Wonderfull power, isnt it? 
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I think tanks with taunt are often worse tankers than tanks without.
I'd go so far as to say a tank without a aura can't really tank ; taunt doesn't cut it.
It's like healers. Sure, taunt and healing are a nice band-aid for bad players. But it's not required, nor it is effective in a good team. Healing doesn't kill bad guys, taunt doesn't kill bad guys. Damage does. Buffs/debuffs increase damage or reduce/negate the need for healing.
Tanks are a specific case, because using a damage AoE is actually more effective than taunt. A AoE will hit 16 and damage them, while taunt hit only 5. Auras hold aggro better than taunt, and do damage too.
I've seen too many Tanks using taunt every time it's recharged. No mr tank, I don't need a [censored] babysitter, if you want that bad to hold aggro, at least hit those bad guys so they'll eventually fall. Does Superman defeat his enemies by throwing insults at them ?
Taunt is a useful tool, but it's not meant to be the primary tool of a tank.
Well Im kinda assuming a tank will have AoE taunt, or really hes not worth teaming with at all to be honest (*em/duck).
I have resigned myself now to the fact that the standard of tanking is pretty rubbish. Guess its time to play those single target only scrappers/defenders/controllers/blasters...
Hey, maybe the reason tanks dont take taunt is cos they cant survive all the aggo... now that all other toons are taking cowardly single target effects? 
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Hey, maybe the reason tanks dont take taunt is cos they cant survive all the aggo... now that all other toons are taking cowardly single target effects?
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There are a good many tanks out there that don't take taunt for this reason, I'm quite certain. I doubt they'll admit it though.
Even on my little level 14 tank I taunt and taunt till I fall over or everything is dead. There is no shame falling over when you've done your job, it's easy to get back up again, dust yourself off, and continue. Many Blasters live in constant debt, and don't complain. Most people taking on this attitude will find that if they fall over, the mob will be down to highly manageable chunks by then anyway, for the rest of the team to be safe cleaning them up. Falling over in a team that is glad that you sacrificed yourself for them is far better than staying alive at the expense of your teammates. You'll likely run out of teammates soon with that attitude, imo.
Maybe that's why many tauntless tanks are 'built for soloing', muahahaha!
I'd love to know if having debt a lot, while being in a team of 6 or so would still level you faster than soloing with no debt. Personally it's not much of a problem for me. I either team with people, or I do something else. Soloing is boring, even a PUG is interesting in some way
Shrug.
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Hey, maybe the reason tanks dont take taunt is cos they cant survive all the aggo... now that all other toons are taking cowardly single target effects?
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There are a good many tanks out there that don't take taunt for this reason, I'm quite certain. I doubt they'll admit it though.
[/ QUOTE ]So far, my ice tank has been able to keep full aggro of spawns WITHOUT it, so having it wouldn't really kill me 
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So far, my ice tank has been able to keep full aggro of spawns WITHOUT it, so having it wouldn't really kill me
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I was meaning fear rather than in actuality 
. In general I think that the 'tanks go down WAY too fast' is soo a myth. Unfortunately it's widely perpetuated and many buy into it, and is possibly a factor in a lot of tauntless tanks.
That and the fact that the devs changed the Taunt to 10, making it seem like the purpose of tanks was to scrap, and not being completely aggro magnets...
Shrug... *sigh*
your still a tanker but itss best to have taunt
no offence - honest
but people are still going with the opinion that the only reasons people don't take taunt is to either a) solo or b) not be the first to fall over in a team.
honestly... neither has to be true...
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I've seen too many Tanks using taunt every time it's recharged.
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Early levels some tanks have so few attacks and do not have a hit 16 max aoe either, they may use it as a spacer in an attack chain or for consolidating whats just outside the aura without moving from the bulk of the herd which may be debuffed.
A herd may consist of 15 foes the tankers aura will only effect 10 and so the taunt will claim the other 5. The tankers few attacks may aggro an extra one but the 5 + 10 foes taunted leaves the blaster with his hit 16 foe aoe the safety in using it rather than the blaster hitting 16 and then 6 come over and floor him. Taunt duration from taunt also lasts longer than gauntlet anyway, taunt duration from aura doesnt really last long either just that the taunts are continuously made after the last taunt duration has worn off unless its slotted well. I'd say a tanker without an aura is worse than one without taunt, a tanker without either isnt much of a tanker fullstop. A tanker with taunt has more abilities in tanking and is more flexible in differing team make ups.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Well Im kinda assuming a tank will have AoE taunt, or really hes not worth teaming with at all to be honest (*em/duck).
I have resigned myself now to the fact that the standard of tanking is pretty rubbish. Guess its time to play those single target only scrappers/defenders/controllers/blasters...
Hey, maybe the reason tanks dont take taunt is cos they cant survive all the aggo... now that all other toons are taking cowardly single target effects?
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There is so much logic in that, if i have checked a tankers build and find certain lackings then see him play i may attack with less dps leaving the tanker longer in the fight. A tanker with no aura or taunt is not going to have me using full auto becasue i know i am gonna be the one getting the aggro where as one with as many aggro holding capabilities as possible can have me unleash everything on a mob nice an easy.
taunt is an anti ambush, pbaoe minimaliser, an ability to pull without leaving a defenders debuff area and not need an empath in team, ever, its damage mitigating AV's long range can hurt less so you can go tank a higher AV and minimalise pbaoes for the sake of the team, pull whats around the corner without being surprised by it, save a friend in the red "better red than dead". Hold aggro of more than 10 comfortably so that blasters hit 16 aoes can do so comfortably.
There are ways to get around not having taunt but i think the tanker is limiting themselves without it especially as it comes with no endurance cost.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
When I see a Tank with no taunt, I weep. It is one of a Tanks aggro management tools and is just as important as the Tanks Aura. Far too many "new" Tanks don't bother with it now, and although they can still Tank, and in some cases Tank very well indeed, they are limiting themselves.
@Byrne
Debtmeister General of The Plastic Army & Empire
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When I see a Tank with no taunt, I weep. It is one of a Tanks aggro management tools and is just as important as the Tanks Aura. Far too many "new" Tanks don't bother with it now, and although they can still Tank, and in some cases Tank very well indeed, they are limiting themselves.
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totally agree, and after all, its only one power, wouldnt hurt to have it in there even if you dont want it all the time.
@EU Brimmy - Union and Exalted servers
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totally agree, and after all, its only one power, wouldnt hurt to have it in there even if you dont want it all the time.
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Thats the real rub for me. An auto hit power, rapid recharge, and zero end cost. How many great powers come with that?
And its one power - only one. Im sure most builds can fit that in by the mid 20s.
Its gonna spell the end of fire blasters this tauntless trend! If you see one, take a screen shot, cos they are endangered!
As I only have a pre-travel power tank at the moment, I have not currently got taunt yet, but I will. Perhaps the next power after travel but that's not written in stone (lol I'm a stone/axe just realized ).
I think that other taunt powers would possibly be sufficient for a tank to do its job. If tankers are fulfilling their role without taunt then good for them.
However I feel that some enemies heading to team mates without being pulled by other powers need to be attracted back to the tank and taunt seems to be the answer.
Of course as I mentioned, I do not have the real understanding of the tankers abilities as yet,still new to the archtype, but I think experience is the key as well as advice from the friends I have who play this archtype.
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totally agree, and after all, its only one power, wouldn't hurt to have it in there even if you don't want it all the time.
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That's the real rub for me. An auto hit power, rapid recharge, and zero end cost. How many great powers come with that?
And its one power - only one. I'm sure most builds can fit that in by the mid 20s.
Its gonna spell the end of fire blasters this tauntless trend! If you see one, take a screen shot, cos they are endangered!
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With my fire blaster I don't feel I can let rip with full power unless there is a tank with skill. Taunt, aura, whatever it's irrelevant. Lack of skill makes someone not a tank, NOT their power choices. I can tank a TF with with my aura or with just taunt and will have very few defeats. I could even do it with gauntlet alone if I'm allowed fire mastery.
My point is this...anyone who says taunt is needed (unless they are a granite tank) doesn't have a clue about tanking, I'm sorry but they don't. It is USEFUL but not needed.
Saying that I would always get taunt but my problem comes in that lots of people say get it asap or your "not a tank" I would rather wait till around mid 20's at least.
Make sure if you have taunt you put it in your search description. When I do I get iinvites much quicker!
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With my fire blaster I don't feel I can let rip with full power unless there is a tank with skill. Taunt, aura, whatever it's irrelevant. Lack of skill makes someone not a tank, NOT their power choices....
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The powers are the tools, using them correctly in combination with positioning and correct targetting is the skill. I have seen tanks with taunt who tank poorly and have seen tanks not use taunt who have tanked well. However a tank with no aura, no taunt and no attacks would be a poor tank whatever the skill of the player.
It isn't black and white however much people wish it to be. Personally I like having all the tools for the job, but would not particularly persecute a tank for not having taunt until I have seen them tank.
Despite this I would still recommend it as a great power.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
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taunt doesn't kill bad guys. Damage does.
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That's the most hilaryous thing I've ever read...
Damage kills stuff yeh?
Fireball -> aggro from the whole mob -> dead blaster -> no damage output.
Tankers and empath (as I assume that your h34al0rZ are the empaths) are just facilitator, both have a secondary powerset that can (unless they changed it while I wasn't lookin) _deal damage_, yes, you've seen well, they can deal damage!!
Back on topic: A tanker without taunt _can_ do his job if he's got an aura, but not without any aura.
Anyway a tanker with an aura _and_ taunt will do a much better job than a tanker without taunt.
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totally agree, and after all, its only one power, wouldn't hurt to have it in there even if you don't want it all the time.
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That's the real rub for me. An auto hit power, rapid recharge, and zero end cost. How many great powers come with that?
And its one power - only one. I'm sure most builds can fit that in by the mid 20s.
Its gonna spell the end of fire blasters this tauntless trend! If you see one, take a screen shot, cos they are endangered!
[/ QUOTE ]My point is this...anyone who says taunt is needed (unless they are a granite tank) doesn't have a clue about tanking
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Tankers without taunt are not upto much tanking mobs with a +2 or +3 AV in them and cant possibly achieve such a mob without a death involved or most likely a teamwipe (regardless of team make up - by that i mean no specific type of hero required but ok in i7 the whole team can pop lucks).
Scenario: Antimatter slaps his enervating field on the tanker but the tanker has to stay close to antimatter to keep aggro and affect the scrappers - cool (thats knowledge:P)
My point is this tankers without taunt are limited in their tanking skills. They can barely consolidate aggro of more than 10 foes.
After writing a post about unstoppable i cant see why taunt aint great to have with unstoppable, hibernate, rise of the phoenix and lack of recharge and mobility in granite. As taunt is the longest taunt duration power a tanker can offer and can help grant instant recovery at range with no endurance cost.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Well i have just came across this thread and would just like to make the point that "taunt" is limited, a tank can no longer keep large groups taunted even with both aura and taunt, if u have a group of 20 foes and u taunt another group the group u had will run off because 20 is the max a tank can keep taunted...now i have 2 lvl50 tanks, one with taunt and one without and tbh they both taunt the same and both hold the herds the same. Personally i thing its the way some people slot there auras, i always slot 2x acc,1x dam, and 3x taunt which works very well
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taunt doesn't kill bad guys. Damage does.
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That's the most hilaryous thing I've ever read...
Damage kills stuff yeh?
Fireball -> aggro from the whole mob -> dead blaster -> no damage output.
Tankers and empath (as I assume that your h34al0rZ are the empaths) are just facilitator, both have a secondary powerset that can (unless they changed it while I wasn't lookin) _deal damage_, yes, you've seen well, they can deal damage!!
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Well, duh. If you're stupid enough to fireball something you can't handle, of course you'll die. Don't assume we're all as bad as you when we play a blaster, though.
Fireball a taunted group => Blaster gets 10 out of 15 mobs because taunt hits only 5.
Fireball a group while tank is using aura and AoEs => nothing moves except maybe one or two guys at the edge of the group, everything dies faster.
Fireball a group while tank is using aura and spamming taunt => nothing moves, yet it takes 50% more time to kill the group.
Guess what, you might like #3, but I'd rather not be spoon fed and go faster.
My healers are healers, the dumb guys thinking heals are "1337" and writing like you did. Good defenders (btw, there's other defenders than empaths... sigh) debuff/buff and attack too, and debuff/buffs/attacks... (wait for it!) increase damage / damage ! Incredible, isn't it?
But that guy, with HA, HO, AP and RA, no attacks and 4 power pools at lvl 30, and calls himself a healer ? Yep, he's a healer alright. This kind of leech doesn't want to be called a defender, and doesn't deserve it in my eyes, so everyone is happy.
Oh well. Way to miss the point of my post and to take a quote out of context. Good job.
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totally agree, and after all, its only one power, wouldn't hurt to have it in there even if you don't want it all the time.
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That's the real rub for me. An auto hit power, rapid recharge, and zero end cost. How many great powers come with that?
And its one power - only one. I'm sure most builds can fit that in by the mid 20s.
Its gonna spell the end of fire blasters this tauntless trend! If you see one, take a screen shot, cos they are endangered!
[/ QUOTE ]My point is this...anyone who says taunt is needed (unless they are a granite tank) doesn't have a clue about tanking
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Tankers without taunt are not upto much tanking mobs with a +2 or +3 AV in them and cant possibly achieve such a mob without a death involved or most likely a teamwipe (regardless of team make up - by that i mean no specific type of hero required but ok in i7 the whole team can pop lucks).
Scenario: Antimatter slaps his enervating field on the tanker but the tanker has to stay close to antimatter to keep aggro and affect the scrappers - cool (thats knowledge:P)
My point is this tankers without taunt are limited in their tanking skills. They can barely consolidate aggro of more than 10 foes.
After writing a post about unstoppable i cant see why taunt aint great to have with unstoppable, hibernate, rise of the phoenix and lack of recharge and mobility in granite. As taunt is the longest taunt duration power a tanker can offer and can help grant instant recovery at range with no endurance cost.
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Antimatter is a lvl 43+ AV, by lvl 41 any tanker has access to ranged powers in the EPP's.
... anyway, I don't see what's the big deal with his EF. I guess I could stay at range and use only fireblast, but why? The only thing hitting the scrappers is Irradiate, which is DR and isn't strong enough to kill a scrapper.
Btw, auras can aggro up to 17 bad guys, not 10. I think what you're seeing is people slotting only one ACC, or don't slot at all, since they don't see the "miss" message ; so they miss 30% of the time against red/purples and don't hold aggro.
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My point is this...anyone who says taunt is needed (unless they are a granite tank) doesn't have a clue about tanking, I'm sorry but they don't. It is USEFUL but not needed.
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Well I have stone/stone tank (19 atm) and took Taunt at level 10 because it WAS needed. The reason being even with 2 accuracy enhs in each of my attacks they were missing enough to make holding aggro with just Gauntlet problematic. Throw the movement penalty from rooted into the equation, and a ranged, auto-hit aggro grabbing power really shines. I haven't take Mudpots yet because of the end cost (will be picking it up at 22 after I get Stamina) but I definitely won't be dropping Taunt even when I do.
The question really should be "Is a Tank who can't hold aggro still a Tank?". My answer would be no. As for Taunt? Well it's a personal decision. In my case I think it was needed (maybe that means I don't have a clue about tanking. I don't know, you'd have to ask the people I've teamed with ). But since the Tank's role is to maintain aggro on themselves and mitigate damage to the rest of the team I don't see the point in not taking one of the three tools we are given to perform our primary role. To quote AvP (yes, I did actually watch it 
)...
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It's the same principle as a condom. I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
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My tanker is lvl 15 and only has mudpots, that'll do for now IMO but he will be picking taunt up at lvl 22. I think the tank can get away without taunt and do the job very well untill he meets an AV or elite boss, a taunt aura will not hold the agro from one of these and if you got scrappers on the team they need the tank to be taking every hit not just most of them. The tankers job is to hold agro, therefore he must be able to forfill that role in every mission. If I was leading a team and we had 1 tank without taunt I would be happy to let him do his thing untill we got an AV mish, then I would have the search screen up again looking for another tank to help him.
Taunt is useful because of its little recognised secondary effects. Taunt immediately creates polarised opinions on its utility and has a powerful distraction effect making forum users post for hours and hours on wether a tank can be a tank without taunt.