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Ice and Inv have auto hit taunt auras, so I haven't had this problem.
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So does Stone - it's only the damage component that needs a hit roll for MudPots and the Taunt seems to travel with the Slow/Immob which still autohits.
But none of those three auras can reliably hold aggro up to the aggro cap by themselves, so there's plenty of scope for an extra auto-hit AoE Taunt in that context.
By my 50s shall ye know me:
Tundra, DVM, The Late, Neutrino Ghost, Sir Clanksalot, End Of Days, Prof. Migraine
Howler Monkey
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But none of those three auras can reliably hold aggro up to the aggro cap by themselves
[/ QUOTE ]And yet I continously do that with CE...go figure.
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But none of those three auras can reliably hold aggro up to the aggro cap by themselves
[/ QUOTE ]And yet I continously do that with CE...go figure.
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I'm sure you can gather the aggro cap around you and hold their attention for a short while with no trouble at all, and it's rare that you need to hold the aggro right up to the cap for any length of time, since they should start being arrested pretty soon...
But it only effects 10 enemies at a time, which means that if for some reason you're in one of the few situations where spawns last an unusually long time (eg. DE when multiple Cairns have been dropped, Nemesis with stacked Vengance, CoT with overlapping Acc debuffs) sooner or later some of them won't be taunted. Still doesn't mean you have to have Taunt, of course, particularly since Ice has Icicles available as well. I really don't see how you can argue that adding an extra autohit taunt to your available tools makes aggro holding anything other than more reliable, though.
By my 50s shall ye know me:
Tundra, DVM, The Late, Neutrino Ghost, Sir Clanksalot, End Of Days, Prof. Migraine
Howler Monkey
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But it only effects 10 enemies at a time, which means that if for some reason you're in one of the few situations where spawns last an unusually long time (eg. DE when multiple Cairns have been dropped, Nemesis with stacked Vengance, CoT with overlapping Acc debuffs) sooner or later some of them won't be taunted.
[/ QUOTE ]If you and the foes stay in the same place, yes. However, if you move around you can keep all 17 taunted, continuously.
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But none of those three auras can reliably hold aggro up to the aggro cap by themselves
[/ QUOTE ]And yet I continously do that with CE...go figure.
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I wonder in how many other different way he'll put this, in the future.
It's his only reply every time someone says 'Your aura is capped to 10'....
Not saying that you're a bad tanker, because you must be uber to defy the rules of the game, but ti's getting pretty boring, find a new way of putting things. 
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But it only effects 10 enemies at a time, which means that if for some reason you're in one of the few situations where spawns last an unusually long time (eg. DE when multiple Cairns have been dropped, Nemesis with stacked Vengance, CoT with overlapping Acc debuffs) sooner or later some of them won't be taunted.
[/ QUOTE ]If you and the foes stay in the same place, yes. However, if you move around you can keep all 17 taunted, continuously.
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Well, it's up to you how you tank, of course...
But for me being in one place and keeping as many enemies as possible close around me is a large part of the point of Tanking them. A tool that helps me do that is better than a workaround that requires constantly moving around IMO.
By my 50s shall ye know me:
Tundra, DVM, The Late, Neutrino Ghost, Sir Clanksalot, End Of Days, Prof. Migraine
Howler Monkey
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But for me being in one place and keeping as many enemies as possible close around me is a large part of the point of Tanking them. A tool that helps me do that is better than a workaround that requires constantly moving around IMO.
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And of course, the former situation is perferable as AoEs become much more effective.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
And now that Rad and Dark defenders are popular, you want to be getting tight clusters as much as possible.
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So thats a bit misleading. A tank with taunt has far from ZERO offensive capability. It is simply slightly less than the tank with taunt.
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And even then it all comes out in the wash. I have taunt and ALL the attacks in the set. I seriously doubt there's a tank out there who's noticeably more offensively able than me simply because they didn't take taunt.
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With the effects of quicksand it can be hard to get to mobs with your aura and so taunt is nice. I remember when some of their effects stacked it was a right pain in butt.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I think what MaX may be getting at, and I've seen it myself, is that some taunting tanks seem to just taunt.
Stand in the middle of the mob and hit taunt over and over again, sometimes not even bothering to use their attacks.
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If thats what is needed to be done sometimes to keep mobs its whats needed to be done. I like to taunt, hit, taunt, hit because sometimes i have to, the hit is there while taunt is recharging the aoes make a big difference and i certainly like to use them when they are in offer. My tank couldnt be more offensive really as the attack chain is solid without using my hurl and if i skipped taunt for an attack id have 2 spare attacks on offer and be it if it were i chose the last remaining secondary over taunt it would of been handclap. I couldnt see handclap helping the team much.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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However, I think you can actually contribute far more to TEAM damage by keeping every mob packed closed to you, so the blaster can spam those AoE without fear of death.
Ive noticed that "loose ends" distract other ATs.. they become concerned with their own safety, and the whole team looses efficiency in that way.
So, it sometimes behoves one to taunt first, attack second. I think this is a valid tactic (by all means attack but just do it carefully not spamming it) on occassion.
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Thats it right there, if i had another attack instead of taunt the teams would of lost overall efficiency.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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But none of those three auras can reliably hold aggro up to the aggro cap by themselves
[/ QUOTE ]And yet I continously do that with CE...go figure.
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Its not just using CE though is it, its CE and gauntlet, and no aura is completely reliable to hold aggro of upto the aggro cap, people use knockbacks, scatter powers like rain of fire etc are less troublesome with chilling embrace. You are taunting and not taunting and then taunting again with CE in trying to use that on more mobs than it can physically hit. I can see how it works, dont get me wrong and i can see how you keep aggro, the nearer the level to you the easier its done too.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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And now that Rad and Dark defenders are popular, you want to be getting tight clusters as much as possible.
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I hate it when tanks dont make or arent given time to make tight clusters in one spot to prevent people having personal battles as an empath. As my empath i shouldnt even have to need to heal anyone other than the tanker but for aoes and possibly cones hitting people. I should be a buffing set and when it comes to cones especially i sure as hell cant prevent people from standing where they do.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I hate it when tanks dont make or arent given time to make tight clusters in one spot to prevent people having personal battles as an empath.
[/ QUOTE ]Agreed, although more for the reason that tight groups are by far the most efficient way of dealing with foes.
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Votes and Opinions Please. Im seeing so many tauntless tanks since taunt was moved to lvl 10 (not that anybody seems to take it anyway) I wondered what people think?
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I don't see how a Tank can do their job properly without taunt. Given that the Tank's main(not only but main) job is to take and hold aggro so the rest of the team can do their thing relatively more safely, taunt is a ranged way of grabbing aggro - and why would you want to miss that out? If the idea is that it's more fun to get a damage power, that's fair enough, but it would be also fair for you to let the team know that you're playing that way.
If I'm playing in a team with you with my Blaster, I will feel a bit less safe, but it's no problem to adjust tactics - I will just be a bit more cautious. However, that does mean my DPS will go down a bit from what it would have been if you had Taunt. (Of course this is in the abstract, all sorts of other variables might make a difference.)
There are ALWAYS going to be stray mobs going for squishies, and if you don't have taunt you don't have a means of doing your job in that situation - i.e. the standard situation is that you have the aggro of the main body of mobs, with your taunt aura and punchvoke from your attacks, and you need to keep them in place for AoEs. So you need the ranged aggro-grabbing of Taunt for this kind of situation.
Having said all that, I do think a Tank should put some effort into their damage-dealing as well. It's neither efficient nor fun to have 1 or 2 attacks till your late 20s.
Incidentally, I think this illustrates a general principle: to really know an AT, you have to have played other ATs in teams with that AT, so you know how you would like people to play that AT, so you can play it that way yourself. The Golden Rule again 
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Having said all that, I do think a Tank should put some effort into their damage-dealing as well. It's neither efficient nor fun to have 1 or 2 attacks till your late 20s.
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I only have 4 attacks at level 50 and that includes Brawl. 
I have two tanks currently, both ice. One is /fire and the other is /SS.
Having played them one after the other I have come to the decision that the /SS one needs taunt but the /fire one can cope without it.
It has made me believe that it is entirely up to the individual build whether a tank NEEDS taunt or whether it is a very useful extra.
As stated previously, some build need taunt more than others.
Ice/Fire is indeed the best for aggro grabbing but something like Stone/Energy with NO AoE capability (don't tell me Whirling Hands is worth the power ), no movement and lowered recharge (while in GA) sure as hell needs Taunt, maybe even Provoke from the Power Pool, to tank properly.
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Having said all that, I do think a Tank should put some effort into their damage-dealing as well. It's neither efficient nor fun to have 1 or 2 attacks till your late 20s.
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Unfortunately for most tank builds there is only room for 2 attacks and taunt before level 22 if you want to get stamina at level 20. Even that is taking compromises on defence.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
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Having said all that, I do think a Tank should put some effort into their damage-dealing as well. It's neither efficient nor fun to have 1 or 2 attacks till your late 20s.
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Fun? Probably not
Efficient? You will certainly maximise team efficiency by taking taunt. Every enemy attacking you is expending energy highly inefficiently.
IMO it is highly efficient for a team for the tank to take taunt.
Unfortunately for most tank builds there is only room for 2 attacks and taunt before level 22 if you want to get stamina at level 20. Even that is taking compromises on defence.
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Having said all that, I do think a Tank should put some effort into their damage-dealing as well. It's neither efficient nor fun to have 1 or 2 attacks till your late 20s.
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Unfortunately for most tank builds there is only room for 2 attacks and taunt before level 22 if you want to get stamina at level 20. Even that is taking compromises on defence.
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Fun? Probably not
Efficient? You will certainly maximise team efficiency by taking taunt. Every enemy attacking you is expending energy highly inefficiently.
IMO it is highly efficient for a team for the tank to take taunt.
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Mabe it should've been like that?
yep well spotted!
Cant Stinkt Thrait
Tired
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz *snore*
Next Question : As the Villain's Tank is a mixture of the Mastermind and the Brute, why can one not take it and the other not want to take it?
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Next Question : As the Villain's Tank is a mixture of the Mastermind and the Brute, why can one not take it and the other not want to take it?
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I will pick Taunt on my Brute at lvl 24 (currently lvl 22), I had to pick my shields and Acrobatics before getting it, but I have my taunt aura (Death Shroud), self heal and just a couple of attacks.
I found out that if the teams let me 'herd' the doms and corruptors can just let the AoE loose, the stalkers can pick their target with ease and my Fury is always full due to the huge amount of aggro I can get
Now that I can survive properly I'll be focusing completely on my primary, by putting together a proper attack chain
Personally, when I tank, my philosophy is this...
Irrespective of how any of the other plays play - no matter what they do, it is my responsibility that there HP doesnet move