant possibly be a scrapper unless he has Build up. (the purpose of scrapping is to do damage, without build up the scrappers damage will decrease)
With this kind of twisted logic a blapper would be more worthy to be called blaster than the pure ranged if we base the definition on pure damage.
Some tankers prefer to herd, others want to pull, and some just happily takes the alpha. All of these methodologies would gain benefit of taking taunt.
Any AT can pull, all you need is a ranged attack, and lacking even that you can always doing a "presence pull" just by going close enough within the mobs perception range.
When it comes to alpha it limits down possible ATs who can do this, a tank being the most suitable due to his excellent defences, but in a pinch or depending on size of team and support other ATs can do it as well. Just remember, just because a SR scrapper can take the alpha from sky raiders in a team of 4 doesnt mean he can take it against CoT in a team of 8.
Few apart from Tankers can herd however. While I deem it a possibility that a Inv scrapper can try it, or a Storm defender can push mobs into corners and actually get a fair sized groups of mobs packed with the aid of Hurricane, herding is still the tanker speciality. Combining Survivability with aggro managament herding epitomizes the TANK.
Where am I going with this?
Narrowmindedness I guess.
Some players building their tanks for optimal herding, only taking the bare minimum of attacks to make room for better defences and aggro management tools, having the versatility of a brick. In a team they are a pillar of the Gods but cant be very mush fun to solo.
Other players maximize their offence, losing their ability to herd and quite possibly would be better off rolling up a scrapper instead. They can still tank a bit and when the team splits the scranker moves on to solo abit.
In reality, most players fall somewhere withing these two types of tank.
What worries me is that by stating that "by not taking taunt you are clearly not maximizing your efficiency (because you're incapable of herding properly)"
Naturally this rigid way of definition upsets people and is why we still debate it after 23 long pages of going nowhere.
I say Nay to defining a tank as per having to prerequisitive being having Taunt due to the reason of it ostracizing players from their own Archetype.
I would admit that having taunt would most likely make them better tankers, but we shouldnt go so far as denying them their identity and purpose.
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.